Have you been jabbed?
Aug 3rd 2021, 5:18 am
#92
destination Cairns
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,839
Re: Have you been jabbed?
Got my 2nd Pfizer one last Saturday, no side effects of the jab, so yay. Maybe, just maybe, I can hug mu mum again, after it has done it’s thing 🥰.
Aug 3rd 2021, 5:20 am
#93
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
Re: Have you been jabbed?
60pct of the Covid hospitalizations in Wales currently are amongst the double vaccinated and they are reporting between 1 and 3 deaths per day... Hard to get proper figures on this. I do have heresay correlation from various hospitals in London... No official figures yet. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www....h-21204579.amp
Aug 3rd 2021, 5:33 am
#94
Concierge
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 20,901
Re: Have you been jabbed?
Just got my first AZ shot 
Aug 3rd 2021, 5:41 am
#95
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,039
Re: Have you been jabbed?
60pct of the Covid hospitalizations in Wales currently are amongst the double vaccinated and they are reporting between 1 and 3 deaths per day... Hard to get proper figures on this. I do have heresay correlation from various hospitals in London... No official figures yet. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www....h-21204579.amp
To put that in perspective, Sydney is having a bit over 200 new cases per day and there are 250 people in hospital.
I think its pretty clear, good vaccination numbers, like the 75% of the adult population is Wales is better than the 20% Sydney has right now in stopping the severity of the illness.
Aug 3rd 2021, 8:30 am
#96
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
Re: Have you been jabbed?
Around the date the article cites, Wales was having about 1000 new cases per day and there were about 167 inpatients in hospital.
To put that in perspective, Sydney is having a bit over 200 new cases per day and there are 250 people in hospital.
I think its pretty clear, good vaccination numbers, like the 75% of the adult population is Wales is better than the 20% Sydney has right now in stopping the severity of the illness.
To put that in perspective, Sydney is having a bit over 200 new cases per day and there are 250 people in hospital.
I think its pretty clear, good vaccination numbers, like the 75% of the adult population is Wales is better than the 20% Sydney has right now in stopping the severity of the illness.
Correct... It reduces the risk by what looks like 1000pct...however it certainly does not eliminate mortality like people seem to be anticipating. It's going to be interesting how WA for example reacts when and if they start to get deaths amongst the elderly double vaccinated
. Late last week St Helier hospitals ICU was full to capacity with double vaccinated patients and patients were being transported to other London hospitals.
Last edited by ozzieeagle; Aug 3rd 2021 at 8:42 am.
Aug 3rd 2021, 9:42 am
#97
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,039
Re: Have you been jabbed?
Aug 3rd 2021, 2:31 pm
#98
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 71,708
Re: Have you been jabbed?
If you are pro vaxx thats ok with me. But try to keep a sense of perspective here.
I'm not anti vaxx in general as such either, particularly for serious disease, and where it works.
My two major objections are:
1) I have never believed in vaxxing against flu (or over medication in general). I'm not convinced this isn't just another flu blown out of proportion (many seem to forget how bad the flu can be).
2) This vaxx due to being rushed has a lot of problems and is setting dangerous precedents:-
Vaxx a) shouldn't kill people and b) shouldn't maim people and c) should provide inoculation.
We can see this is not currently the case.
We also have to wonder how far this will go - monthly top up jabs? Perhaps.
Forcing/coercing people to take dubious experimental medical procedures seems wrong to me, and unthinkable to most a couple years back.
Yet here we are.
I'm not anti vaxx in general as such either, particularly for serious disease, and where it works.
My two major objections are:
1) I have never believed in vaxxing against flu (or over medication in general). I'm not convinced this isn't just another flu blown out of proportion (many seem to forget how bad the flu can be).
2) This vaxx due to being rushed has a lot of problems and is setting dangerous precedents:-
Vaxx a) shouldn't kill people and b) shouldn't maim people and c) should provide inoculation.
We can see this is not currently the case.
We also have to wonder how far this will go - monthly top up jabs? Perhaps.
