the troubadour

Given that I don't give a fig about property being well placed in that area, your constant referring to it, regardless of thread can only be deduced as being a result of own inner fear.
Sydney not for me as rather boring, besides being over priced, for what it is. Nothing more. So didn't say when you'll be joining the exodus out of Sydney. I guess you can't afford to sell due to negative equity. Well you can't say you were not warned. Sydney been waiting to implode for yonks. I guess make the best of it and follow own advice and move to Brisbane.( How about Ireland? Your twin seems to be suggesting that country is the one Australia should emulate? To which you apparently agree. Hey, don't wait for Ireland to come to Australia, go to Ireland.) Never fancied Brisbane myself, but each to their own. Actually you don't get what you pay for, you get an over inflated version not worth the price paid for.
But back to thread. As most of us will have become increasingly aware, the only thing that matters at the moment is the removal of the dreadful, no policy Coalition Party from power in Australia. Sydney being probably an already lost cause.

Beoz

That's a lot to say about property for someone who doesn't give a fig about property.

Did you see the news today, the LNP is going to assist first home buyers by helping them achieve the 20% deposit by being the guarantor?

They aren't giving handouts, they are helping the young get ahead on their own steam.

The lack of handout may not resonate with your type, but that's fine. No all of us are after the free ride.

the troubadour

Again a lack of knowledge on outcomes. purely for self interest in above comments. Another reason to ensure LNP do not get anywhere near forming next government. As usual in bed with the real estate and financial interests, which will further distort the housing market ending in rising prices. Certainly are handouts for those in related industries but as we know the LNP reserve the best of their handouts to the most well heeled and top end of town. Those at the bottom twenty per cent will further see living conditions fall with the likelihood of ever more middle clas joining their ranks if this dreadful government is re elected. Not to say ever more cut to services.

Beoz

Self interest? I am not a first home buyer. Why would this interest me?

However I am interested in fair policy, and what could be fairer than guaranteeing a loan for someone who has put in the hard yards and saved a 5% deposit. Today, getting a loan guaranteed is easy providing you have a parent or someone helpful with an asset to guarentee against. Many don't have such luxuries but many are capable of working hard, and saving hard.

There's your incentive.

In Bull Shorten's world, let's just take from the rich and give them the cash. Really, is that what you want that moron doing with your tax?

the troubadour

But in the loan business though. For starters 5% is nowhere close to enough of a deposit and as already mentioned government intervention further distorts the housing market. Far better to see a correction in an over inflated market. All this does is allows prices to rise further. Does nothing for anybody longer term apart from real estate agents and brokers, but even they will be culled longer term. If your desire is to create more mortgage slaves, ever more unlikely to pay off loans in working life, just wait until interest rates do rise.
You need to realise the rich cannot be allowed to hide money in overseas tax shelters or creative tax accounting. The rorts cannot be allowed to go on. Good on the ALP for at least talking about a return to a better, fairer society and yes I do expect a fair disruption of my tax in order to create that process and not to further help out the real estate and financial industry.

Beoz

Are you aware of how the banks judge what someone can borrow? Firstly, the banks won't lend an amount to someone who is unable to pay off in their working life. It just doesn't happen. Secondly a bank won't lend if you are unable to pay off your weekly, monthly, installments. A bank judges what you can borrow based on an interest rate of 7%. Its all myth you are pedalling which is why defaults are at their lowest rate ever.

"The rich" - who are the rich who do this? Assume you are talking individuals, are we talking to top 1%, 10%? Please elaborate?

As for companies, you are aware that the current government has been actively perusing companies who are not working within the rules. Google for example, is in an ongoing dispute with the ATO (since 2017) about booking revenue in Singapore. I am sure you can appreciate some the legal complexities here. However the good news is, companies like Google are booking more and more revenue to Australia as the rules are slowly tightened, slow because the complex world of internet transactions can be hard to pinpoint. And of course, like you do with your tax return, companies also work the rules to minimize their tax position.

I also notice, Bull Shorten's only policy on this, is to prevent deductions being claim for companies who have associations with considered tax havens - that's anyone who has an office in Singapore or Ireland. Good luck with that Bully Boy Shorten.

