Election
#136
Re: Election
Hold on. A government who has been in government for 6 years who has been rolling out and implementing policy for 6 years suddenly needs to roll out a new set of dramatic changes because an election is coming? Really? No. In fact a government who has been implementing policy then suddenly has to roll out a bunch of new policies looks pretty stupid and desperate.
Labor = some actual worthwhile policies, but wrong person to get the message across. It has been known for some time that Shorten was not popular, but they took the stability route to their detriment.
Liberals = no actual, substantive policies, but right man (marketing) to deliver a non-message scare campaign.
I read somewhere a few weeks ago that it would the Coalition 4-5 weeks to get their plans through Parliament. It would have taken Labor their full term to get their ideas implemented. That speaks volumes.
#137
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Election
Eeeeerrrr.....yes they should. In an election any party is proposing to run the country for the next few years and to not tell the electorate how they are going to do that and affect the people and country in it's future is wrong. You maybe happy with with your blind, unwavering Liberal ideology, but for me as a swing voter I want to know what I am going to get potentially.
Labor = some actual worthwhile policies, but wrong person to get the message across. It has been known for some time that Shorten was not popular, but they took the stability route to their detriment.
Liberals = no actual, substantive policies, but right man (marketing) to deliver a non-message scare campaign.
I read somewhere a few weeks ago that it would the Coalition 4-5 weeks to get their plans through Parliament. It would have taken Labor their full term to get their ideas implemented. That speaks volumes.
Labor = some actual worthwhile policies, but wrong person to get the message across. It has been known for some time that Shorten was not popular, but they took the stability route to their detriment.
Liberals = no actual, substantive policies, but right man (marketing) to deliver a non-message scare campaign.
I read somewhere a few weeks ago that it would the Coalition 4-5 weeks to get their plans through Parliament. It would have taken Labor their full term to get their ideas implemented. That speaks volumes.
I can't think of any Labor policies worth a nod. For example, I am not against climate initiatives, however I am against leading voters into an election without an understanding, a timeline, a costing of what they are. On top of that, to shred the use of coal on one hand, and support Adani on the other is total hypocrisy. Further to the climate point, totally ignoring nuclear is just backward thinking.
Take child care for example, the Liberals had just implemented changes which greatly benefits poorer people. The poorest in society now get 85% subsidized. Here come Labor and set a policy where the poorest get child care free. Really is that where we are in society? We totally give away something, you receive more than you give out. No. Everyone should be required to put in some effort, even if its massively means tested and subsidized by the wealthy.
Sorry but not buying the "top end of town" bullshit.
#138
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Election
With the likes of Anning losing their Senate seat no trend at all set towards Right Wing extremes, which is, I'm sure what you are referring.
Not quite a time of changin .....
#139
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Election
Hold on. A government who has been in government for 6 years who has been rolling out and implementing policy for 6 years suddenly needs to roll out a new set of dramatic changes because an election is coming? Really? No. In fact a government who has been implementing policy then suddenly has to roll out a bunch of new policies looks pretty stupid and desperate.
They have said little of policy since Morrison became the PM . What can be expected, people forget how 'hard core' this bloke has proven to be, is that he will commit to the policies Tony Abbot failed to get out and become likely more successful than Abbot in selling out the country and people.
#140
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Election
Err yes. You had your vote. Sadly for you your team didn't win.
I can't think of any Labor policies worth a nod. For example, I am not against climate initiatives, however I am against leading voters into an election without an understanding, a timeline, a costing of what they are. On top of that, to shred the use of coal on one hand, and support Adani on the other is total hypocrisy. Further to the climate point, totally ignoring nuclear is just backward thinking.
Take child care for example, the Liberals had just implemented changes which greatly benefits poorer people. The poorest in society now get 85% subsidized. Here come Labor and set a policy where the poorest get child care free. Really is that where we are in society? We totally give away something, you receive more than you give out. No. Everyone should be required to put in some effort, even if its massively means tested and subsidized by the wealthy.
Sorry but not buying the "top end of town" bullshit.
