Election

Old May 9th 2019, 4:05 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Fair dinkum, they'd have to mention battlers doing it tough as well ..... strewth.
You would really know things are severely 'crook' when they drag out 'the battlers' as a line to win over punters. Especially if attempting a straight face at the same time.
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Old May 9th 2019, 4:18 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
The people will decide

That's how it works

Australia and Ireland continue to experience increasing per capita GDP, HDI, disposable and discretionary incomes etc. The figures tell the story. Yes, both countries are expensive places to live but that is a product of a wealthy, successful economy, with relatively high incomes. It is what it is
You do understand how GDP is measured, I suppose? Any activity at all. Just how does Australia having one of the largest personal debt populations in the world along with near stagnant growth in incomes arrive at 'your' increasing disposable incomes, not forgetting the decline of property peoples main source of wealth? Be interested to know.
Meanwhile Ireland looks to have learnt little from its crash a decade ago, repeating the same mistakes while services go from bad to worse. As I wrote it is hard to compare Ireland, a country of next to no resources, with Australia a country of plentiful bounty bad badly governed, just the fact that you consider it doable, in in itself, in part, an example of the pitiful state we find ourselves in, in Australia.
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Old May 9th 2019, 4:41 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
along with near stagnant growth in incomes arrive at 'your' increasing disposable incomes,
You could try another western country, however you won't have much luck on increasing incomes there either

Increasing disposable incomes. Inflation is lower than wage increases. That's how it works.
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Old May 9th 2019, 6:48 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
You could try another western country, however you won't have much luck on increasing incomes there either

Increasing disposable incomes. Inflation is lower than wage increases. That's how it works.
Most countries have of course been impacted by the neo liberalism failed economic experiment of recent decades. No denying that. Of course if housing had been kept in the mix Australian inflation would have been sky high. Most people will treat the measurement of inflation with the contempt it deserves. Simple house hold economics will alert people to the fact that the price of vegetables/fruit/meat in their supermarkets is way,way above supposed inflation levels. Same as utility bills and essentials
It matters not, that big ticket items like washing machines and TV sets have declined. It is the day to day things.
That's how it really works..
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Old May 9th 2019, 7:17 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
But that's the point, drip feeding is reaching the people, especially those who need it most.

As much as you want to make up this rubbish that Australia is in some type of bad situation you fail every time to come up with clear evidence of that. Just because you cannot get on the property ladder in the best suburbs of Perth is just resentment ..... nothing more.

Sorry for the late reply BTW. Too busy making hay while the sunshines. If Labor gets in I know that earning a crust won't be so easy, and the tax dollars of the many people I manage is in jeopardy. So is the tax dollars we all contribute in more ways than one.

Get ready for the loss of foreign investment and choking red tape.
The point being is that drip down economics has been shown to be a disaster and was little more than an ideology. Do keep up. Far better to put the money into those being 'dribbled on' own pockets which will allow them to spend.
You may as well make hay, as things are looking a big grim Sydneyside. I'm afraid the vibrants are not riding to the rescue, but at least those over inflated houses are falling. Although quality of life considerations must make the desire to flee Sydney, along with the tens of thousands last year, rather compelling.
You are probably right. ALP appears to be cracking down within the financial industry hence salad days likely to be subsidised by consumption of past date vegetables for sales wallahs and associated hangers on. I believe real estate industry already contracted by 5%.
No there will be plenty of foreign investment. Aussie will be a steal if, as what looks likely, the dollar will contract. Hope houses are not part of the focus though (outside of new builds)
Australia is and has been for a long time a country where an over abundance of rules and regs rule. Little change there. Just keep an eye on the financial industry that abuse doesn't return and keep those brokers under scrutiny.
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Old May 9th 2019, 7:24 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Instead of moaning about Ireland, we should become Ireland. What they did on corporate taxes has smashed their economy into orbit. Their per capita GDP and HDI score have skyrocketed in recent years. Cut taxes and they will come - it's not rocket surgery

It will never happen here though as both sides are punch drunk on taxes, with nobody prepared to make the hard tax reforms needed. We are already, arguably, the richest country in the world but we could be the Liechtenstein of the Southern Hemisphere
Besides being smashed into orbit by an unsustainable economy is there any other reasons you can find that would should become Ireland? Joining the EU would be good, though highly unrealistic. Besides Australia is already in Euro Vision. The better quality Guinness could be another. Perhaps add an Irish brogue to the rather flat Aussie accent? Perhaps we could run down the health system to such a degree even surpass Ireland, and vouchers issued for care in Indonesian hospitals?
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Old May 9th 2019, 7:33 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
I heard it several times in last nights debate.