As I have previously said, any globally tax movement effort needs to be a coordinated global effort. Australia attempting it alone is laughable at best.

the troubadour

Tell me becoming Ireland, obviously includes taking on their national debt of 2010 billion Euros as well. By the way, that's higher than the failed economy of Greece per person basis. Be a great way to broaden the minds of the young, who like Ireland in times of down turn or simply low living standards who be forced to navigate the world in search of better living standards. No best we return to proven methods where no one sector wins favour and all have some part in the nation with regards to belonging and treated as such.

the troubadour

I know very well how the banking system and loans work. Banks can of course be gung ho about operations, knowing the tax payer will step in if the worst case scenario plays out. Even conservative commentators will baulk at the irresponsibility of granting 5% loans. While storing up the housing market at present in the doldrums and working in top gear to gain government assistance in kicking off the market again, (5% real estate sellers lost work already in NSW, I believe) (Still lots of culling available in that ant the broking area though)
What could go wrong???? You know fully well who are referred to when the 'rich' are discussed. Quite simply if we don't see a return to greater inclusion and a lowering of the festering hostility being brought about by ever growing inequality this country will be in for the problems experienced by those countries already marginalised and failing large segments of their population.

Beoz

Give us one of those scenarios given what I have already educated you about how banks judge the suitability for a loan?

Joys of lack of volume. It also kicks the receivable stamp duty that pays for your state services. It also hurts a tradie, an architect, and other occupations you don't hate and have resentment towards.

Tell us. The mathematics behind "what could go wrong" would be a good start? A major recession? Well we are all screwed then in many ways.

Your beloved Labor party seems to think its a great idea.

Quite frankly, I don't know who you are referring to. I don't think Bull Shorten does either. He seems to be hitting the middle class more than anyone else. Are you talking to top 60%?

Amazulu

This is what it's like

the troubadour

No it rather makes the economy overly dependant on the housing market. Big danger when the readjustment does finally come. Over inflated housing soaks up far too much capital, which could be put to better use in something more productive. If housing remains the mainstay of the economy, we are in big trouble indeed. I'm afraid education is not your forte by a long shot, so will ignore that besides suggesting you cast your eyes further afield onto the world stage (scary place for you I realise) and clock the results of cheap loans with little up front required. That's what could far easier of course bring down the economy especially when rates do rise.
No the top 20. ALP are probably reading the tea leaves this time around enough to catch the populist vote. No doubt Morrison will attempt to buy their way into voters favouritism just as Howard attempted at his last failed attempt to be re elected. The tide has probably and not before time changed and moved on. Policies from the eighties have shown to be generally a failure and economics is but one angle of running government not its entire function.
Change of direction badly needed and if the country doesn't want the heartless policies attempted to be imposed by the Coalition a few years back in the budget, they will certainly not give this present government a ringing endorsement that is low on policy preferring the attack method on the opposition's progressive agenda.
We don't want to go down the road the Tories have taken Britain surely?

Beoz

So you want a Billy then? Have you not learned? Of course, the Federal Libs internally are somewhat of a basket case, however, economically there's not a lot to fault.

On the flipside, the last 2 times Labor came into power, everything fell apart, even while handing out new TV vouchers.

But of course, the destruction of Australia pleases many left wingers. It's a bizarre trait, but it's there.

Sadly you property ambitions were looking so promising with NG changes and all, but all has been dashed with all these first home buyers about to enter the market. Oh well next time.

GarryP

$250bn > $550bn and no excuse of the GFC.

Strong economic managers ...... riiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhhttttttttttt




And again, unemployment rising with nothing to force it, except the obvious factor of who's in charge ....



And far from cutting CO2 pollution, they have increased it.

Internal basket case, external clown show.

the troubadour

Well saving appears to be rather quaint with the young. But 5% deposit is walking on glass. While it may arrest property decline in value, for a time, the problem will remain and is purely populist policy but not responsible.
ALP like most all Australian political parties are hardly ideal. But compared to the Tory Coalition (in all fairness can never call them Lib's) No policy to speak off. Scomo doing the bidding himself, as his team not to be trusted not to facilitate the wheels falling off the Tory bid to retain power. Come now. The rich can not be expected to horde ever more of the wealth while the rest get steadily poorer. A greater distribution will incite greater returns within the economy.

Beoz

First and foremost, your debt chart says to all. The last Labor government sent it on an upward trajectory and as can be clearly seen, the Liberals have begun to reign it in.

Why do you post such things when you are a Labor voter. It's easy pickings.