Forcing/coercing people to take dubious experimental medical procedures seems wrong to me, and unthinkable to most a couple years back.
Yet here we are.
I suppose I don't "believe" in vaccinations at all. I am in favour of using science and medicine to improve the human experience. There is zero benefit to getting flu. It kills a lot of people, the more vulnerable usually, but not always (see post WW1 flu epidemic), but there isn't any benefit to getting it at any age. Still less is there any benefit to getting the far more dangerous Covid 19. The idea of "building up your own immune system" doesn't really apply to vaccines, I don't think, because that is exactly what vaccination does - stimulate your own immune system to recognise and successfully attack and kill an invader, rather than succumbing to it and having the invader kill you. Both illness and vaccination produce antibodies in your very own system in the same way. Vaccinations can be better at it than our immune systems because they give us extra firepower, if you like, since all vaccines are based on the precise nature of the invading virus (and we don't have to get ill in order for them to work). It is our collective responsibility to get vaccinated, not just to protect the vulnerable now but to protect us all later - vaccine-evading variants of Covid evolve in pools of unvaccinated people because they are the ones providing the breeding grounds. Too be sure the vaccines do not (yet) provide a 100% level of protection, but it seems a bit odd to choose the huge risk of getting Covid while unvaccinated over the tiny risk of getting Covid while vaccinated.
Note that this is not at all the same as over-administration of antibiotic which is, of course, anti-bacterial (by definition) and not anti-viral. They act on the invading bacteria, not on your immune system. This is where the "building up your own immune system" has validity, and where it is absolutely possible to "overuse medicine" since the use of antibiotic where it's not really called for allows the invading bacteria to adapt to it and so the antibiotic becomes less effective for everyone over time (whether they took antibiotics before or not). So it is our collective responsibility to not overuse antibiotic where our own systems could fight off the invading bacteria alone.
The Covid vaccines were certainly developed much faster than normal, due to the emergency (vast numbers of people dying from Covid). However, they did all go through the same stages of testing that a vaccine would normally go through, only faster. So all we are lacking is the longer-term view. Imo, this is an easy calculated risk to take - millions of deaths have been prevented, as will millions more. There are very few meds/drugs/interventions/procedures that are completely risk free, but as far as I know all the risks associated with any of the vaccines are far lower than the risk associated with getting Covid. The blood clot problem with AZ, for example, is a far, far lower risk than the risk of getting blood clots from Covid.
If you define a vaccine as a "dubious experimental procedure" from the outset, then you are not open to evidence to the contrary. It is the classic example of "begging the question", where you state as a given in your premise that which your argument is supposed to prove.
Last edited by Lion in Winter; Aug 3rd 2021 at 2:40 pm.
Aug 4th 2021, 2:59 am
#100
A modern day warrior
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Here and there...currently here.
Posts: 344
Re: Have you been jabbed?
If you are pro vaxx thats ok with me. But try to keep a sense of perspective here.
I'm not anti vaxx in general as such either, particularly for serious disease, and where it works.
My two major objections are:
1) I have never believed in vaxxing against flu (or over medication in general). I'm not convinced this isn't just another flu blown out of proportion (many seem to forget how bad the flu can be).
2) This vaxx due to being rushed has a lot of problems and is setting dangerous precedents:-
Vaxx a) shouldn't kill people and b) shouldn't maim people and c) should provide inoculation.
We can see this is not currently the case.
We also have to wonder how far this will go - monthly top up jabs? Perhaps.
Forcing/coercing people to take dubious experimental medical procedures seems wrong to me, and unthinkable to most a couple years back.
Yet here we are.
I'm not anti vaxx in general as such either, particularly for serious disease, and where it works.
My two major objections are:
1) I have never believed in vaxxing against flu (or over medication in general). I'm not convinced this isn't just another flu blown out of proportion (many seem to forget how bad the flu can be).
2) This vaxx due to being rushed has a lot of problems and is setting dangerous precedents:-
Vaxx a) shouldn't kill people and b) shouldn't maim people and c) should provide inoculation.
