GarryP

Thing is, that's the way thing *don't* work. Part of the problem we have is that our current setup isn't fit for purpose, as well as not being democratic in the true sense of the word.

We are quite at a stage where true democracy can be done, and although there are problems with doing so, we know of certain that picking between liars to do as they fancy is a failure.

knockoff nige

Irish people have no way of voting once they leave the country. They have to return to do that. So, no chance for me unless I happen to be in the country at that time. This is an issue as not for the first time, Irish people have been forced to emmigrate due to diabolical economic circumstances in Ireland brought on largely by the government. Not having a say in how it gets fixed (which could lead to a way back home) is insulting to those who've lost their jobs, homes and support of their families.

For english people who've had similar experiences, being on the other side of the world means you get no vote either. You've have a chance if you lived somewhere else in Europe.

Voting, regardless of how you feel about the contenders is very important. You're going to end up with someone, so pick one that you believe will do the best of the lot.

furbacchione

Where did I say everyone.

I think it pretty cut and dry if voting is your thang. Where you pay taxes is where you get to vote. So knockoff if you want to send money back to Ireland and support the economy then you should have the right to vote there. But you abandoned your country and fled to Australia (the reason you did it is irrelevant) so why should you have any say in their affairs. If you feel so strongly about their affairs then go back there and make a real difference, or at the minimum, as I said, pay to facilitate a difference - but some how I doubt you will.

And I stand on what I said earlier, but to look at it from a different perspective than yours, picking the lesser evil is stupid and shows a complete lack of moral fortitude.

To be honest I believe the ballots should have a none of the above choice. But you know the scumbags in office wouldn't dare do that because it would be a direct indictment on them and give the populous far more democratic choice than we supposedly have now.

Rod_ph

As furbacchione says below, democracy is about choice & the UK gives you up to 15 years away to be able to choose vote or not eg because by then the law determines that you have severed all links with the UK.
Here's the link to the poll (although you can't vote against!!)
http://www.votes-for-expat-brits.com/Sign-up-Poll.php

I think your comment "Democracy is about choice" sums up the overall issue of the right to vote (or not) very well.
Someone made the good point that you should be able to vote where you pay your taxes. I am resident in France and pay my taxes there but have no right to vote there. I also spend some time in the UK (less than 90 days/year), have a house, pay council tax there but have no right to vote there after 15 years non-resident in the UK.

French expats can continue to vote from abroad with no time limit and can vote via their local embassies or consulates as well as on-line. The British government is not prepared to organise similar for their expats.

I agree Caroline your points on the way democracy works & the exercising of your "hard-won" right to vote in the UK.

moneypenny20

It wouldn't occur to me to vote in an election in Britain. I've not lived there for seven years, it would be outrageous to do so imo. I pay no UK taxes, I have no moral right to say who should run the country.

Rod_ph

Strangely enough the standard UK government's response is that the right to vote is not necessarily related to paying UK taxes or not since other nationals (apart from Commonwealth & Irish citizens) resident and paying taxes in the UK also cannot vote.
However, after 7 years away as a British citizen you still have the right to vote in UK elections but choose not to do so for the perfectly good reasons you outline above.
That's not apathy but a personal decision in your case.

Rod_ph

Here's at least some support for voting rights for the Irish diaspora from the Irish Times.
"Some expatriates may resent being asked to help a society that failed them. If the Government wishes to value these citizens and establish a creative relationship with them, it could begin by extending the franchise."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...326410167.html

moneypenny20

That's my point though. I wouldn't have thought it was apathy for most people, the vast majority of people would feel the same way, that's it's not our call to make.

asher

I'm a dual nationality and i pay British taxes, I don't really care about voting but I really think you should be able to if you wanted to and the postal ballot is a farce as its impossible to do in time

a secure internet vote should be possible

knockoff nige

Thats actually quite ignorant

furbacchione

Without substance you're just noise not worth taking any notice of. Want to at least try and qualify that. At least when I called you stupid I backed it up.

knockoff nige

You called me stupid? Ha

What you said is ignorant as it makes a mockery of the decisions people were forced to make because of the diabolical decisions made by the Irish government. It would be their preference to be paying Irish tax over Australian tax but even that has been taken from them. Literally they were forced out of their country with their kids, no money and massive debt. Not being able to vote to get their lives back is a slap on the face.

Can I offer you some advice? Think of the bigger picture for once. Your posts on here scream of narcissism and often look like you are on a wind up. That's immature and useless in the few threads on here with an actual serious theme.

moneypenny20

Site Rule 1. Personal Attacks
BritishExpats.com is an interactive site, and everyone who participates is "in it together", please treat others the way you wish to be treated. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult or personal attack.

Thank you.

Rod_ph

Yes, I've been trying to get some idea as to why not many British citizens living overseas (5-6 million) actually register to vote in UK elections (some 30,000) while they still have the right. This is one major barrier to getting politicians to react to removing the 15 year limit on these overseas voting rights.
Australia with the largest (+1 million) & furthest removed portion of these British citizens seemed a good destination to check out why on-line.
The French seem to retain a greater attachment to their land of birth with some 1 million of their citizens living overseas registered/voting in their last presidential elections.
The Irish diaspora has no right to vote but seems to demonstrate a similar patriotic attachment to Ireland.
Even the patriotic Americans who retain the right to vote from overseas as they also remain US tax payers, can still only produce some +200,000 (civilian) overseas voters, from a similar-sized overseas citizen base as the British (& with 5 - 6 times the total population not much different from the British/pop. head). One reason offered is that as overseas US citizens in general are not major donors to presidential campaigns, it's not worth spending much money reaching out to them!

furbacchione

By what you're writing I'd say you're trying to say you're a victim of bad government policy and thus an economic refugee - how far off am I.

So tell us how you were forced to leave Ireland.

Well you're right about one thing I was winding you up. If you look back on the thread you would have found I never called you stupid.

I need to look at the bigger picture - what picture would that be. I thought i was being quite broad by saying you shouldn't get a vote if you don't pay taxes. Can't get much more broader than that.

Narcissism eh... that is so unfair. Can't you be a little bit more specific than that, but then again you think I should look at the big picture... insults don't get much more vague than that.

And no you can't offer me any advice... remember I'm a narcissist