Election

Old May 18th 2019, 2:13 pm
  #106  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
You should have a look at the Guardian - it's like Trump/Clinton all over again - libtard denialism on steroids!
I will take a look. Wong is beside herself.
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Old May 19th 2019, 2:55 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
I think it's been yet another nail in the coffin of democracy. Too many disengaged, clueless, *****wits, who continue to vote for losers who would step over them in a gutter, Coming on top of the US and UK, it kind of points up that people get the government they deserve. Dutton got home FFS - after everything he's done.

The only positive spark is that the waste of space Abbott has gone, but not nearly enough for the electorate to excuse themselves from voting for failure.
Quite correct of course. Hard times coming if you are a minimum wage earner, woman, refugee, wanting an environment /energy / climate change policy, for aged care, indigenous Australia, to name but a few.
Morrison will be the one picking up the baton from Abbott to further their neo lib agenda . Prepare for a retake of 2014 .
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Old May 19th 2019, 2:59 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
I will take a look. Wong is beside herself.
Wong is not 'beside herself', just disappointed like many of us, that greed and fear has basically won out over policy. Now time for Morrison to unleash the Coalition agenda on the rest of us.
Hard times ahead regardless who would have been elected. It just got a lot harder for a lot of people. Quite possibly many without realising it.
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Old May 19th 2019, 3:01 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Quite correct of course. Hard times coming if you are a minimum wage earner, woman, refugee, wanting an environment /energy / climate change policy, for aged care, indigenous Australia, to name but a few.
Morrison will be the one picking up the baton from Abbott to further their neo lib agenda . Prepare for a retake of 2014 .
That's quite a narrow group. We are talking a couple of 1000 people who fit that description.

Thank goodness we got a government who addresses the many and not a couple of 1000 people.
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Old May 19th 2019, 3:05 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Looking interesting. NSW thinking with a clear head. Victoria confused as always. Barnaby has an amazing mid life crisis glow. Tony gone.
That about sums it up.
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Old May 19th 2019, 3:21 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
That's quite a narrow group. We are talking a couple of 1000 people who fit that description.

Thank goodness we got a government who addresses the many and not a couple of 1000 people.
Environment has shown to be one of the key issues of concern among many more voters than you give credit for. As well I expect you know. Especially those being impacted by change, such as those living along the Murray River for example.
The re elected government won purely through fear and greed not policy. One thing for certain it won't be 'the many' who will benefit from the agenda about to be unleashed (depending on Senate make up of course) You can then look forward to 2014 austerity plan to begin.
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Old May 19th 2019, 3:28 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Wong is not 'beside herself', just disappointed like many of us, that greed and fear has basically won out over policy. Now time for Morrison to unleash the Coalition agenda on the rest of us.
Hard times ahead regardless who would have been elected. It just got a lot harder for a lot of people. Quite possibly many without realising it.
I wish I could say I was surprised by this outcome, but I tend to throw an additional 5% 'hidden idiot tax' onto every poll now - if you aren't ahead by that much, the idiots will probably win the day.

The problem is that the problems are nuanced, complex, and multifaceted. And the majority of voters aren't. You can see by the marketing of the major parties - they sell simple three word slogans because they know the majority of voters will only pick up on that level of discourse. People don't vote for policies, or people, or even parties - they vote for the mental ghost they have of what they think the situation is, warped via the media. So even though the current shower have demonstrably had the economic chops of kleptomaniac 5 year old - the model they have in their head is of 'strong economic managers, and tax and spend labor'. They really are living in a fantasy world, ignoring the real one - which is how democracy ends.

We had a particular example of this at work, an intelligent individual, totally capable of critical thinking, but convinced of the superiority of the coalition. Pointing out that they had doubled the debt was met with incredulity, or that renewables were the only thing that would bring down power bills. The cognitive dissonance when you showed him the data was so palpable that you could cut it with a knife - he'd bought into the fantasy world, yet the data showed the opposite. His reaction? To throw up his hands and effectively ignore the data. And this was someone who deals with data every day and was well mentally capable of seeing the truth.

Ahh well, the only bright spot is the libs were counting on labor to win, so they could pin the upcoming sh*tshow in the economy on them. Now that excuse is unavailable - and they will have to try and spin it. On the negative side, they will need the other half of the pre-election giveaway, the bit where taxes have to rise and spending fall to not have the budget totally out of whack. People will be hurt, and the country will likely go into recession.
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Old May 19th 2019, 3:48 am
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Default Re: Election

Indeed. Short sound bites or one liners keeping the message simple seem to win the day. One thing I suspect the re election of the Coalition will divide the nation over time and reignite political consciousness as the aggressive and extensive attacks on the remnants of the welfare state take hold, workers pay continues to stagnate and various interests profit from the return.
One question could be will Morrison take the Coalition back to a more 'middle ground' thus diverting the strong far right tilt wanted by many in the party, or even if he has the numbers to?
Time will tell, but with a falling economy , falling dollar, far from clear policy it going to be a bumpy ride.
I suppose it could be said Shorten attempted to sell an overly socialist agenda on a largely disconnected public, whose main concerns was falling living standards in a highly personally leveraged country, where stagnant wages, falling house prices, job insecurity which should have been the points in part that would see an ALP across the line, actually be successfully turned against them in that the Coalition are better in the management of money . (people forget the mess the ALP inherited in the 83 election) (the state of WA finances after the 'biggest boom in history' left by the Liberals)
Lets see the make up of The Senate. If Right Wing dominated, we'll be pretty much stuffed.
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Old May 19th 2019, 3:53 am
  #114  
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Default Re: Election

With Dutton still hanging around, they are going to remain far right and probably continue to blame everything on labor ...