We can see this is not currently the case.
We also have to wonder how far this will go - monthly top up jabs? Perhaps.
Forcing/coercing people to take dubious experimental medical procedures seems wrong to me, and unthinkable to most a couple years back.
Yet here we are.
Vaccine technology has been around years - even mNRH technology is not new. The Pfizer jab just happens to be the first new tech jab on the market. Vaccines have eradicated (or close to) many illnesses that were lethal or highly debilitating. Good job your forebears weren't so reticent about vaccines for
- Cervical cancer
- Cholera
- COVID-19
- Diphtheria
- Hepatitis B
- Influenza
- Japanese encephalitis
- Measles
- Meningitis
- Mumps
- Pertussis
- Pneumonia
- Polio
- Rabies
- Rotavirus
- Rubella
- Tetanus
- Typhoid
- Varicella
- Yellow fever
Aug 4th 2021, 11:56 pm
#101
Where traffic lights rule
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Brighton QLD
Posts: 2,459
Re: Have you been jabbed?
But apart from curing
- Cervical cancer
- Cholera
- COVID-19
- Diphtheria
- Hepatitis B
- Influenza
- Japanese encephalitis
- Measles
- Meningitis
- Mumps
- Pertussis
- Pneumonia
- Polio
- Rabies
- Rotavirus
- Rubella
- Tetanus
- Typhoid
- Varicella
- Yellow fever
Aug 5th 2021, 12:51 am
#102
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2018
Location: ACT
Posts: 238
Re: Have you been jabbed?
If you are pro vaxx thats ok with me. But try to keep a sense of perspective here.
I'm not anti vaxx in general as such either, particularly for serious disease, and where it works.
My two major objections are:
1) I have never believed in vaxxing against flu (or over medication in general). I'm not convinced this isn't just another flu blown out of proportion (many seem to forget how bad the flu can be).
2) This vaxx due to being rushed has a lot of problems and is setting dangerous precedents:-
Vaxx a) shouldn't kill people and b) shouldn't maim people and c) should provide inoculation.
We can see this is not currently the case.
We also have to wonder how far this will go - monthly top up jabs? Perhaps.
Forcing/coercing people to take dubious experimental medical procedures seems wrong to me, and unthinkable to most a couple years back.
Yet here we are.
I'm not anti vaxx in general as such either, particularly for serious disease, and where it works.
My two major objections are:
1) I have never believed in vaxxing against flu (or over medication in general). I'm not convinced this isn't just another flu blown out of proportion (many seem to forget how bad the flu can be).
2) This vaxx due to being rushed has a lot of problems and is setting dangerous precedents:-
Vaxx a) shouldn't kill people and b) shouldn't maim people and c) should provide inoculation.
We can see this is not currently the case.
We also have to wonder how far this will go - monthly top up jabs? Perhaps.
Forcing/coercing people to take dubious experimental medical procedures seems wrong to me, and unthinkable to most a couple years back.
Yet here we are.
Aug 7th 2021, 3:03 pm
#103
Mostly Harmless
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Semi-rural wonderworld, Brisbane
Posts: 15,109
Re: Have you been jabbed?
I’m not submitting myself to experimental gene therapy,
I may well have made my last overseas trip or seen my last live gig but so be it.
Vaccine passports are the next on the agenda and **** that.
QLD isn’t a bad place to be left isolated.
I may well have made my last overseas trip or seen my last live gig but so be it.
Vaccine passports are the next on the agenda and **** that.
QLD isn’t a bad place to be left isolated.
Aug 8th 2021, 3:27 am
#105
MODERATOR
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 29,582
Re: Have you been jabbed?
An mRNA vaccine is not gene therapy, and I suspect you know this. If this concerns you though, AZ is a viral vector type vaccine, and this type is a well established technology that cannot be classed 'experimental'.
Perhaps have a discussion with your GP to fully assess your benefits of vaccination
Perhaps have a discussion with your GP to fully assess your benefits of vaccination
