Election
 

Did anyone watch the leaders' debate tonight?

Comment away.

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God, no. I had some paint to watch dry.

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Of course. It was comedy

• BS needed a lectern - he kept dropping his notes.
• It was supposed to be a undecided crowd. How come they didn't applaud the WA GST top up? I doubt it was an undecided crowd.
• Speaking of the crowd, a Liberal Senator and an Opposition Leader wife were in the crowd. Yep - not undecided.
• I actually expected BS to get a roasting, and it wasn't as bad as I thought it could have been.
• In summary BS is un-electable for the following reasons.

1. Before you can focus on climate, tax, child care worker wages, electric cars, pensioner dentist trips, wage increases, you need to have a budget for these items and an idea of what they cost. You can only form a budget by understanding your economy and how you are going to make money. I think every one agrees BS doesn't understand economics, where the money comes from, so it makes the rest of the items irrelevant.
2. In society we have people who are doers, people who are not, people who are wealthy, people who are not, people who like to work in private industries, people who work in public. I get the sense that BS isn't really for all, and is really pitching an us against them mentality and creating class warfare and subsequent hate in the community. Where on the other side where the uneducated are name calling "the big end of town" which really isn't the case. For example the LNP changed the subsidies on child care recently where the poorer in society now get back 85% which is a bit much but is what it is. That's not really the work of a party who is only interested in the "top end of town". We can't live with a government who doesn't look after all and that's what you would get with the ALP.

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No

I'm trying to avoid as much election coverage as possible as I know who I'm voting for and am not going to change my mind - it's hard though!

Leaders debates should be unnecessary as voters should base who they are voting for on a party's manifesto, not on what a leader says in a partisan debate. Unfortunately, too many voters base their decision on personality or how a politician looks or speaks. Pathetic but there it is

CFMEU Billy is lying through his teeth though and hiding the true costs of his destructive policies. Unfortunately for our country, he's going to win - he's home and hosed - as too many voters want all the free stuff that he's offering from his magic socialist goody bag

We're f**ked

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Same.

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They are not teeth, they are veneers.

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No as farcical at best. Still a shame politics are held in such disdain in Australia. We clearly need changes in direction to a return to some of the values hardly touched upon anymore.
Neither want to touch on excessive immigration, which is playing a substantial part in lowering living standards by flattening wages and leading to under employment but probably the only thing keeping over inflated rents and house prices from collapsing.
How would anyone vote for a party so clearly for the few, that has punished the vulnerable relentlessly not too for ages, dissimilar to UK, declined repeatedly to instigate a Royal Commission into Banking, which clearly was corrupt for ages, generally penalising the vulnerable in society ,while seeking to reward the well off and big business with tax cuts.
The Coalition cannot shake off their neo liberal philosophical stance that has now seen Australians work some of the longest hours in the developed world, unpaid overtime more the norm now for workers, with declining education standards and hospital waiting lists. (not forgetting some very substantial out of pocket costs even if on a private insurance in instances)
Enough surely without going further, and much more could be said with regards the poor standard of 'play' in Australia, to ensure a little thought into which lot the cross is placed next to come election day. Remember it can get worse, very much worse . Life is far removed from purely being an economy but should be inclusive of humanity and inclusion. Sadly the Liberal Party is far removed from the days of Menzies, who while a hero of Howard, would be regarded by many as a 'lefty' these days .

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Are you still unhappy with your job? Might be time for a move - I think we've discussed this before.

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I guess the sales targets are being unmet at the moment with the poor economy . That being the reason you write such nonsense. That and the realisation that your beloved Coalition Party is a dud job, fully deserving a sound flogging in the coming election. It appears Morrison is something of a one man band, with the rest under home detention, not being trusted to trash the brand further into the gutter. Although how much further such a tarnished brand can be .
But you are right. So many years under neo liberal economics has provoked many into thinking a move may well be a sound idea. Hopefully the forth coming election will bring in change, so badly needed and a government in place that actually cares about people. Not spin a few lines pre election.

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I don't believe that's true. I think it's the politicians people have an issue with. There is no one around at the moment (imo) who is capable of being a reasonable PM, nor are there enough rational mps capable of filling a cabinet. People can't be bothered because both of the major parties are currently shit and none of the others have the wherewithal to run the country.

In answer to the OPs question, dear dog no, why would a rational person subject themselves to such nonsense?

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I don't think I have lived in a country where politics features with more disdain than Australia. Even more with an apathy that suggests a total disinterest. Hardly discussed in public at all.This in turn makes the job easier for pollies when the public have little expectation anyway, but far more dangerous for democracy as well.
Although both parties are below par, the move to the Right, with the Lib's over the past decade with certain policies to match, many unable to get through thanks to the Senate ,has prevented us ending up in a far worse place than could easily have landed. There is a difference. Opting out of the political system is hardly an option, if at all wanting a stake regardless of how small, in the governance of the nation.
We get the politicians we deserve at the end of the day. No compulsion to agree of course .

