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Holden to pull out of Australia

Holden to pull out of Australia

Old Feb 12th 2014, 1:10 am
  #136  
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by chris955
The second statement is like someone losing their job and saying 'oh well it wasnt a very good job anyway, who needs it ?' I dont recall anyone saying you cant be prosperous without a car manufacturing industry but to have one and totally lose it within a couple of years is not good.
The point is that the Unions are destroying manufacturing. When Toyota negotiated with the Unions to try and change things for the better the Unions said no and that basically the car maker was just trying to call their bluff. Well we all know how that worked out.
The day after Australia Day apparently more than 20% of the Toyota workforce were 'sick'. This was supposed to have been the straw that broke the camels back.
5 years from now you can ask these people: how's your new job?

The Oz economy has been there and done that. When protected industries were let go.
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 2:03 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by berserk
5 years from now you can ask these people: how's your new job?

The Oz economy has been there and done that. When protected industries were let go.
Spot on

Another advantage will be broken unions
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 6:06 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Meanwhile, in South Africa....
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 7:06 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by GarryP
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-1...turing/5254334

So it's no good repeating coalition talking points - they've been pointed up as liars on the matter several times now.

The key issue appears to be the exchange rate - who would have thought that a 40% worsening in exchange rate would have mattered so much .....
Yes it would be wrong to place all the blame at the feet of the union, the key factor seems to the excessive costs involved in manufacturing a car and much of that is down to pay and conditions. That isnt rocket science.
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 7:06 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by berserk
5 years from now you can ask these people: how's your new job?

The Oz economy has been there and done that. When protected industries were let go.
Of course, they will probably say the new job is fine but they miss they money from Toyota.
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 7:08 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by paulry
Thats what happens when you can make a product for reasonable money.
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 7:28 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by chris955
The second statement is like someone losing their job and saying 'oh well it wasnt a very good job anyway, who needs it ?' I dont recall anyone saying you cant be prosperous without a car manufacturing industry but to have one and totally lose it within a couple of years is not good.
The point is that the Unions are destroying manufacturing. When Toyota negotiated with the Unions to try and change things for the better the Unions said no and that basically the car maker was just trying to call their bluff. Well we all know how that worked out.
The day after Australia Day apparently more than 20% of the Toyota workforce were 'sick'. This was supposed to have been the straw that broke the camels back.
Mmmmmmmmmm,so the concept of EBA(Enterprise Bargaining Agreement) has swung the other way,They are Mutually agreed CONTRACTS,but why let the Law cover up inept Business?

By the way,remember how the CEO/GM of Holden convinced his workers to negate their MUTUALLY AGREED CONTRACT(EBA) by Promising them Holden would stay operational in Australia????????
Why did he award himself a BIG Bonus when the Nuff Nuffs at Holden agreed to forgo their Redundancy payments in lieu of future employ???And then before the ink was even dry he terminated them on the spot with a pittance of a few coins?And you expected Toyota employees to accept the same??

Why is there this fervant push to have Australia a Thirld World Basket case of indetured slaves?

Cheap wages sure helped South Africa?

I see New Zealand as an economic Powerhouse today,,,,,,,,

Blaming the Unions,so pathetic and immature and patronising.
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 7:32 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by chris955
Thats what happens when you can make a product for reasonable money.

Soooo the Nirvana of peaceful living with negligible crime and social problems is solved by paying slave wages???

OOHHHHH thats right,South Africa has all their people escaping here---why is that???

WOW-How I wish for Australia too have JoBurg issues of incredible Toyota Corollas being built-with associated rewards!!!!!
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 7:56 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

You are the only one talking about slave wages for whatever reason. If wages make a company uncompetitive then the company disappears, it aint rocket science.
I saw some comments from Toyota workers and even some of them were brave enough to lay the blame at the foot of the Unions.
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 8:16 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by chris955
You are the only one talking about slave wages for whatever reason. If wages make a company uncompetitive then the company disappears, it aint rocket science.
I saw some comments from Toyota workers and even some of them were brave enough to lay the blame at the foot of the Unions.
I know it's impossible for you to post anything negative about the UK but I thought that even you might have mentioned the 7000 UK job losses at Barclays - just for the sake of balance
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 8:18 am
  #146  
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by chris955
Yes it would be wrong to place all the blame at the feet of the union, the key factor seems to the excessive costs involved in manufacturing a car and much of that is down to pay and conditions. That isnt rocket science.
Hang on, that's just trying to blame the workers, again.

The key point is that thanks to government policy, the exchange rate has gone out of whack - making the same car, manufactured by the same people, earning the same wage, ~60% more expensive overseas. THAT's what changed - and if you want to lay blame, then you do so at the foot of the bankers and treasury.

