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flooring!
Hi all,
We are in the process of building and have got to the stage where we need to decide on air-con and flooring and we need some words of wisdom from the experienced amongst you. We really love bamboo florring but have done abit of research which says you have to be very caredul as certain types can warp, and there are a whole host of lawsuits pending with people who have been caught out. Now this could be a load of nonsense but as you can imagine we are bit reluctant to go ahead without consulting somone who has had flooring installed and can advise us. Is there anyone out there who can highly reccomend a company who deals with grade A bamboo and who are trustworthy? Any words of wisdom would be gratefully received. Also quickly the same question for fully ducted air-con. Thanks a bunch Enjoy the long weekend. |
Re: flooring!
Arya goin Timber on Timber or Timber on Concrete?
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Re: flooring!
Timber on concrete because its a new build. Can you help us?
|
Re: flooring!
Originally Posted by Penry
(Post 5841339)
Timber on concrete because its a new build. Can you help us?
I'm sure he'll put you right asap ... :) |
Re: flooring!
Originally Posted by Penry
(Post 5841339)
Timber on concrete because its a new build. Can you help us?
Moisture is your biggest enemy As with most things in life, the product of a bad result isnt the result of a bad product ! Its usually over eager pressurinsing clients, or ill informed over zealous tradesmen. You must let the slab dry, and dry out thoroughly. Im not sure on the go in Oz, but in uk, we used to work on 1 month per 1 inch of concrete. So for a 4 inch slab, you would allow say 4 months ( varies during wet season and summer ) The easiest method is to do a Moisture test on the concrete, we have special tooling to do this, and requires a couple of holes to be drilled. We insert a cannister, and seal it, and then measure the humidity within the cannister 24-48 hours later. If you get quotes, ask if they can do a Hydrometer Test. regarding Bamboo. Well its not strictly hardwood, as its a grass. Also the fastest growing grass in the world. Straight grained ultra dense and very durable. However, because as you know, Bamboo isnt very thick ( the stems ) then the flooring needs to be finger jointed, when its manufactured, and its done grain on . So that you see the grain. This is in total contrast to hardwood flooring, where the grain is lateral with the floor. Theis is where the damp issues come in. If the flooring doesnt have a counter balancing layer ( which isnt the case with Bamboo ( it doesnt ) ) then the grain , normally untreated on underside, is left exposed for moisture to ingress. This causes a few anomalies within the substructure of the flooring. One of which manifests itself immediately, in that the joints open up, and boards are cupped. To a more serious issue, of expansion issues and the bamboo joints having unsightly gaps, and discolouration, and squeaking when you walk on it. So as with everything, irrespective of wether its bamboo, oak, or canadian rock maple, prepearation is 9/10th's of the law . The usual method for installation, providing the floor is dry sound and sealed. Is that it is flat. It doesnt need to be level, but it needs to be flat. Flatness on most glue down installations, has a tolerance of about 2mm per running metre. This is easily checked with a long straight level, and a fag packet !!! If the level is ok, and the floor ( sub floor ) is dry, then you need to seal the slab. There are proprietary seals, and you need to match the seal with they type of adhesive you are using for gluing the floor down. We use Sikabonds T2 adhesive, not sure on Aussie equivalent. Anyways. Check floor is dry. And that means DRY to the core !! Not just oh that feels dry. A trick of the trade, if your scottish, mean with your money or dont have access to a hydrometer, is to take some plastic, and lay it on the floor, about a5 size, must be transparent. Then gaffa tape it all the way round to the concrete floor. Watch it over a period of say, 7-10 days, make sure it is sealed TOTALLY. If moisture appears on underside, then the concrete is still hydrating, and moisture is still present. Hydration level is about 8% for hardwood type flooring. Now after sealing the floor, you must keep it dust free, and leave it for a few days. In that time, ensure all flooring is delivered, and