It actually means taking more from the wealthy to give to the poor, even though the wealthy already greatly subside the poor.

Sadly giving the poor more doesn't equal a fair go. BS really needs to look into what that is and what it means. In this country, the poor are very much given a fair go in respect to services. Could there be more done when it comes to non tangible fair go's .... sure .... but that certainly doesn't mean raiding the piggy bank.
Well the lowest earners have witnessed a decline of 9% from 2003 to 2016, the only group to do so. One in four pensioners in Australia are living on or under the poverty line. Australia's New Start (dole) has long been among the least generous in the OECD. It moved from one of the better last century to among the worst over recent decades. Even The Chamber of Commerce, has for years been coming out stating it is too low. Neither the main parties will address the issue.
As for kitty banks, the raiding is done by tax cuts to the rich and non compliance of tax payment by multi national corporations.
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Old May 9th 2019, 7:39 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
But that's the point, drip feeding is reaching the people, especially those who need it most.

As much as you want to make up this rubbish that Australia is in some type of bad situation you fail every time to come up with clear evidence of that. Just because you cannot get on the property ladder in the best suburbs of Perth is just resentment ..... nothing more.

Sorry for the late reply BTW. Too busy making hay while the sunshines. If Labor gets in I know that earning a crust won't be so easy, and the tax dollars of the many people I manage is in jeopardy. So is the tax dollars we all contribute in more ways than one.

Get ready for the loss of foreign investment and choking red tape.
Only property ladder I'm concerned about the ladder used to attempt to gain illegal entry into my house. You really should get your head in another place than property.
What Australia should aspire to of course is a more relaxed more open environment where fun and living life retakes centre stage, rather than work and money and career being the mainstay , with nine o'clock bedtimes and perhaps come half alive on a Friday night.
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Old May 9th 2019, 1:07 pm
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
You do understand how GDP is measured, I suppose? Any activity at all. Just how does Australia having one of the largest personal debt populations in the world along with near stagnant growth in incomes arrive at 'your' increasing disposable incomes, not forgetting the decline of property peoples main source of wealth? Be interested to know.
Meanwhile Ireland looks to have learnt little from its crash a decade ago, repeating the same mistakes while services go from bad to worse. As I wrote it is hard to compare Ireland, a country of next to no resources, with Australia a country of plentiful bounty bad badly governed, just the fact that you consider it doable, in in itself, in part, an example of the pitiful state we find ourselves in, in Australia.
As I have pointed out to you many times before - Australia's debt is too high but it is higher still among some of our peers in Europe, like Denmark, Holland and Switzerland. How do they manage? Why is okay for them (in your opinion) but not for us? I've asked you this before and you've never answered, so I'm not expecting anything different now!

Australian incomes are rising, albeit slowly, while inflation remains low and falling - there's the main reason for increasing disposable incomes right there. It's not rocket surgery! Wages are rising slowly because of the supply/demand equation for labour - no other reason. Our economy is doing okay, but not great. WA is not quite back to being the engine of the economy but that will change by next year. Elsewhere, there is too much regulation and green and red tape, taxes are too high, international conditions are somewhat uncertain, there are too many government employees not contributing to productivity etc. All this causes a drag on business confidence thereby affecting employment. Break it down and it's simple to understand

HDI is the best measure of an country's health that there is. Australia's figure is still rising and we remain at the very top, along with our peers in Europe, Norway and Switzerland. But look at Ireland's. They have screamed up the rankings in the last 10 years and have joined us at the top in 4th place - and may overtake us next year. Remember, HDI measures not only economic performance but other social metrics too. Check it out. | Human Development Reports
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Old May 10th 2019, 4:05 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
As I have pointed out to you many times before - Australia's debt is too high but it is higher still among some of our peers in Europe, like Denmark, Holland and Switzerland. How do they manage? Why is okay for them (in your opinion) but not for us? I've asked you this before and you've never answered, so I'm not expecting anything different now!

