GarryP

Don't you?

Silent hunter-killers tends to dissuade aircraft carriers, such as might be useful for seaborne assault...

chris955

No I dont, who are they protecting themselves against? China, really? The own most of the country anyway, why invade

GarryP

"As a result of the US embargo, we are nationalising all Chinese assets in Australia"

The point of defence assets are to guard against everything you can possibly foresee happening. China, or other nations, getting a taste for resources in a hostile environment are well within the envelope of the planning horizons (50 years).

chris955

I dont know where that quote came from?
Well assuming Australia is protecting itself from something wouldnt it be better to do it with submarines that are capable of going underwater

GarryP

I sometimes think the only bit of government that does long term planning is defence. Everything else seems to have a 5 year planning horizon, but defence has to be 50 years, and as such it thinks like a chess master.

And Collins, whilst not as good as it should have been, is better than you give it credit for.

chris955

Well I suppose the F1-11s went for about 50 years so maybe you are right

paulry

'Would love to know the details. I had an XR3 - it was a part of so many exciting adventures , did some crazy things with it too

Hino

Like the much vaunted British 'T' class ?

They were great at going under water, the only problem they had was getting back to the surface.



This one was so good at sinking that it managed to do it twice.

Now you were saying about Australian submarines ? ...

Hino

Actually I thought that the Poms still "owned" a big chunk of Australia.

Though we don't waste time defending ourselves against them.....most of them don't stick around too long

chris955

You are comparing 1930's technology, got anymore straws to clutch at?

Swerv-o

Strategically, Submarines are a sensible option for Australia, as they allow significantly more stealthy operations than surface units.

What isn't sensible is feeling the need to design submarines from the bottom up when there are perfectly acceptable off the shelf models available from Germany and Spain. The German Dolphin is a tried and tested model that has performed well operationally, with a modified version adopted by the Israeli navy.

Ideally, the real problem hat Australia has is trying to patrol such a huge sea are with diesel electric subs - they simply can't provide the longevity at sea that we need. The US has offered to lease us Virginia class boats on reasonable terms, and even offered to deal with the spent fuel after the lease period has finished, yet the governments of both flavour seem hell bent on this home spun Collins 2 solution, at a cost of tens of billions of dollars extra, over an existing solution that is available now, or within a short space of time.


S

chris955

They probably arent suitable for Australian conditions

Who exactly are Australia defending themselves against though? If China wanted to invade they wouldnt have a chance, I dont know who else would even be a remote chance of invading.

Hino

Certainly have my little expert on all things Australian

All you ever need to do is ask

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-failures.html

State of the art, cutting edge, as good as it gets 2012 UK technology.

Is that recent enough for you ?

Swerv-o

Personally, I think that Indonesia rates as a greater threat in the medium to long term than China - they have been driving a significant military spend over the last decade, and is finally starting to emerge as a major regional power - one that may eventually challenge Australia's position as regional superpower.

Indo's military focus is definitely shifting, from essentially a huge internal police force to something that is able to project significantly more power about the region. SBY last year was quoted as saying that Indonesia needed to become more powerful militarily than its neighbours, and its recent military purchases betray this push. Buying stacks of SU-30 and SU-35s aircaft, giving Indonesia a very powerful air presence indeed.

Additionally, we also need to be seen to be a good neighbour - one that will come galloping to the rescue is the Chinese do start expanding through Asia. This won't be taken seriously with the Collins - we're lucky if we can keep one out on patrol at any time - despite their reasonably good record in exercises, their maintenance, reliability and staffing issues make them something of a white elephant.


S

Hino

Here another "straw" for you....

These submarines are so unsafe, that the crew mutiny rather than sail in them and they are not even allowed to enter UK commercial ports.

( Long since banned from visiting foreign ports ).

http://www.disarmsecure.org/publicat...Submarines.php

Jeeze mate. As a mere colonial I can only gaze in wonderment at the advanced state of your countries technology.

I hope you have a palliass cover at home, you'll soon have enough 'straws' for a bloody mattress