stacked off the floor, by a couple of pieces of wood, and adequately supported. Open each pack slightly, and then put spacers between each pack as you stack them and store them. Do not store near sunshine. If you are going for amonia treated bamboo, be very careful, sunlight doesnt affect the boards whatsoever during storage. After 5 days, post floor seal. Then you can begin laying the flooring. With Bamboo, we direct glue, and stitch glue. Direct glue, is where we apply a bead of sikabond to the concrete, at 100mm intervals, and then lay the flooring into it, using the tack method. That is push flooring gently onto the adhesive and then pull back and then back down. That gives a double tack. Make sure when you use this method, that flooring is laid within 30 seconds of applying the adhesive, as otherwise it skins up, and is bloody uselarse !!! Stitch glue, is simple. Using pva wood glue, avail anwhere, bostik etc. Waterbased white woodglue that dries CLEAR. Apply it down groove of next plank, 100mm miss 100mm 100mm miss 100mm you get the picture, then slot it into the piece installed on floor, and away you go. Trust me, I have had over the years 50 " so called floorers " working for me , most of them know jack shit. Tell your installer you want all doorways scribed and undercut, and that you want to inspect expansion gaps, before they trim out. Allow 4-8mm per 4-6m width of flooring expansion. Because it is grain up, the flooring expands across the grain, not with the grain, so bamboo, is susceptable to greater expansion characteristics than other flooring. Treat your floor with respect, costs a lot to install costs 5 x that to replace !!! NO high heels whatsoever. Just a word of advice. Hard doesnt mean it is HARD HARD Its a generic term for slow growing timber. Balsa Wood is a Hardwood !! No stillettoes !!! Ste good luck |
Re: flooring!
Originally Posted by PaulandNic
(Post 5841419)
He's the man but would guess is currently finishing off a ruby and a few shandies ... :D
I'm sure he'll put you right asap ... :) |
Re: flooring!
Originally Posted by PaulandNic
(Post 5841618)
See! ... told you so! ... :)
|
Re: flooring!
Originally Posted by Timber Floor Au
(Post 5841623)
;) took me ages to type that lol. !
Fair play to ya altho this'll prob be the last post on this thread! ... http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/awman2-1.gif :rofl: Hope the curry was good. REALLY wanted to come along but other half is a bit under the weather so blew out ... :( Next time! ... :) |
Re: flooring!
Originally Posted by PaulandNic
(Post 5841633)
For me a good hour, at least!
Fair play to ya altho this'll prob be the last post on this thread! ... http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/awman2-1.gif :rofl: Hope the curry was good. REALLY wanted to come along but other half is a bit under the weather so blew out ... :( Next time! ... :) |
Re: flooring!
Originally Posted by Timber Floor Au
(Post 5841584)
I can help you, vocally :)
Moisture is your biggest enemy As with most things in life, the product of a bad result isnt the result of a bad product ! Its usually over eager pressurinsing clients, or ill informed over zealous tradesmen. You must let the slab dry, and dry out thoroughly. Im not sure on the go in Oz, but in uk, we used to work on 1 month per 1 inch of concrete. So for a 4 inch slab, you would allow say 4 months ( varies during wet season and summer ) The easiest method is to do a Moisture test on the concrete, we have special tooling to do this, and requires a couple of holes to be drilled. We insert a cannister, and seal it, and then measure the humidity within the cannister 24-48 hours later. If you get quotes, ask if they can do a Hydrometer Test. regarding Bamboo. Well its not strictly hardwood, as its a grass. Also the fastest growing grass in the world. Straight grained ultra dense and very durable. However, because as you know, Bamboo isnt very thick ( the stems ) then the flooring needs to be finger jointed, when its manufactured, and its done grain on . So that you see the grain. This is in total contrast to hardwood flooring, where the grain is lateral with the floor. Theis is where the damp issues come in. If the flooring doesnt have a counter balancing layer ( which isnt the case with Bamboo ( it doesnt ) ) then the grain , normally untreated on underside, is left exposed for moisture to ingress. This causes a few anomalies within the substructure of the flooring. One of which