Holden to pull out of Australia
#136
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
The second statement is like someone losing their job and saying 'oh well it wasnt a very good job anyway, who needs it ?' I dont recall anyone saying you cant be prosperous without a car manufacturing industry but to have one and totally lose it within a couple of years is not good.
The point is that the Unions are destroying manufacturing. When Toyota negotiated with the Unions to try and change things for the better the Unions said no and that basically the car maker was just trying to call their bluff. Well we all know how that worked out.
The day after Australia Day apparently more than 20% of the Toyota workforce were 'sick'. This was supposed to have been the straw that broke the camels back.
The point is that the Unions are destroying manufacturing. When Toyota negotiated with the Unions to try and change things for the better the Unions said no and that basically the car maker was just trying to call their bluff. Well we all know how that worked out.
The day after Australia Day apparently more than 20% of the Toyota workforce were 'sick'. This was supposed to have been the straw that broke the camels back.
The Oz economy has been there and done that. When protected industries were let go.
#139
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-1...turing/5254334
So it's no good repeating coalition talking points - they've been pointed up as liars on the matter several times now.
The key issue appears to be the exchange rate - who would have thought that a 40% worsening in exchange rate would have mattered so much .....
So it's no good repeating coalition talking points - they've been pointed up as liars on the matter several times now.
The key issue appears to be the exchange rate - who would have thought that a 40% worsening in exchange rate would have mattered so much .....
#140
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
#141
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
#142
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 241
Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
The second statement is like someone losing their job and saying 'oh well it wasnt a very good job anyway, who needs it ?' I dont recall anyone saying you cant be prosperous without a car manufacturing industry but to have one and totally lose it within a couple of years is not good.
The point is that the Unions are destroying manufacturing. When Toyota negotiated with the Unions to try and change things for the better the Unions said no and that basically the car maker was just trying to call their bluff. Well we all know how that worked out.
The day after Australia Day apparently more than 20% of the Toyota workforce were 'sick'. This was supposed to have been the straw that broke the camels back.
The point is that the Unions are destroying manufacturing. When Toyota negotiated with the Unions to try and change things for the better the Unions said no and that basically the car maker was just trying to call their bluff. Well we all know how that worked out.
The day after Australia Day apparently more than 20% of the Toyota workforce were 'sick'. This was supposed to have been the straw that broke the camels back.
By the way,remember how the CEO/GM of Holden convinced his workers to negate their MUTUALLY AGREED CONTRACT(EBA) by Promising them Holden would stay operational in Australia????????
Why did he award himself a BIG Bonus when the Nuff Nuffs at Holden agreed to forgo their Redundancy payments in lieu of future employ???And then before the ink was even dry he terminated them on the spot with a pittance of a few coins?And you expected Toyota employees to accept the same??
Why is there this fervant push to have Australia a Thirld World Basket case of indetured slaves?
Cheap wages sure helped South Africa?
I see New Zealand as an economic Powerhouse today,,,,,,,,
Blaming the Unions,so pathetic and immature and patronising.
#143
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Soooo the Nirvana of peaceful living with negligible crime and social problems is solved by paying slave wages???
OOHHHHH thats right,South Africa has all their people escaping here---why is that???
WOW-How I wish for Australia too have JoBurg issues of incredible Toyota Corollas being built-with associated rewards!!!!!
#144
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
You are the only one talking about slave wages for whatever reason. If wages make a company uncompetitive then the company disappears, it aint rocket science.
I saw some comments from Toyota workers and even some of them were brave enough to lay the blame at the foot of the Unions.
I saw some comments from Toyota workers and even some of them were brave enough to lay the blame at the foot of the Unions.
#145
Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
You are the only one talking about slave wages for whatever reason. If wages make a company uncompetitive then the company disappears, it aint rocket science.
I saw some comments from Toyota workers and even some of them were brave enough to lay the blame at the foot of the Unions.
I saw some comments from Toyota workers and even some of them were brave enough to lay the blame at the foot of the Unions.
#146
Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
The key point is that thanks to government policy, the exchange rate has gone out of whack - making the same car, manufactured by the same people, earning the same wage, ~60% more expensive overseas. THAT's what changed - and if you want to lay blame, then you do so at the foot of the bankers and treasury.
I know it's far right orthodoxy to simply blame the workers. It's easy, requires no thought, etc. Problem is, it's NOT the root of the problem and it's not backed by fact. Even looking simply at productivity, it's not the workers fault - the manpower productivity has been steadily rising - instead it's capital productivity, the investment, that's been falling.
Strategically you can't cut australian wages to the level of SE Asia, and neither should you want to. At the same time, you need a working manufacturing sector, or at least SOME sector that's not resources that works. It's a failure of strategic foresight, understanding, and financial nous in government that's to blame. Abbott doesn't know why it should be kept, and how it fits together to work - so it falls through his fingers, and in 20 years people will be looking back and cursing the lack of foresight, same as they did to maggie.
#147
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Not so much the individual workers but the Unions have pushed for unrealistic demands and conditions and it has been happening for years. We had a friend in Geelong who worked/works at the Shell Refinery, they had an incredibly militant union. One day I remember him gleefully telling us about how they went on strike because they had to walk between jobs when it was raining and they demanded and got a wet weather allowance. I'm not talking about working in the rain, just walking from one place to the other.
