Election

Old May 20th 2019, 2:17 am
  #136  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Hold on. A government who has been in government for 6 years who has been rolling out and implementing policy for 6 years suddenly needs to roll out a new set of dramatic changes because an election is coming? Really? No. In fact a government who has been implementing policy then suddenly has to roll out a bunch of new policies looks pretty stupid and desperate.
Eeeeerrrr.....yes they should. In an election any party is proposing to run the country for the next few years and to not tell the electorate how they are going to do that and affect the people and country in it's future is wrong. You maybe happy with with your blind, unwavering Liberal ideology, but for me as a swing voter I want to know what I am going to get potentially.

Labor = some actual worthwhile policies, but wrong person to get the message across. It has been known for some time that Shorten was not popular, but they took the stability route to their detriment.
Liberals = no actual, substantive policies, but right man (marketing) to deliver a non-message scare campaign.

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that it would the Coalition 4-5 weeks to get their plans through Parliament. It would have taken Labor their full term to get their ideas implemented. That speaks volumes.
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Old May 20th 2019, 4:20 am
  #137  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
Eeeeerrrr.....yes they should. In an election any party is proposing to run the country for the next few years and to not tell the electorate how they are going to do that and affect the people and country in it's future is wrong. You maybe happy with with your blind, unwavering Liberal ideology, but for me as a swing voter I want to know what I am going to get potentially.

Labor = some actual worthwhile policies, but wrong person to get the message across. It has been known for some time that Shorten was not popular, but they took the stability route to their detriment.
Liberals = no actual, substantive policies, but right man (marketing) to deliver a non-message scare campaign.

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that it would the Coalition 4-5 weeks to get their plans through Parliament. It would have taken Labor their full term to get their ideas implemented. That speaks volumes.
Err yes. You had your vote. Sadly for you your team didn't win.

I can't think of any Labor policies worth a nod. For example, I am not against climate initiatives, however I am against leading voters into an election without an understanding, a timeline, a costing of what they are. On top of that, to shred the use of coal on one hand, and support Adani on the other is total hypocrisy. Further to the climate point, totally ignoring nuclear is just backward thinking.

Take child care for example, the Liberals had just implemented changes which greatly benefits poorer people. The poorest in society now get 85% subsidized. Here come Labor and set a policy where the poorest get child care free. Really is that where we are in society? We totally give away something, you receive more than you give out. No. Everyone should be required to put in some effort, even if its massively means tested and subsidized by the wealthy.

Sorry but not buying the "top end of town" bullshit.

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Old May 20th 2019, 4:42 am
  #138  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
An election won by the deplorables

The trend in the West continues

The times the are a changin
More a case of more the same apart from more pain. Yes there will be more division but a rise of the deplorables, I think not. More a resignation of the silent masses that politics is failing them resulting in a turn off in interest.
With the likes of Anning losing their Senate seat no trend at all set towards Right Wing extremes, which is, I'm sure what you are referring.
Not quite a time of changin .....
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Old May 20th 2019, 4:56 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Hold on. A government who has been in government for 6 years who has been rolling out and implementing policy for 6 years suddenly needs to roll out a new set of dramatic changes because an election is coming? Really? No. In fact a government who has been implementing policy then suddenly has to roll out a bunch of new policies looks pretty stupid and desperate.
It is of advantage already holding the reigns of office. You should at least have knowledge of that fact. I seem to recall the shocking class focused budget of year 2014 was indeed Coalition policy that didn't make in through The Senate. Cigar chomping Joe and his Belgian mate come to mind as so representative of that time. It was certainly about the Big End of town at the expense of what once may have been termed the Real Aussies. The government due to its numerical status in Parliament has had little ability to follow or introduce any agenda (they learnt the lesson from 14) with regards real policy, but certainly attempted besides putting the fear of God into the non political mass topped off with a spot of bribery, to catch the ones that don't fear easily, followed by purely attacking a progressive platform, (easy to do of course when putting so much policy out ) is not a party with any policy.
They have said little of policy since Morrison became the PM . What can be expected, people forget how 'hard core' this bloke has proven to be, is that he will commit to the policies Tony Abbot failed to get out and become likely more successful than Abbot in selling out the country and people.