Australian incomes are rising, albeit slowly, while inflation remains low and falling - there's the main reason for increasing disposable incomes right there. It's not rocket surgery! Wages are rising slowly because of the supply/demand equation for labour - no other reason. Our economy is doing okay, but not great. WA is not quite back to being the engine of the economy but that will change by next year. Elsewhere, there is too much regulation and green and red tape, taxes are too high, international conditions are somewhat uncertain, there are too many government employees not contributing to productivity etc. All this causes a drag on business confidence thereby affecting employment. Break it down and it's simple to understand

HDI is the best measure of an country's health that there is. Australia's figure is still rising and we remain at the very top, along with our peers in Europe, Norway and Switzerland. But look at Ireland's. They have screamed up the rankings in the last 10 years and have joined us at the top in 4th place - and may overtake us next year. Remember, HDI measures not only economic performance but other social metrics too. Check it out. | Human Development Reports
Most you 'point out' though is simply wrong. Australia's debt is not that high. What is high peoples personal debt. Very close to the highest in the world. A lot of this is due to over inflated housing and 'easy money' loans, rather troublesome in a time of falling house prices of course.
While some countries in Europe, like Switzerland maintain high personal debt, they have a better pension system and health system where one need not be concerned in age with how to survive or how to pay for hospital bills. When age and health are removed from worrying about it is amazing how so much of the rest falls into place.
I have told you, inflation regardless what official figures appear to suggest is not falling for ordinary people. Prices of fruit and vegetables as an example are very high . We have probably the most expensive power bills in the world. Private medical insurance rises above inflation most years as does rates . Big ticket items have been in decline but that will cease as well as petrol with the falling Aussie dollar. Which by the way will make us poorer.
WA not quite back to be the engine of the economy? No its not. It has second highest unemployment. A continued falling housing market. It has an air of despondency about it. People are not spending. So many empty business premises all the price of a casino economy of course. No one knows if recovery is coming or not, with the real estate and their 'green shoots of recovery ' delusion being said since 2015.
The figures you mention mean nothing. When a country ceases to function to an acceptable standard in the provision of health and care for the weaker members of society (yes there is such a thing) banks run havoc along with their financial hangers on in corrupt practices and you have a government in denial refusing to investigate practices obvious to anyone with half a brain and awareness into conduct, the plight of age care in Australia which is a national disgrace , having the lowest payment of unemployed rates in the OECD, an employment network profiting from the privatisation of a far superior previous government run system that now rort the system delivering poor . Lots more could be said but what we really need is to go after the tax dodgers in big business and those using creative accountants and restore a decent society which I have already inferred is far more than economy.
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Old May 10th 2019, 6:56 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Most you 'point out' though is simply wrong. Australia's debt is not that high. What is high peoples personal debt. Very close to the highest in the world. A lot of this is due to over inflated housing and 'easy money' loans, rather troublesome in a time of falling house prices of course.
While some countries in Europe, like Switzerland maintain high personal debt, they have a better pension system and health system where one need not be concerned in age with how to survive or how to pay for hospital bills. When age and health are removed from worrying about it is amazing how so much of the rest falls into place.
I have told you, inflation regardless what official figures appear to suggest is not falling for ordinary people. Prices of fruit and vegetables as an example are very high . We have probably the most expensive power bills in the world. Private medical insurance rises above inflation most years as does rates . Big ticket items have been in decline but that will cease as well as petrol with the falling Aussie dollar. Which by the way will make us poorer.
WA not quite back to be the engine of the economy? No its not. It has second highest unemployment. A continued falling housing market. It has an air of despondency about it. People are not spending. So many empty business premises all the price of a casino economy of course. No one knows if recovery is coming or not, with the real estate and their 'green shoots of recovery ' delusion being said since 2015.
The figures you mention mean nothing. When a country ceases to function to an acceptable standard in the provision of health and care for the weaker members of society (yes there is such a thing) banks run havoc along with their financial hangers on in corrupt practices and you have a government in denial refusing to investigate practices obvious to anyone with half a brain and awareness into conduct, the plight of age care in Australia which is a national disgrace , having the lowest payment of unemployed rates in the OECD, an employment network profiting from the privatisation of a far superior previous government run system that now rort the system delivering poor . Lots more could be said but what we really need is to go after the tax dodgers in big business and those using creative accountants and restore a decent society which I have already inferred is far more than economy.
Some advanced countries in Europe like Denmark, Norway, Holland and Switzerland have higher levels of personal debt than Australia. Why? Why is it okay for them and not Australia?