No-one is saying Australian workers should work for SE Asian wages, workers here or in Germany or France dont work for SE Asian wages but in this country they produced 1.5 million cars last year and investment is increasing and they are increasing employment in the sector.
As you say something is needed to replace the resources sector or to take up the slack from the slowdown, if it isnt manufacturing then what is it going to be ?
No-one is saying Australian workers should work for SE Asian wages, workers here or in Germany or France dont work for SE Asian wages but in this country they produced 1.5 million cars last year and investment is increasing and they are increasing employment in the sector.
As you say something is needed to replace the resources sector or to take up the slack from the slowdown, if it isnt manufacturing then what is it going to be ?
Hang on, that's just trying to blame the workers, again.
The key point is that thanks to government policy, the exchange rate has gone out of whack - making the same car, manufactured by the same people, earning the same wage, ~60% more expensive overseas. THAT's what changed - and if you want to lay blame, then you do so at the foot of the bankers and treasury.
I know it's far right orthodoxy to simply blame the workers. It's easy, requires no thought, etc. Problem is, it's NOT the root of the problem and it's not backed by fact. Even looking simply at productivity, it's not the workers fault - the manpower productivity has been steadily rising - instead it's capital productivity, the investment, that's been falling.
Strategically you can't cut australian wages to the level of SE Asia, and neither should you want to. At the same time, you need a working manufacturing sector, or at least SOME sector that's not resources that works. It's a failure of strategic foresight, understanding, and financial nous in government that's to blame. Abbott doesn't know why it should be kept, and how it fits together to work - so it falls through his fingers, and in 20 years people will be looking back and cursing the lack of foresight, same as they did to maggie.
The key point is that thanks to government policy, the exchange rate has gone out of whack - making the same car, manufactured by the same people, earning the same wage, ~60% more expensive overseas. THAT's what changed - and if you want to lay blame, then you do so at the foot of the bankers and treasury.
I know it's far right orthodoxy to simply blame the workers. It's easy, requires no thought, etc. Problem is, it's NOT the root of the problem and it's not backed by fact. Even looking simply at productivity, it's not the workers fault - the manpower productivity has been steadily rising - instead it's capital productivity, the investment, that's been falling.
Strategically you can't cut australian wages to the level of SE Asia, and neither should you want to. At the same time, you need a working manufacturing sector, or at least SOME sector that's not resources that works. It's a failure of strategic foresight, understanding, and financial nous in government that's to blame. Abbott doesn't know why it should be kept, and how it fits together to work - so it falls through his fingers, and in 20 years people will be looking back and cursing the lack of foresight, same as they did to maggie.
#148
Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Not so much the individual workers but the Unions have pushed for unrealistic demands and conditions and it has been happening for years. We had a friend in Geelong who worked/works at the Shell Refinery, they had an incredibly militant union. One day I remember him gleefully telling us about how they went on strike because they had to walk between jobs when it was raining and they demanded and got a wet weather allowance. I'm not talking about working in the rain, just walking from one place to the other.
No-one is saying Australian workers should work for SE Asian wages, workers here or in Germany or France dont work for SE Asian wages but in this country they produced 1.5 million cars last year and investment is increasing and they are increasing employment in the sector.
As you say something is needed to replace the resources sector or to take up the slack from the slowdown, if it isnt manufacturing then what is it going to be ?
No-one is saying Australian workers should work for SE Asian wages, workers here or in Germany or France dont work for SE Asian wages but in this country they produced 1.5 million cars last year and investment is increasing and they are increasing employment in the sector.
As you say something is needed to replace the resources sector or to take up the slack from the slowdown, if it isnt manufacturing then what is it going to be ?
At heart, we have poor, amateurish government; with poor, bad, macho management; disconnected from the real world and the global drivers upon them - and compounded by an exceptionalism bent. There's a reason you only see crassly poor online sales attempts, almost complete lack of customer focus, and 'australian made for australian conditions'.
I consider that it's root is piss-poor strategic vision. They don't know which way they are going, why, and thus don't know who needs to be hit about the head with a baseball bat to get them out of the way. Professional politicians who get ahead by lying and don't have, or have to have, a sane plan or vision.
Institutionally corrupt and not fit for purpose.
#149
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
But you can always point to anecdote - trying to justify things by something the friend of a friend said. However, if it's not the root of the problem, then it's not the root of the problem.
At heart, we have poor, amateurish government; with poor, bad, macho management; disconnected from the real world and the global drivers upon them - and compounded by an exceptionalism bent. There's a reason you only see crassly poor online sales attempts, almost complete lack of customer focus, and 'australian made for australian conditions'.
I consider that it's root is piss-poor strategic vision. They don't know which way they are going, why, and thus don't know who needs to be hit about the head with a baseball bat to get them out of the way. Professional politicians who get ahead by lying and don't have, or have to have, a sane plan or vision.
Institutionally corrupt and not fit for purpose.
At heart, we have poor, amateurish government; with poor, bad, macho management; disconnected from the real world and the global drivers upon them - and compounded by an exceptionalism bent. There's a reason you only see crassly poor online sales attempts, almost complete lack of customer focus, and 'australian made for australian conditions'.
I consider that it's root is piss-poor strategic vision. They don't know which way they are going, why, and thus don't know who needs to be hit about the head with a baseball bat to get them out of the way. Professional politicians who get ahead by lying and don't have, or have to have, a sane plan or vision.
Institutionally corrupt and not fit for purpose.
#150
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 218
Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
good riddance motor workers unions.