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Old May 20th 2019, 5:01 am
  #140  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Err yes. You had your vote. Sadly for you your team didn't win.

I can't think of any Labor policies worth a nod. For example, I am not against climate initiatives, however I am against leading voters into an election without an understanding, a timeline, a costing of what they are. On top of that, to shred the use of coal on one hand, and support Adani on the other is total hypocrisy. Further to the climate point, totally ignoring nuclear is just backward thinking.

Take child care for example, the Liberals had just implemented changes which greatly benefits poorer people. The poorest in society now get 85% subsidized. Here come Labor and set a policy where the poorest get child care free. Really is that where we are in society? We totally give away something, you receive more than you give out. No. Everyone should be required to put in some effort, even if its massively means tested and subsidized by the wealthy.

Sorry but not buying the "top end of town" bullshit.
Not buying the attempted policy have stated top end tax cuts? Are you reading your own manifesto?
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Old May 20th 2019, 5:29 am
  #141  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
More a case of more the same apart from more pain. Yes there will be more division but a rise of the deplorables, I think not. More a resignation of the silent masses that politics is failing them resulting in a turn off in interest.
With the likes of Anning losing their Senate seat no trend at all set towards Right Wing extremes, which is, I'm sure what you are referring.
Not quite a time of changin .....
More denialism from the left - you see this with the dems in the US and Corbyn's Labour in the UK - get it into your heads - the majority don't want a hard-left, tax them till they drop agenda

As we saw on Saturday, Australians don't want a hard-left or hard-right government. Looks to me like they want a mild center-right administration - I'd prefer it to be really hard-right, but this will do - it's democracy and you don't always get what you want. All I know is that we've avoided a hard-left, anti-Australian, anti-Western government. Build a bridge and get over it

You can slice and dice it all you like but there it is
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Old May 20th 2019, 5:39 am
  #142  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Err yes. You had your vote. Sadly for you your team didn't win.

I can't think of any Labor policies worth a nod. For example, I am not against climate initiatives, however I am against leading voters into an election without an understanding, a timeline, a costing of what they are. On top of that, to shred the use of coal on one hand, and support Adani on the other is total hypocrisy. Further to the climate point, totally ignoring nuclear is just backward thinking. As explained by Ross Gittens here, having no policy will lead to problems all round - https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect...19-p51owo.html

Take child care for example, the Liberals had just implemented changes which greatly benefits poorer people. The poorest in society now get 85% subsidized. Here come Labor and set a policy where the poorest get child care free. Really is that where we are in society? We totally give away something, you receive more than you give out. No. Everyone should be required to put in some effort, even if its massively means tested and subsidized by the wealthy.

Sorry but not buying the "top end of town" bullshit.
I don't have a team. I said I was a swing voter. This time it was Labor,and that was the first time I believe. Recent state election Liberal (although it was close due to the stadiums issue). Last year when living in Perth for by-election, Centre Alliance - would have voted for them again but didn't stand in NSW. I evaluate parties on their policies each election. The Liberals gave me nothing substantive to work with this time, but offered the status quo which I read as Government instability, split party, ideologues lurching further to the extreme right into PHON grounds. That is why a party should produce policy on what their plans are.

If people were "bought" by promised tax cuts, then they will lose them by spending more on private health insurance. I think the markets see that as most of the PHI companies stock has risen well this morning.
Franking credits is a tax loop hole that needs closing.
Negative Gearing needs reviewing to change the housing situation from an investment market back to a housing market.
Climate policy - well at least they had one.
I think market forces will dictate Adani. Coal is a dying fuel source to the point where it will cost more to dig it out of the ground than it can be sold for - like UK coal in the 80's.
Childcare for free - well that free's up peoples time so they can get back into the workforce and reduce the benefits so they don't get more than they put back in. How else do you think they can get back into work if they can't afford the childcare to give them the time to do so?