I can't think of any Labor policies worth a nod. For example, I am not against climate initiatives, however I am against leading voters into an election without an understanding, a timeline, a costing of what they are. On top of that, to shred the use of coal on one hand, and support Adani on the other is total hypocrisy. Further to the climate point, totally ignoring nuclear is just backward thinking.
Take child care for example, the Liberals had just implemented changes which greatly benefits poorer people. The poorest in society now get 85% subsidized. Here come Labor and set a policy where the poorest get child care free. Really is that where we are in society? We totally give away something, you receive more than you give out. No. Everyone should be required to put in some effort, even if its massively means tested and subsidized by the wealthy.
Sorry but not buying the "top end of town" bullshit.
#141
Re: Election
More a case of more the same apart from more pain. Yes there will be more division but a rise of the deplorables, I think not. More a resignation of the silent masses that politics is failing them resulting in a turn off in interest.
With the likes of Anning losing their Senate seat no trend at all set towards Right Wing extremes, which is, I'm sure what you are referring.
Not quite a time of changin .....
With the likes of Anning losing their Senate seat no trend at all set towards Right Wing extremes, which is, I'm sure what you are referring.
Not quite a time of changin .....
As we saw on Saturday, Australians don't want a hard-left or hard-right government. Looks to me like they want a mild center-right administration - I'd prefer it to be really hard-right, but this will do - it's democracy and you don't always get what you want. All I know is that we've avoided a hard-left, anti-Australian, anti-Western government. Build a bridge and get over it
You can slice and dice it all you like but there it is
#142
Re: Election
Err yes. You had your vote. Sadly for you your team didn't win.
I can't think of any Labor policies worth a nod. For example, I am not against climate initiatives, however I am against leading voters into an election without an understanding, a timeline, a costing of what they are. On top of that, to shred the use of coal on one hand, and support Adani on the other is total hypocrisy. Further to the climate point, totally ignoring nuclear is just backward thinking. As explained by Ross Gittens here, having no policy will lead to problems all round - https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect...19-p51owo.html
Take child care for example, the Liberals had just implemented changes which greatly benefits poorer people. The poorest in society now get 85% subsidized. Here come Labor and set a policy where the poorest get child care free. Really is that where we are in society? We totally give away something, you receive more than you give out. No. Everyone should be required to put in some effort, even if its massively means tested and subsidized by the wealthy.
Sorry but not buying the "top end of town" bullshit.
I can't think of any Labor policies worth a nod. For example, I am not against climate initiatives, however I am against leading voters into an election without an understanding, a timeline, a costing of what they are. On top of that, to shred the use of coal on one hand, and support Adani on the other is total hypocrisy. Further to the climate point, totally ignoring nuclear is just backward thinking. As explained by Ross Gittens here, having no policy will lead to problems all round - https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect...19-p51owo.html
Take child care for example, the Liberals had just implemented changes which greatly benefits poorer people. The poorest in society now get 85% subsidized. Here come Labor and set a policy where the poorest get child care free. Really is that where we are in society? We totally give away something, you receive more than you give out. No. Everyone should be required to put in some effort, even if its massively means tested and subsidized by the wealthy.
Sorry but not buying the "top end of town" bullshit.
If people were "bought" by promised tax cuts, then they will lose them by spending more on private health insurance. I think the markets see that as most of the PHI companies stock has risen well this morning.
Franking credits is a tax loop hole that needs closing.
Negative Gearing needs reviewing to change the housing situation from an investment market back to a housing market.
Climate policy - well at least they had one.
I think market forces will dictate Adani. Coal is a dying fuel source to the point where it will cost more to dig it out of the ground than it can be sold for - like UK coal in the 80's.
Childcare for free - well that free's up peoples time so they can get back into the workforce and reduce the benefits so they don't get more than they put back in. How else do you think they can get back into work if they can't afford the childcare to give them the time to do so?
Last edited by Tom Sawyer; May 20th 2019 at 4:42 am.