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If it wasn't for the poor state of the ALP the Libs might have well given up by now. However they have been given a sniff with the odds shortening by the day.

It's a real shame our feds couldn't follow the successes, professionalism and the "do it all" attitude of the NSW Liberal government. Lots of lessons to be learnt there.

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Don't confuse not watching a television program with apathy.

I've already voted.

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Me too. I am going to take more of the same please given the policies of the others are a disaster for this country. Nothing more to be sold by either lot.

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Well I mostly did it because Mr K had to, as he's leaving the country tomorrow (I'm lagging behind a bit) and I wanted to vote with him, but I have to say it's a relief once you know it's done.

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I certainly don't confuse not watching a TV debate with apathy. I refer to the long standing disinterest in politics in Australia. I find it a shame when decisions on voting are made on ill deserved entitlements like franking credits for example . Be nice to get a statesman above the politics of lies and deceit with the sole intention of doing what is best for all that live in this country. Not a privileged section.

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Oh those franking credits. I'll be struggling to keep my luxury yacht.

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I've come to the conclusion the only reason the libs still have a support level above single digits is because people are both NOT paying any attention to politics, and are greedy/stupid. After 8 years of inept, corrupt, failure it's the only possible explanation. Seriously, they have succeeded in doing absolutely nothing positive, specifically including the economy (that they have obviously no clue how to manage).

A dartboard would be more proactive and better able to come up with positive policies.

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BS doesn't know how franking credits work. Good luck with that.

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So what's the alternative?

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You need to mention "the big end of town". However that line is becoming very tired.

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It's got so bad, basically almost anybody apart from the Far Right knuckle jobs apart from the present incumbents. .

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Well no its not. The big end of town with their tax evasion and abusive behaviour has been sussed out, by ever more people and people know Australia was and can be again better.

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A government of the people for the people.

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ALP in a pretty good state, thanks for asking. A pretty decent team to match. Far exceeding the Lib's who cannot be trusted by own party not to screw up. Hence they are being kept under house detention.

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That's a really cool idea, but first and foremost, the people need things, which 99.9% of the time are financed by money. Without the $$$$ there is nothing for the people.

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Here's an idea. Cutting taxes to the well heeled not the best idea nor allowing big business to get round paying taxes. The more they cut, the less for social services, education, hospitals.
A disgrace in a place like Australia some 14% are living at the margins. A disgrace how our living standards have been sacrificed over the past few decades just as a vote for the Lib's in number, will ensure more austerity on ever more people as more of their policies are introduced that failed a few years ago.

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"Dartboard 2019 - The Smarter Alternative"

You put various policies around the dartboard and randomly pick someone to throw a dart at the dartboard. They you carry out the policy hit.

By random chance you are likely to beat the politicians.

Key thing in reality is you have to have 'representatives' that will try and build things, actively solve problems, and who lose an appendage every time they get caught in corrupt and/or criminal activities.

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Well we all know that "well heeled" individuals pay more tax than the rest of us. The top 10% of earners pay 50% of all tax in Australia. That myth doesn't really work any more. It's coming unstuck.

As for companies I see today BS is going to refuse tax deductions for companies who have links to tax havens such as Ireland. Wow. You have an office in Ireland ..... boom .... no tax deductions.

So this means quite simply, Australia just becomes more costly to do business with, and being such a small market, and a costly market (rents, salaries, etc) why bother, just pull out, there goes the jobs, there goes many other tax revenues, there goes the other business and jobs that rely on the trickle down.

This guy is a bloody disaster. Can't wait to see the multinationals flee Australia.

What this disaster of a union puppet doesn't realise is that pushing money through other countries is a global affair, not an Australian one. Australia is a tiny market. There is very little need for multi nationals to be here. Until a global tax stance is in place, some type of global tax treaty, Australia should be doing everything to entice, not sending them away, but that's the type of destroyers the ALP are.

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I think many do that anyway

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Instead of moaning about Ireland, we should become Ireland. What they did on corporate taxes has smashed their economy into orbit. Their per capita GDP and HDI score have skyrocketed in recent years. Cut taxes and they will come - it's not rocket surgery

It will never happen here though as both sides are punch drunk on taxes, with nobody prepared to make the hard tax reforms needed. We are already, arguably, the richest country in the world but we could be the Liechtenstein of the Southern Hemisphere

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Absolutely. Let's be realistic. Its Australia. Not exactly an attraction for business like the US is where you can keep a 35% corporation tax rate.