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Old May 20th 2019, 5:58 am
  #143  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
More denialism from the left - you see this with the dems in the US and Corbyn's Labour in the UK - get it into your heads - the majority don't want a hard-left, tax them till they drop agenda

As we saw on Saturday, Australians don't want a hard-left or hard-right government. Looks to me like they want a mild center-right administration - I'd prefer it to be really hard-right, but this will do - it's democracy and you don't always get what you want. All I know is that we've avoided a hard-left, anti-Australian, anti-Western government. Build a bridge and get over it

You can slice and dice it all you like but there it is
Shame for you Fraser Anning got the well deserved boot. Yes most will be aware your politics are to the right of Genghis Khan . No the ALP policy was left but hardly hard left, more akin to lite Menzies era , a time when the people mattered, not purely economic policy, who was on the Lib's side for you newbie arrivals.
No we have likely voted an anti worker, battler government in through fear and them keeping quiet on agenda and people's memories being limited when it comes to political recall. Why the Alp didn't seek to stir memories of the 14 attack on ordinary people, begs belief. No idea what you refer to as Anti Western? Both parties are firmly in the China camp with many ex's on both sides earning good money ensuring it remains so. I suppose you consider being 'pro western' as following America into any future conflicts with Iran for example?
Although if conflict with China arose I wouldn't hedge Australia's chances very highly.
I'm afraid the great far right back lash against decency and civility and respect has not quite arrived yet. Will Morrison turn far right? A question I have asked, to which we don't know. Probably more chance of him being centralist but all bets off.
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Old May 20th 2019, 6:08 am
  #144  
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Default Re: Election

Any thoughts on a supplementary budget being brought about soon, implementing the beginning of the undisclosed agenda to be imposed on Australia?

How long do we have to wait before the scapegoating of minority groups? Great to know Australia will 'soon' be to begin to discover the relaxed nature that tourists often point to as being an initial impression. I was dead scared if those socialists had been elected the onus on less induced stress on people may suggest to our tourists with less space on the beaches that this is a nation of leaners and slackers.
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Old May 20th 2019, 6:20 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
I don't have a team. I said I was a swing voter. This time it was Labor,and that was the first time I believe. Recent state election Liberal (although it was close due to the stadiums issue). Last year when living in Perth for by-election, Centre Alliance - would have voted for them again but didn't stand in NSW. I evaluate parties on their policies each election. The Liberals gave me nothing substantive to work with this time, but offered the status quo which I read as Government instability, split party, ideologues lurching further to the extreme right into PHON grounds. That is why a party should produce policy on what their plans are.

If people were "bought" by promised tax cuts, then they will lose them by spending more on private health insurance. I think the markets see that as most of the PHI companies stock has risen well this morning.
Franking credits is a tax loop hole that needs closing.
Negative Gearing needs reviewing to change the housing situation from an investment market back to a housing market.
Climate policy - well at least they had one.
I think market forces will dictate Adani. Coal is a dying fuel source to the point where it will cost more to dig it out of the ground than it can be sold for - like UK coal in the 80's.
Childcare for free - well that free's up peoples time so they can get back into the workforce and reduce the benefits so they don't get more than they put back in. How else do you think they can get back into work if they can't afford the childcare to give them the time to do so?
Yes. In fact I would take it as far as to suggest Australia is beholden to a few pressure groups that will take hell and high water to move. How franking credits became an expected entitlement is beyond me. The real estate industry and fear campaign around NG makes it somewhat hard to move on. The fact that so many are mortgaged to the hilt, places progressives at a disadvantage from word go. The bigger picture just won't sell it. Our declining services do impact, but only those directly impacted. Most view the shocking state of aged care as too far into the future to raise concern. The ever growing out of pocket hospital costs for procedures again not known until encountered.
The Conservative side of politics is great at placing blame and promoting fear and greed onto a population with little inclination or desire to venture too deeply.
We get the politicians we deserve. A shame for those that came before and fought hard battles for rights that allowed Australia over time to develop one of the highest and fairest living stands/countries in the world. Narrow interests increasingly win out today. Little else to say on the matter really.
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Old May 20th 2019, 7:16 am
  #146  
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Default Re: Election

I see the narrative in more global terms. In most develop countries populations are aging. Aging populations tend to vote for political parties with more traditionally conservative policies. It shouldn't be a surprise that progressive parties tend to struggle to attract voters.