#143
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Election
More denialism from the left - you see this with the dems in the US and Corbyn's Labour in the UK - get it into your heads - the majority don't want a hard-left, tax them till they drop agenda
As we saw on Saturday, Australians don't want a hard-left or hard-right government. Looks to me like they want a mild center-right administration - I'd prefer it to be really hard-right, but this will do - it's democracy and you don't always get what you want. All I know is that we've avoided a hard-left, anti-Australian, anti-Western government. Build a bridge and get over it
You can slice and dice it all you like but there it is
As we saw on Saturday, Australians don't want a hard-left or hard-right government. Looks to me like they want a mild center-right administration - I'd prefer it to be really hard-right, but this will do - it's democracy and you don't always get what you want. All I know is that we've avoided a hard-left, anti-Australian, anti-Western government. Build a bridge and get over it
You can slice and dice it all you like but there it is
No we have likely voted an anti worker, battler government in through fear and them keeping quiet on agenda and people's memories being limited when it comes to political recall. Why the Alp didn't seek to stir memories of the 14 attack on ordinary people, begs belief. No idea what you refer to as Anti Western? Both parties are firmly in the China camp with many ex's on both sides earning good money ensuring it remains so. I suppose you consider being 'pro western' as following America into any future conflicts with Iran for example?
Although if conflict with China arose I wouldn't hedge Australia's chances very highly.
I'm afraid the great far right back lash against decency and civility and respect has not quite arrived yet. Will Morrison turn far right? A question I have asked, to which we don't know. Probably more chance of him being centralist but all bets off.
#144
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Election
Any thoughts on a supplementary budget being brought about soon, implementing the beginning of the undisclosed agenda to be imposed on Australia?
How long do we have to wait before the scapegoating of minority groups? Great to know Australia will 'soon' be to begin to discover the relaxed nature that tourists often point to as being an initial impression. I was dead scared if those socialists had been elected the onus on less induced stress on people may suggest to our tourists with less space on the beaches that this is a nation of leaners and slackers.
How long do we have to wait before the scapegoating of minority groups? Great to know Australia will 'soon' be to begin to discover the relaxed nature that tourists often point to as being an initial impression. I was dead scared if those socialists had been elected the onus on less induced stress on people may suggest to our tourists with less space on the beaches that this is a nation of leaners and slackers.
#145
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Election
I don't have a team. I said I was a swing voter. This time it was Labor,and that was the first time I believe. Recent state election Liberal (although it was close due to the stadiums issue). Last year when living in Perth for by-election, Centre Alliance - would have voted for them again but didn't stand in NSW. I evaluate parties on their policies each election. The Liberals gave me nothing substantive to work with this time, but offered the status quo which I read as Government instability, split party, ideologues lurching further to the extreme right into PHON grounds. That is why a party should produce policy on what their plans are.
If people were "bought" by promised tax cuts, then they will lose them by spending more on private health insurance. I think the markets see that as most of the PHI companies stock has risen well this morning.
Franking credits is a tax loop hole that needs closing.
Negative Gearing needs reviewing to change the housing situation from an investment market back to a housing market.
Climate policy - well at least they had one.
I think market forces will dictate Adani. Coal is a dying fuel source to the point where it will cost more to dig it out of the ground than it can be sold for - like UK coal in the 80's.
Childcare for free - well that free's up peoples time so they can get back into the workforce and reduce the benefits so they don't get more than they put back in. How else do you think they can get back into work if they can't afford the childcare to give them the time to do so?
If people were "bought" by promised tax cuts, then they will lose them by spending more on private health insurance. I think the markets see that as most of the PHI companies stock has risen well this morning.
Franking credits is a tax loop hole that needs closing.
Negative Gearing needs reviewing to change the housing situation from an investment market back to a housing market.
Climate policy - well at least they had one.
I think market forces will dictate Adani. Coal is a dying fuel source to the point where it will cost more to dig it out of the ground than it can be sold for - like UK coal in the 80's.
Childcare for free - well that free's up peoples time so they can get back into the workforce and reduce the benefits so they don't get more than they put back in. How else do you think they can get back into work if they can't afford the childcare to give them the time to do so?
The Conservative side of politics is great at placing blame and promoting fear and greed onto a population with little inclination or desire to venture too deeply.
We get the politicians we deserve. A shame for those that came before and fought hard battles for rights that allowed Australia over time to develop one of the highest and fairest living stands/countries in the world. Narrow interests increasingly win out today. Little else to say on the matter really.