Until the world decides it will implement a coordinated corporate tax rate, it's all about competition, which is why Singapore, Ireland and the Caymen Islands do what they do.

And to be fair, the current government has already implemented corporate tax avoidance strategies. One where real avoidance is being investigated. If you read to the end of this article it shows the challenges in doing so.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-...74?pfmredir=sm

Again BS doesn't really understand the challenges faced in this arena and the side effects of being black and white about the topic. Poor fellow is not very worldly.

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We should 'become Ireland'. A knee jerk ideological reaction, I expect, with little thought into the repercussions of becoming an Ireland, or leprechaun economy as known,as if Australia hasn't already created enough of its own problems without adding more of that country being referred to.
Why does above writer constantly seek corporate welfare and to absolve tax multi billion dollar organisations? Why should foreign companies pay only 0.2% tax in Ireland, yet home based Irish business pays over 12%? Talk about unfair competition. Of course Irish taxpayers can pay far more than that.
So lets get this right. It is okay for foreign business as they employ workers who pay tax on the money earned that a foreign employer is paying them for their labour, while based in Ireland , but quite okay for them to pay next to nothing on profit?
While these companies pat lip service to Irish workers, they actually ship in huge numbers of foreign workers who in the process place extreme pressure on the almost dysfunctional Dublin housing market, putting it out of reach for the average Irish worker.
In the meantime mention the health system in Ireland or to an Irish abroad, and most will tell you of the dreadful and declining state of Irish health. Simply no money in the kitty to pay for it or much else with regards welfare and pensions are a topic of debate.
The last thing Australia wants is to emulate Ireland. I suppose it would reverse population growth though. The fact of the matter is, Australia is a great producer of raw materials and grain and farm produce. There is no need to give it away for little return to Australian economy . On the other hand, Ireland produces quite little. They like Iceland (take a long hard look what happened to Iceland) have little to get by in the world. Cayman Islands? A place where the rich corporates park there money in secrecy. Contrary what is needed is transparency and to force open such places that store ill gotten gains. Money should be circulating not piling up in ever bigger holes out of sight, with massive gains for the few.

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What is needed is a joint will to stop the rot and seek to repair the damage. What BS doesn't understand is the implications of steady as you go and allow the rot to continue. Ireland is paying a high price favouring foreign enterprise paying little while Irish business and tax payers carry the can which is proven to be nowhere near enough to implement essential services. Singapore on the other hand has socialist policies in place to lessen the burden on own citizens.
What's not being very worldly is failing to realise the consequences of giving multi nationals free 'tax rides', while being swayed by failed eighties drip down theories that the benefit will at some point reach all. Which of course is why we are in the mess we are now with large segments of voters searching populist solutions because the system offers them nothing.

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I have to agree that the old model of governance and 'steady as she goes' is really past it's sell by date. People should have realised that it's really not working any more, and that it certainly won't work when deep learning automation causes mass unemployability. The problem is, politicians have stopped trying to fix problems, and just try and exploit them. So there is nobody left with the wit and intelligence to actually look at the full complexity of a country in the now resolutely global context, and understand it, let alone fix it.

At least nobody outside china...

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Very true. Likely China will increasingly lead on more fronts. The West and the democratic process appear to be tying itself in knots as voters flee to populist causes. There certainly seems little forward thinking. It's as if it is all too hard with the inclination being made to attempt to manage the situation as well as possible, at any given time and either hope for the best or disregard it as being someone's else's mess to solve further along the road.

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Last time I looked, Ireland is an advanced Western liberal democracy. If the Irish people are unhappy with what's happening in their country - with any aspect - they have it within their means, at election time to vote and take their country in a different direction. Therefore, it looks to me like the majority of Irish people are happy with the way their country is going. Turns out, surprise surprise, that a lot of people prefer having decent paying jobs and economic wealth to the opposite.

But then, the left and democracy - real democracy - are rarely on the same page! The left can only really prosper when there are a lot of poor people - and being kept poor

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If I hear some idiot on an idiotic tv ad say 'a fair go' one more time I may lose my mind. What little of it I have left anyway.

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Every likelihood the Irish people will vote change, providing of course there is a party offering change to vote for. That is far from certain which results in ever more turning off politics as being of any use in their lives.
Most Irish people will tell you if you ask and they are indeed informed, that it has long passed left/right politics. The choice is far from clear. The right leaning governments have set the course going back years , What most people want is job security, a stable economy, a break in austerity and a return to decency. A world without concern about the standard of care if ill, would be a start. But as I wrote Australia has experienced enough living declines of its own, without using Ireland as a poor example.