manifests itself immediately, in that the joints open up, and boards are cupped. To a more serious issue, of expansion issues and the bamboo joints having unsightly gaps, and discolouration, and squeaking when you walk on it. So as with everything, irrespective of wether its bamboo, oak, or canadian rock maple, prepearation is 9/10th's of the law . The usual method for installation, providing the floor is dry sound and sealed. Is that it is flat. It doesnt need to be level, but it needs to be flat. Flatness on most glue down installations, has a tolerance of about 2mm per running metre. This is easily checked with a long straight level, and a fag packet !!! If the level is ok, and the floor ( sub floor ) is dry, then you need to seal the slab. There are proprietary seals, and you need to match the seal with they type of adhesive you are using for gluing the floor down. We use Sikabonds T2 adhesive, not sure on Aussie equivalent. Anyways. Check floor is dry. And that means DRY to the core !! Not just oh that feels dry. A trick of the trade, if your scottish, mean with your money or dont have access to a hydrometer, is to take some plastic, and lay it on the floor, about a5 size, must be transparent. Then gaffa tape it all the way round to the concrete floor. Watch it over a period of say, 7-10 days, make sure it is sealed TOTALLY. If moisture appears on underside, then the concrete is still hydrating, and moisture is still present. Hydration level is about 8% for hardwood type flooring. Now after sealing the floor, you must keep it dust free, and leave it for a few days. In that time, ensure all flooring is delivered, and stacked off the floor, by a couple of pieces of wood, and adequately supported. Open each pack slightly, and then put spacers between each pack as you stack them and store them. Do not store near sunshine. If you are going for amonia treated bamboo, be very careful, sunlight doesnt affect the boards whatsoever during storage. After 5 days, post floor seal. Then you can begin laying the flooring. With Bamboo, we direct glue, and stitch glue. Direct glue, is where we apply a bead of sikabond to the concrete, at 100mm intervals, and then lay the flooring into it, using the tack method. That is push flooring gently onto the adhesive and then pull back and then back down. That gives a double tack. Make sure when you use this method, that flooring is laid within 30 seconds of applying the adhesive, as otherwise it skins up, and is bloody uselarse !!! Stitch glue, is simple. Using pva wood glue, avail anwhere, bostik etc. Waterbased white woodglue that dries CLEAR. Apply it down groove of next plank, 100mm miss 100mm 100mm miss 100mm you get the picture, then slot it into the piece installed on floor, and away you go. Trust me, I have had over the years 50 " so called floorers " working for me , most of them know jack shit. Tell your installer you want all doorways scribed and undercut, and that you want to inspect expansion gaps, before they trim out. Allow 4-8mm per 4-6m width of flooring expansion. Because it is grain up, the flooring expands across the grain, not with the grain, so bamboo, is susceptable to greater expansion characteristics than other flooring. Treat your floor with respect, costs a lot to install costs 5 x that to replace !!! NO high heels whatsoever. Just a word of advice. Hard doesnt mean it is HARD HARD Its a generic term for slow growing timber. Balsa Wood is a Hardwood !! No stillettoes !!! Ste good luck :rofl::rofl: |
Re: flooring!
Originally Posted by Timber Floor Au
(Post 5841584)
I can help you, vocally :)
Moisture is your biggest enemy As with most things in life, the product of a bad result isnt the result of a bad product ! Its usually over eager pressurinsing clients, or ill informed over zealous tradesmen. You must let the slab dry, and dry out thoroughly. Im not sure on the go in Oz, but in uk, we used to work on 1 month per 1 inch of concrete. So for a 4 inch slab, you would allow say 4 months ( varies during wet season and summer ) The easiest method is to do a Moisture test on the concrete, we have special tooling to do this, and requires a couple of holes to be drilled. We insert a cannister, and seal it, and then measure the humidity within the cannister 24-48 hours later. If you get quotes, ask if they can do a Hydrometer Test. regarding Bamboo. Well its not strictly hardwood, as its a grass. Also the fastest growing grass in the world. Straight grained ultra dense and very