The end of the Eurofolly, or why climbing into bed with Fritz and Pierre was stupid
Sep 28th 2011, 10:51 am
#61
I'm Old Gregg!
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: A Former Bogan Colony in QLD
Posts: 8,460
Re: The end of the Eurofolly, or why climbing into bed with Fritz and Pierre was stup
2. I cant quite believe that a bunch of world leaders with fingers on the atomic bomb sat around and said - "I know, lets promote a trade agreement un Europe as a way of preventing further warfare". In fact they were pretty busy at the time fighting communism, and doing pretty well at it.
Sep 28th 2011, 10:56 am
#62
Not allowed opinions.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: The end of the Eurofolly, or why climbing into bed with Fritz and Pierre was stup
No, you come on! I have supplied you a link to a very good essay on the matter, which also references a number of literary references that are all widely accepted as historical publications.
The only person in this debate who has supplied any references to my statements is me. You on the other hand, clearly someone who can never ever admit defeat have tried to discredit my original statement by simply poo-pooing and picking my argument to pieces on technicalities and choices of words.
You may be a bit of an economic whiz and have what I see as a basic understanding of history, but you certainly do not have anything resembling an in depth knowledge of history beyond what they teach you in the most basic of history books.
If you really want to carry on the debate about my original statement then offer some literary examples of how I am wrong.
Put up or shut up
The only person in this debate who has supplied any references to my statements is me. You on the other hand, clearly someone who can never ever admit defeat have tried to discredit my original statement by simply poo-pooing and picking my argument to pieces on technicalities and choices of words.
You may be a bit of an economic whiz and have what I see as a basic understanding of history, but you certainly do not have anything resembling an in depth knowledge of history beyond what they teach you in the most basic of history books.
If you really want to carry on the debate about my original statement then offer some literary examples of how I am wrong.
Put up or shut up
From the end of the Second World War until 1961, America’s strategy was buckpassing. The touchstone of the buckpassing strategy was the effort to avoid a permanent commitment to Europe. America sought to build up an independent European pole of power that could contain the Soviet Union with minimal American aid.
UTTER UTTER UTTER UTTER CRAP.
Buckpassing? Was Korea BUCKPASSING? Thats a bloody big insult to the 33,686 battle deaths and 8,176 men still missing in action!!!
contain the Soviet Union with minimal american aid? Do you know how many US servicemen served in Europe during that period. Were you even alive at that time?
Do you know the size of the US effort to protect and defend Europe? do you need me to start quoting you numbers and dollars?
That essay is rubbish and you know it. The first paragraph I read was pure fiction.
Sep 28th 2011, 10:58 am
#63
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: The end of the Eurofolly, or why climbing into bed with Fritz and Pierre was stup
Irving is revered by right wing nut jobs on the violent fringes of politics. To call him a revisionist is too kind.
One and the same.
He first rose to prominence with The Destruction of Dresden (1963), and was widely acclaimed for the depth of his research.
you should read some of his books, then you might know a more balanced view of history. His books like "Hitlers War" provides an interesting alternative perspective to the usual war time propaganda tainted versions.
He is also one of the VERY few historians to have been in jail for his views. remember Ivan, there are always two sides to a story. If you only know one, you are a one eyed man......
He first rose to prominence with The Destruction of Dresden (1963), and was widely acclaimed for the depth of his research.
you should read some of his books, then you might know a more balanced view of history. His books like "Hitlers War" provides an interesting alternative perspective to the usual war time propaganda tainted versions.
He is also one of the VERY few historians to have been in jail for his views. remember Ivan, there are always two sides to a story. If you only know one, you are a one eyed man......
Sep 28th 2011, 11:02 am
#64
I'm Old Gregg!
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: A Former Bogan Colony in QLD
Posts: 8,460
Re: The end of the Eurofolly, or why climbing into bed with Fritz and Pierre was stup
To quote from your "essay":
From the end of the Second World War until 1961, America’s strategy was buckpassing. The touchstone of the buckpassing strategy was the effort to avoid a permanent commitment to Europe. America sought to build up an independent European pole of power that could contain the Soviet Union with minimal American aid.
UTTER UTTER UTTER UTTER CRAP.
Buckpassing? Was Korea BUCKPASSING? Thats a bloody big insult to the 33,686 battle deaths and 8,176 men still missing in action!!!
contain the Soviet Union with minimal american aid? Do you know how many US servicemen served in Europe during that period. Were you even alive at that time?
Do you know the size of the US effort to protect and defend Europe? do you need me to start quoting you numbers and dollars?
That essay is rubbish and you know it. The first paragraph I read was pure fiction.
From the end of the Second World War until 1961, America’s strategy was buckpassing. The touchstone of the buckpassing strategy was the effort to avoid a permanent commitment to Europe. America sought to build up an independent European pole of power that could contain the Soviet Union with minimal American aid.
UTTER UTTER UTTER UTTER CRAP.