Australia's public health system is rated 2nd best in the world after the NHS

The public pension system in many European countries, like Germany, is being consumed by all their baby boomers with not enough being passed on to the next generations. Countries with large private systems like the UK and Australia are going to fare better going forward

Hope this helps

Last edited by Amazulu; May 10th 2019 at 7:00 am.
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Old May 10th 2019, 11:15 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
WA not quite back to be the engine of the economy? No its not. It has second highest unemployment. A continued falling housing market. It has an air of despondency about it. People are not spending. So many empty business premises all the price of a casino economy of course. No one knows if recovery is coming or not, with the real estate and their 'green shoots of recovery ' delusion being said since 2015.
.
Move east then. Things are booming and it might make you happier.
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Old May 11th 2019, 4:33 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Move east then. Things are booming and it might make you happier.
I guess you'll be joining the outward bound exodus from Sydney soon? Doubt if happiness comes into Sydney living these days, unless made a fortune on property purchased yonks ago and heading Over West to purchase cheaper housing and attempting to discover a 'lifestyle'.
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Old May 11th 2019, 8:53 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Some advanced countries in Europe like Denmark, Norway, Holland and Switzerland have higher levels of personal debt than Australia. Why? Why is it okay for them and not Australia?

Australia's public health system is rated 2nd best in the world after the NHS

The public pension system in many European countries, like Germany, is being consumed by all their baby boomers with not enough being passed on to the next generations. Countries with large private systems like the UK and Australia are going to fare better going forward

Hope this helps
Those advanced countries maintain better welfare systems than does Australia. While Norway, is indeed higher in personal debt they have a substantial sovereign fund, more than capable of intervening in an emergency situation. This was all brought about of course, here I refer to Denmark and Netherlands due to low interest rates, easy borrowing much akin to Australia. None of those countries have attempted to follow the path of Australia although Denmark is a bit worrying, like Ireland. Saw one housing boom end badly and look like repeating much the same.
As for health, UK once led the world in free on demand health/hospital facilities available to a high standard, which has declined over time , which many would argue was the Tory policy, and sell a more American type system to the public in the process.
Australia's system of confused private with gap galore, amounting to very expensive procedures in areas and long waits in public, is far removed from second best, regardless of what set of figures you prefer to believe. Besides having certain medications not subsidised that are in certain European systems , in countries like Germany the after care is something unavailable in Australia where free wellness centres provide additional care after operations and hospital stays, but people complain as there have been cuts there as well. The Australian system is a shock to them.
You keep going on about the pension, but it continues and it would be a very brave government that attempted to altar things too much. The aged are more plentiful and more political. Countries with large private systems for profit are going to further increase disadvantage and create two tier systems found in South Africa and Asia for example. Not a good idea nor a path a country like Australia needs or should follow.
We have an extremely poor aged care already in place. We need to up our game, to at least try and match some of the European countries not be in a race for the bottom, which is seemingly all too common in the Anglo Saxon world of recent decades.
By the way, if you want a proper 'check up' go to Malaysia. It takes over half a day, but for about $US150 they will check every part of the body, liver function, kidneys, heart besides bloods and give you a professional diagnosis preformed in top range facility by top notch doctors. It goes way beyond what they term a 'check up' in Australia.
I'm sure this will help correcting misassumptions.
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Old May 11th 2019, 11:38 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I guess you'll be joining the outward bound exodus from Sydney soon? Doubt if happiness comes into Sydney living these days, unless made a fortune on property purchased yonks ago and heading Over West to purchase cheaper housing and attempting to discover a 'lifestyle'.
Given your love of property in desired locations, sadly you are always a stones throw away from grasping hold of one, you are probably right, Sydney is not for you.

Perhaps Brisbane may be more in your budget.

You get what you pay for.
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