durable. However, because as you know, Bamboo isnt very thick ( the stems ) then the flooring needs to be finger jointed, when its manufactured, and its done grain on . So that you see the grain. This is in total contrast to hardwood flooring, where the grain is lateral with the floor. Theis is where the damp issues come in. If the flooring doesnt have a counter balancing layer ( which isnt the case with Bamboo ( it doesnt ) ) then the grain , normally untreated on underside, is left exposed for moisture to ingress. This causes a few anomalies within the substructure of the flooring. One of which manifests itself immediately, in that the joints open up, and boards are cupped. To a more serious issue, of expansion issues and the bamboo joints having unsightly gaps, and discolouration, and squeaking when you walk on it. So as with everything, irrespective of wether its bamboo, oak, or canadian rock maple, prepearation is 9/10th's of the law . The usual method for installation, providing the floor is dry sound and sealed. Is that it is flat. It doesnt need to be level, but it needs to be flat. Flatness on most glue down installations, has a tolerance of about 2mm per running metre. This is easily checked with a long straight level, and a fag packet !!! If the level is ok, and the floor ( sub floor ) is dry, then you need to seal the slab. There are proprietary seals, and you need to match the seal with they type of adhesive you are using for gluing the floor down. We use Sikabonds T2 adhesive, not sure on Aussie equivalent. Anyways. Check floor is dry. And that means DRY to the core !! Not just oh that feels dry. A trick of the trade, if your scottish, mean with your money or dont have access to a hydrometer, is to take some plastic, and lay it on the floor, about a5 size, must be transparent. Then gaffa tape it all the way round to the concrete floor. Watch it over a period of say, 7-10 days, make sure it is sealed TOTALLY. If moisture appears on underside, then the concrete is still hydrating, and moisture is still present. Hydration level is about 8% for hardwood type flooring. Now after sealing the floor, you must keep it dust free, and leave it for a few days. In that time, ensure all flooring is delivered, and stacked off the floor, by a couple of pieces of wood, and adequately supported. Open each pack slightly, and then put spacers between each pack as you stack them and store them. Do not store near sunshine. If you are going for amonia treated bamboo, be very careful, sunlight doesnt affect the boards whatsoever during storage. After 5 days, post floor seal. Then you can begin laying the flooring. With Bamboo, we direct glue, and stitch glue. Direct glue, is where we apply a bead of sikabond to the concrete, at 100mm intervals, and then lay the flooring into it, using the tack method. That is push flooring gently onto the adhesive and then pull back and then back down. That gives a double tack. Make sure when you use this method, that flooring is laid within 30 seconds of applying the adhesive, as otherwise it skins up, and is bloody uselarse !!! Stitch glue, is simple. Using pva wood glue, avail anwhere, bostik etc. Waterbased white woodglue that dries CLEAR. Apply it down groove of next plank, 100mm miss 100mm 100mm miss 100mm you get the picture, then slot it into the piece installed on floor, and away you go. Trust me, I have had over the years 50 " so called floorers " working for me , most of them know jack shit. Tell your installer you want all doorways scribed and undercut, and that you want to inspect expansion gaps, before they trim out. Allow 4-8mm per 4-6m width of flooring expansion. Because it is grain up, the flooring expands across the grain, not with the grain, so bamboo, is susceptable to greater expansion characteristics than other flooring. Treat your floor with respect, costs a lot to install costs 5 x that to replace !!! NO high heels whatsoever. Just a word of advice. Hard doesnt mean it is HARD HARD Its a generic term for slow growing timber. Balsa Wood is a Hardwood !! No stillettoes !!! Ste good luck |
Re: flooring!
Geez Ste that was some reply! Good on ya:)
|
Re: flooring!
pmsl, have i surprised some of yas or what?? lol
|
Re: flooring!
Originally Posted by Timber Floor Au
(Post 5843443)
pmsl, have i surprised some of yas or what?? lol
But was impressed with the way you replied in the other thread on Brickies rates:thumbsup: Tried to send Karma but need to spread it around:o |
Re: flooring!