Buckpassing? Was Korea BUCKPASSING? Thats a bloody big insult to the 33,686 battle deaths and 8,176 men still missing in action!!!
contain the Soviet Union with minimal american aid? Do you know how many US servicemen served in Europe during that period. Were you even alive at that time?
Do you know the size of the US effort to protect and defend Europe? do you need me to start quoting you numbers and dollars?
That essay is rubbish and you know it. The first paragraph I read was pure fiction.
In Korea, in American eyes, they had no choice but to enter as they had no nearby allies, no buffer like they had with Western and Central Europe from the Soviets.
I've supplied links and references to support my original comment, which I think is enough for people to see the truth. From here on in, all I can think about is that common saying about arguing with idiots and the perception people will have of you
Over and out
Sep 28th 2011, 11:04 am
#65
Not allowed opinions.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: The end of the Eurofolly, or why climbing into bed with Fritz and Pierre was stup
To be honest mate, I have revised a lot of my ideas about the Defence of Singapore and the Japanese after reading Peter Elphicks "Pregnable Fortress" and doing some research....
Last edited by slapphead_otool; Sep 28th 2011 at 11:10 am. Reason: typos
Sep 28th 2011, 11:09 am
#66
Not allowed opinions.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: The end of the Eurofolly, or why climbing into bed with Fritz and Pierre was stup
...and in that particular piece you are quoting he is referring to America's position towards EUROPE!!!!!
In Korea, in American eyes, they had no choice but to enter as they had no nearby allies, no buffer like they had with Western and Central Europe from the Soviets.
I've supplied links and references to support my original comment, which I think is enough for people to see the truth. From here on in, all I can think about is that common saying about arguing with idiots and the perception people will have of you
Over and out
In Korea, in American eyes, they had no choice but to enter as they had no nearby allies, no buffer like they had with Western and Central Europe from the Soviets.
I've supplied links and references to support my original comment, which I think is enough for people to see the truth. From here on in, all I can think about is that common saying about arguing with idiots and the perception people will have of you
Over and out
Stuff all about Europe, he was talking about the COLD WAR!!!!!! That stretched from Cuba to Inchin......
You might try reading articles before you quote them mate. Do you REALLY think the USA passed the buck on the defence of Europe?
Last edited by slapphead_otool; Sep 28th 2011 at 11:11 am.
Sep 28th 2011, 11:19 am
#67
Not allowed opinions.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: The end of the Eurofolly, or why climbing into bed with Fritz and Pierre was stup
...and in that particular piece you are quoting he is referring to America's position towards EUROPE!!!!!
In Korea, in American eyes, they had no choice but to enter as they had no nearby allies, no buffer like they had with Western and Central Europe from the Soviets.
I've supplied links and references to support my original comment, which I think is enough for people to see the truth. From here on in, all I can think about is that common saying about arguing with idiots and the perception people will have of you
Over and out
In Korea, in American eyes, they had no choice but to enter as they had no nearby allies, no buffer like they had with Western and Central Europe from the Soviets.
I've supplied links and references to support my original comment, which I think is enough for people to see the truth. From here on in, all I can think about is that common saying about arguing with idiots and the perception people will have of you
Over and out
Quote: "During the second half of the 20th century, the number of U.S. troops in Europe and Asia dwarfed the number stationed in the other three regions: Africa, the Middle East, and the Americas (excluding the United States). Fifty-two percent of deployed troops were in Europe, and 41 percent were in Asia. More than one-third of troop deployments during 1950-2000 were to Germany alone, which hosted over 10,000,000 U.S. military personnel. Since 2003, however, the number of U.S. troops in the Middle East has increased dramatically, while troop levels in East Asia and Europe have continued their steady decline.
Thats a hell of a lot of buck passing mate. 10 MILLION MEN........
Face it, your chaps essay is pure rubbish.
Sep 28th 2011, 12:36 pm
#68
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 213
Re: The end of the Eurofolly, or why climbing into bed with Fritz and Pierre was stup
The EU is a bunch of champagne socialists, their own accounts arn't even signed off. Still, Uk voted for Labours pro EU stance 3 times.
Greece will never make the cuts required, or repay the debt.
The EU will not lose face onthe collapse of the euro,so will print more money to save it. The EU banks are at high risk of massive losses again.
Just like America,spending what it cannot afford, now the consequences.
Useless politicicians all round,including wet lettuce Cameron.
Greece will never make the cuts required, or repay the debt.
The EU will not lose face onthe collapse of the euro,so will print more money to save it. The EU banks are at high risk of massive losses again.
Just like America,spending what it cannot afford, now the consequences.
Useless politicicians all round,including wet lettuce Cameron.
Sep 28th 2011, 5:42 pm
#69
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: The end of the Eurofolly, or why climbing into bed with Fritz and Pierre was stup
It's clear everyone has their own views and opinions on this which is OK however throwing handbags at each other is a not on. Clearly it's got to the stage the curlers are being pulled out so before you all start throwing cig butts and empty beer cans, I'm closing the thread.
Everyone has stated their corner so all's good
Everyone has stated their corner so all's good