#146
Re: Election
I see the narrative in more global terms. In most develop countries populations are aging. Aging populations tend to vote for political parties with more traditionally conservative policies. It shouldn't be a surprise that progressive parties tend to struggle to attract voters.
As for the future of the Australian economy, if they continues with the same policies it will likely continue to get the same results . In the short term RBA has a little more leverage to work but if growth continues to be lousy it's not in their remit to restructure Australias economy.
As for the future of the Australian economy, if they continues with the same policies it will likely continue to get the same results . In the short term RBA has a little more leverage to work but if growth continues to be lousy it's not in their remit to restructure Australias economy.
#147
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Election
I don't have a team. I said I was a swing voter. This time it was Labor,and that was the first time I believe. Recent state election Liberal (although it was close due to the stadiums issue). Last year when living in Perth for by-election, Centre Alliance - would have voted for them again but didn't stand in NSW. I evaluate parties on their policies each election. The Liberals gave me nothing substantive to work with this time, but offered the status quo which I read as Government instability, split party, ideologues lurching further to the extreme right into PHON grounds. That is why a party should produce policy on what their plans are.
If people were "bought" by promised tax cuts, then they will lose them by spending more on private health insurance. I think the markets see that as most of the PHI companies stock has risen well this morning.
Franking credits is a tax loop hole that needs closing.
Negative Gearing needs reviewing to change the housing situation from an investment market back to a housing market.
Climate policy - well at least they had one.
I think market forces will dictate Adani. Coal is a dying fuel source to the point where it will cost more to dig it out of the ground than it can be sold for - like UK coal in the 80's.
Childcare for free - well that free's up peoples time so they can get back into the workforce and reduce the benefits so they don't get more than they put back in. How else do you think they can get back into work if they can't afford the childcare to give them the time to do so?
If people were "bought" by promised tax cuts, then they will lose them by spending more on private health insurance. I think the markets see that as most of the PHI companies stock has risen well this morning.
Franking credits is a tax loop hole that needs closing.
Negative Gearing needs reviewing to change the housing situation from an investment market back to a housing market.
Climate policy - well at least they had one.
I think market forces will dictate Adani. Coal is a dying fuel source to the point where it will cost more to dig it out of the ground than it can be sold for - like UK coal in the 80's.
Childcare for free - well that free's up peoples time so they can get back into the workforce and reduce the benefits so they don't get more than they put back in. How else do you think they can get back into work if they can't afford the childcare to give them the time to do so?
https://www.liberal.org.au/our-policies
There's quite a few. Many work in progress projects from the past 6 years. Rome wasn't built in a day. Morrison was very shrewed in his approach. He had each policy worked out, some are very complex so he didn't talk about the complex ones. Kept it simple. Only spoke about them when asked.
In contrast Labors key policies drove a wedge through the voters. They were controversial at best and they more they talked the bigger the hole got. Many policies had no detail. It was a mess.
Franking credits - messing with peoples long laid out retire plans - bad. Phasing better
Negative Gearing - is it going to drop house prices? No answer. So we stay with default.
Climate - Libs have a plan too. It's in the policies.
Child care. On an 85% rebate at $100 per day a minimum wage earner can pay off 1 day of care in about 40 mins. Let them contribute.
Yep, lots of in fighting no doubt. In some respects its healthy the Liberal Party have varied ideas to fight over. If Labor weren't so bad, that should have got them over the line.
Last edited by Beoz; May 20th 2019 at 10:32 am.
#148
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Election
I recall, before the election, I tried to drag it out of you what the "top end of town" really was.
I think we settled on the top 60%.
#149
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Election
It does really open up the question. Who are the blinded and bigots?
https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect....html#comments
https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect....html#comments
#150
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Election
It does really open up the question. Who are the blinded and bigots?
https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect....html#comments
https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect....html#comments
I suppose if you trawl the streets of inner Melbourne you will come up with a Liberal voter, or one that will play the role and allow themselves to be a mouth piece for the Liberal propaganda machine.
Really scratching the bottom of the barrel using this as a 'positive' furthering a party devoid of declared policy.