Originally Posted by Timber Floor Au
(Post 5841584)
I can help you, vocally :)
Moisture is your biggest enemy As with most things in life, the product of a bad result isnt the result of a bad product ! Its usually over eager pressurinsing clients, or ill informed over zealous tradesmen. You must let the slab dry, and dry out thoroughly. Im not sure on the go in Oz, but in uk, we used to work on 1 month per 1 inch of concrete. So for a 4 inch slab, you would allow say 4 months ( varies during wet season and summer ) The easiest method is to do a Moisture test on the concrete, we have special tooling to do this, and requires a couple of holes to be drilled. We insert a cannister, and seal it, and then measure the humidity within the cannister 24-48 hours later. If you get quotes, ask if they can do a Hydrometer Test. regarding Bamboo. Well its not strictly hardwood, as its a grass. Also the fastest growing grass in the world. Straight grained ultra dense and very durable. However, because as you know, Bamboo isnt very thick ( the stems ) then the flooring needs to be finger jointed, when its manufactured, and its done grain on . So that you see the grain. This is in total contrast to hardwood flooring, where the grain is lateral with the floor. Theis is where the damp issues come in. If the flooring doesnt have a counter balancing layer ( which isnt the case with Bamboo ( it doesnt ) ) then the grain , normally untreated on underside, is left exposed for moisture to ingress. This causes a few anomalies within the substructure of the flooring. One of which manifests itself immediately, in that the joints open up, and boards are cupped. To a more serious issue, of expansion issues and the bamboo joints having unsightly gaps, and discolouration, and squeaking when you walk on it. So as with everything, irrespective of wether its bamboo, oak, or canadian rock maple, prepearation is 9/10th's of the law . The usual method for installation, providing the floor is dry sound and sealed. Is that it is flat. It doesnt need to be level, but it needs to be flat. Flatness on most glue down installations, has a tolerance of about 2mm per running metre. This is easily checked with a long straight level, and a fag packet !!! If the level is ok, and the floor ( sub floor ) is dry, then you need to seal the slab. There are proprietary seals, and you need to match the seal with they type of adhesive you are using for gluing the floor down. We use Sikabonds T2 adhesive, not sure on Aussie equivalent. Anyways. Check floor is dry. And that means DRY to the core !! Not just oh that feels dry. A trick of the trade, if your scottish, mean with your money or dont have access to a hydrometer, is to take some plastic, and lay it on the floor, about a5 size, must be transparent. Then gaffa tape it all the way round to the concrete floor. Watch it over a period of say, 7-10 days, make sure it is sealed TOTALLY. If moisture appears on underside, then the concrete is still hydrating, and moisture is still present. Hydration level is about 8% for hardwood type flooring. Now after sealing the floor, you must keep it dust free, and leave it for a few days. In that time, ensure all flooring is delivered, and stacked off the floor, by a couple of pieces of wood, and adequately supported. Open each pack slightly, and then put spacers between each pack as you stack them and store them. Do not store near sunshine. If you are going for amonia treated bamboo, be very careful, sunlight doesnt affect the boards whatsoever during storage. After 5 days, post floor seal. Then you can begin laying the flooring. With Bamboo, we direct glue, and stitch glue. Direct glue, is where we apply a bead of sikabond to the concrete, at 100mm intervals, and then lay the flooring into it, using the tack method. That is push flooring gently onto the adhesive and then pull back and then back down. That gives a double tack. Make sure when you use this method, that flooring is laid within 30 seconds of applying the adhesive, as otherwise it skins up, and is bloody uselarse !!! Stitch glue, is simple. Using pva wood glue, avail anwhere, bostik etc. Waterbased white woodglue that dries CLEAR. Apply it down groove of next plank, 100mm miss 100mm 100mm miss 100mm you get the picture, then slot it into the piece installed on floor, and away you go. Trust me, I have had over the years 50 " so called floorers " working for me , most of them know jack shit. Tell your installer you want all doorways scribed and undercut, and that you want to inspect expansion gaps, before they trim out. Allow 4-8mm per 4-6m width of flooring expansion. Because it is grain up, the flooring expands across the grain, not with the grain, so bamboo, is susceptable to greater expansion characteristics than other flooring. Treat your floor with respect, costs a lot to install costs 5 x that to replace !!! NO high heels whatsoever. Just a word of advice. Hard doesnt mean it is HARD HARD Its a generic term for slow growing timber. Balsa Wood is a Hardwood !! No stillettoes !!! Ste good luck I dont even need a floor laying but i almost threw one off the wrist at that reply, best reply ive seen on this site to anything asked:thumbsup: some large beers your way!! Nev:D |
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