As for the future of the Australian economy, if they continues with the same policies it will likely continue to get the same results . In the short term RBA has a little more leverage to work but if growth continues to be lousy it's not in their remit to restructure Australias economy.
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Old May 20th 2019, 11:17 am
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
I don't have a team. I said I was a swing voter. This time it was Labor,and that was the first time I believe. Recent state election Liberal (although it was close due to the stadiums issue). Last year when living in Perth for by-election, Centre Alliance - would have voted for them again but didn't stand in NSW. I evaluate parties on their policies each election. The Liberals gave me nothing substantive to work with this time, but offered the status quo which I read as Government instability, split party, ideologues lurching further to the extreme right into PHON grounds. That is why a party should produce policy on what their plans are.

If people were "bought" by promised tax cuts, then they will lose them by spending more on private health insurance. I think the markets see that as most of the PHI companies stock has risen well this morning.
Franking credits is a tax loop hole that needs closing.
Negative Gearing needs reviewing to change the housing situation from an investment market back to a housing market.
Climate policy - well at least they had one.
I think market forces will dictate Adani. Coal is a dying fuel source to the point where it will cost more to dig it out of the ground than it can be sold for - like UK coal in the 80's.
Childcare for free - well that free's up peoples time so they can get back into the workforce and reduce the benefits so they don't get more than they put back in. How else do you think they can get back into work if they can't afford the childcare to give them the time to do so?
The policies are here.

https://www.liberal.org.au/our-policies

There's quite a few. Many work in progress projects from the past 6 years. Rome wasn't built in a day. Morrison was very shrewed in his approach. He had each policy worked out, some are very complex so he didn't talk about the complex ones. Kept it simple. Only spoke about them when asked.

In contrast Labors key policies drove a wedge through the voters. They were controversial at best and they more they talked the bigger the hole got. Many policies had no detail. It was a mess.

Franking credits - messing with peoples long laid out retire plans - bad. Phasing better
Negative Gearing - is it going to drop house prices? No answer. So we stay with default.
Climate - Libs have a plan too. It's in the policies.
Child care. On an 85% rebate at $100 per day a minimum wage earner can pay off 1 day of care in about 40 mins. Let them contribute.

Yep, lots of in fighting no doubt. In some respects its healthy the Liberal Party have varied ideas to fight over. If Labor weren't so bad, that should have got them over the line.

Last edited by Beoz; May 20th 2019 at 11:32 am.
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Old May 20th 2019, 11:27 am
  #148  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Not buying the attempted policy have stated top end tax cuts? Are you reading your own manifesto?
It looks like the voters didn't buy the "top end of town" slogan on repeat either.

I recall, before the election, I tried to drag it out of you what the "top end of town" really was.

I think we settled on the top 60%.
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Old May 20th 2019, 11:10 pm
  #149  
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Default Re: Election

It does really open up the question. Who are the blinded and bigots?

https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect....html#comments
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Old May 21st 2019, 3:07 am
  #150  
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Default Re: Election

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
It does really open up the question. Who are the blinded and bigots?

https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect....html#comments
Just confirms how far the Liberal Party has slipped over time to arrive at the position it finds itself in. Progressive is not a term most anyone would label this present party, which in turns makes a mockery of the alleged reasons for voting for such a party. The most laughable part muse surely be Frazer's humanitarian reaching out to the Vietnamese Boat People. Just goes towards highlighting how far to the Right this party has gone and to what degree they will stoop in depravity of human rights in modern times compared to the party of old.
I suppose if you trawl the streets of inner Melbourne you will come up with a Liberal voter, or one that will play the role and allow themselves to be a mouth piece for the Liberal propaganda machine.
Really scratching the bottom of the barrel using this as a 'positive' furthering a party devoid of declared policy.
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