I know it's far right orthodoxy to simply blame the workers. It's easy, requires no thought, etc. Problem is, it's NOT the root of the problem and it's not backed by fact. Even looking simply at productivity, it's not the workers fault - the manpower productivity has been steadily rising - instead it's capital productivity, the investment, that's been falling.

Strategically you can't cut australian wages to the level of SE Asia, and neither should you want to. At the same time, you need a working manufacturing sector, or at least SOME sector that's not resources that works. It's a failure of strategic foresight, understanding, and financial nous in government that's to blame. Abbott doesn't know why it should be kept, and how it fits together to work - so it falls through his fingers, and in 20 years people will be looking back and cursing the lack of foresight, same as they did to maggie.
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 8:33 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Not so much the individual workers but the Unions have pushed for unrealistic demands and conditions and it has been happening for years. We had a friend in Geelong who worked/works at the Shell Refinery, they had an incredibly militant union. One day I remember him gleefully telling us about how they went on strike because they had to walk between jobs when it was raining and they demanded and got a wet weather allowance. I'm not talking about working in the rain, just walking from one place to the other.
No-one is saying Australian workers should work for SE Asian wages, workers here or in Germany or France dont work for SE Asian wages but in this country they produced 1.5 million cars last year and investment is increasing and they are increasing employment in the sector.
As you say something is needed to replace the resources sector or to take up the slack from the slowdown, if it isnt manufacturing then what is it going to be ?

Originally Posted by GarryP
Hang on, that's just trying to blame the workers, again.

The key point is that thanks to government policy, the exchange rate has gone out of whack - making the same car, manufactured by the same people, earning the same wage, ~60% more expensive overseas. THAT's what changed - and if you want to lay blame, then you do so at the foot of the bankers and treasury.

I know it's far right orthodoxy to simply blame the workers. It's easy, requires no thought, etc. Problem is, it's NOT the root of the problem and it's not backed by fact. Even looking simply at productivity, it's not the workers fault - the manpower productivity has been steadily rising - instead it's capital productivity, the investment, that's been falling.

Strategically you can't cut australian wages to the level of SE Asia, and neither should you want to. At the same time, you need a working manufacturing sector, or at least SOME sector that's not resources that works. It's a failure of strategic foresight, understanding, and financial nous in government that's to blame. Abbott doesn't know why it should be kept, and how it fits together to work - so it falls through his fingers, and in 20 years people will be looking back and cursing the lack of foresight, same as they did to maggie.
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 8:55 am
  #148  
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by chris955
Not so much the individual workers but the Unions have pushed for unrealistic demands and conditions and it has been happening for years. We had a friend in Geelong who worked/works at the Shell Refinery, they had an incredibly militant union. One day I remember him gleefully telling us about how they went on strike because they had to walk between jobs when it was raining and they demanded and got a wet weather allowance. I'm not talking about working in the rain, just walking from one place to the other.
No-one is saying Australian workers should work for SE Asian wages, workers here or in Germany or France dont work for SE Asian wages but in this country they produced 1.5 million cars last year and investment is increasing and they are increasing employment in the sector.
As you say something is needed to replace the resources sector or to take up the slack from the slowdown, if it isnt manufacturing then what is it going to be ?
But you can always point to anecdote - trying to justify things by something the friend of a friend said. However, if it's not the root of the problem, then it's not the root of the problem.

At heart, we have poor, amateurish government; with poor, bad, macho management; disconnected from the real world and the global drivers upon them - and compounded by an exceptionalism bent. There's a reason you only see crassly poor online sales attempts, almost complete lack of customer focus, and 'australian made for australian conditions'.

I consider that it's root is piss-poor strategic vision. They don't know which way they are going, why, and thus don't know who needs to be hit about the head with a baseball bat to get them out of the way. Professional politicians who get ahead by lying and don't have, or have to have, a sane plan or vision.

Institutionally corrupt and not fit for purpose.
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 9:04 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

Originally Posted by GarryP
But you can always point to anecdote - trying to justify things by something the friend of a friend said. However, if it's not the root of the problem, then it's not the root of the problem.

At heart, we have poor, amateurish government; with poor, bad, macho management; disconnected from the real world and the global drivers upon them - and compounded by an exceptionalism bent. There's a reason you only see crassly poor online sales attempts, almost complete lack of customer focus, and 'australian made for australian conditions'.

I consider that it's root is piss-poor strategic vision. They don't know which way they are going, why, and thus don't know who needs to be hit about the head with a baseball bat to get them out of the way. Professional politicians who get ahead by lying and don't have, or have to have, a sane plan or vision.

Institutionally corrupt and not fit for purpose.
Yes, I agree.
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Old Feb 12th 2014, 11:40 am
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Default Re: Holden to pull out of Australia

good riddance motor workers unions.
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