To give an idea of just how useless most voters are, this survey is illuminating

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/a...-a8918256.html

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Old May 19th 2019, 3:57 am
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Default Re: Election

At least Shorten refused to kow tow to Murdoch. Out of all the press, for what it influence it still wields these days, more than some suspect, I think, only Sydney Morning Herald, The Melbourne Age and Darwin's NT Times came out in support of ALP.

The Australian, may just as well recast themselves as the Voice of the Coalition as it was broadly little but mouth piece of the Coalition manifesto. The West Australian displayed a total bias on behalf of the same side as to make unreadable.
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Old May 19th 2019, 4:01 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
With Dutton still hanging around, they are going to remain far right and probably continue to blame everything on labor ...

To give an idea of just how useless most voters are, this survey is illuminating

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/a...-a8918256.html
I wonder if Dutton fancies his chances again a little further down the line, once the coming economic crisis really starts to unravel. He seeing himself as a populist rightist with an agenda to match and a populace 'seeking some degree of salvation'?
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Old May 19th 2019, 4:05 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
That's quite a narrow group. We are talking a couple of 1000 people who fit that description.

Thank goodness we got a government who addresses the many and not a couple of 1000 people.
I hadn't realised just how 'narrow' a group women are. Thanks for pointing that out. It's been sometime since it was pointed out to me just how much a mans world it is, outside of Coalition politics of course where women who don't know their place tend to wise up pretty quickly.
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Old May 19th 2019, 4:57 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Environment has shown to be one of the key issues of concern among many more voters than you give credit for. As well I expect you know. Especially those being impacted by change, such as those living along the Murray River for example.
The re elected government won purely through fear and greed not policy. One thing for certain it won't be 'the many' who will benefit from the agenda about to be unleashed (depending on Senate make up of course) You can then look forward to 2014 austerity plan to begin.
It would be foolish for the LNP to ignore the public mood moving forward (like Abbott did). I think you will see some clear air for Morrison moving forward in which he may seek such items. They already have climate targets in place, targets that balance cost of dealing with environmental issues. They could look to have another crack on climate, again balancing targets with costs. They witnessed how the voters voted against a "pie in the sky" climate agenda with no economic balance such as the one the Labor party put forward.

You and Penny Wong call it fear. I call it being sensible. Most of the Labor policy was based on hopes and dreams rather than sensible rational on how to get there. And when it didn't make sense they just rolled out the "take from the top end of town" which really meant "take from the middle class and above". When you isolate and punish so many it's always going to end in tears.

Thankfully the voting public saw sense.
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Old May 19th 2019, 5:04 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
I wish I could say I was surprised by this outcome, but I tend to throw an additional 5% 'hidden idiot tax' onto every poll now - if you aren't ahead by that much, the idiots will probably win the day.

The problem is that the problems are nuanced, complex, and multifaceted. And the majority of voters aren't. You can see by the marketing of the major parties - they sell simple three word slogans because they know the majority of voters will only pick up on that level of discourse. People don't vote for policies, or people, or even parties - they vote for the mental ghost they have of what they think the situation is, warped via the media. So even though the current shower have demonstrably had the economic chops of kleptomaniac 5 year old - the model they have in their head is of 'strong economic managers, and tax and spend labor'. They really are living in a fantasy world, ignoring the real one - which is how democracy ends.

We had a particular example of this at work, an intelligent individual, totally capable of critical thinking, but convinced of the superiority of the coalition. Pointing out that they had doubled the debt was met with incredulity, or that renewables were the only thing that would bring down power bills. The cognitive dissonance when you showed him the data was so palpable that you could cut it with a knife - he'd bought into the fantasy world, yet the data showed the opposite. His reaction? To throw up his hands and effectively ignore the data. And this was someone who deals with data every day and was well mentally capable of seeing the truth.

Ahh well, the only bright spot is the libs were counting on labor to win, so they could pin the upcoming sh*tshow in the economy on them. Now that excuse is unavailable - and they will have to try and spin it. On the negative side, they will need the other half of the pre-election giveaway, the bit where taxes have to rise and spending fall to not have the budget totally out of whack. People will be hurt, and the country will likely go into recession.
Sounds like you really want to say "Murdoch" but just remember there is also the SMH, The Age, The ABC and the Guardian. All equally dreadful outlets. The SMH however is getting its act together since being taken over by 9, however still favouring the Labor party.

I think you are over thinking it. When you target most to take a net income cut what do you expect to happen? You can't please a small few in society and expect to win the hearts and minds of everyone else.

First and foremost people care about their hip pocket and the government for them is there to provide the economic foundation for most to live a better existence. If you are going to hit most with higher taxes its game over before you have even explained why.

See John Hewson and the GST.

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Old May 19th 2019, 5:08 am
  #120  
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Default Re: Election

I liked the idea of a more "equal" society and a fresher set of legs voted Labour and then got immediate buyer's remorse.
I keep reading the Left wing press and all I hear is the top end of town and wealthy.

I have said this before and I will say it again.
Lots of people get some wealth through shear grit and enterprise in small business and trades. It is not all about the top end of town at all. That is a mere tiny fraction.
Lots of people do fine with 2 incomes in white collar jobs even though yes, I would like someone to go after profits (but at what cost? - can we just limit Exec salaries and allow their income to trickle down?
Lot of middle incomers negative gear.

Unfortunately the left I hear bitter and angry are trapped in low paid meaningful jobs and that is the real problem and they then think the country is rotten. Getting a real job is what counts ultimately. Tell your children to get a trade. They will be better for it maybe than in a thinktank.

Once that Adani caravan headed into QLD - people wanted jobs. I can't say I blame them. Abbott gone might actually help the Libs move to the centre.

cheers

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