asprilla

...ok, not really. I just thought that this BBC article was particularly interesting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7422981.stm

...I wasn't so much interested in the claims that the moral vacuum will be filled by "radical islam", which I doubt....but the following part made me stop and think:

"The bishop, who was born in Pakistan of Christian parents, said Christianity had knitted together a "rabble of mutually hostile tribes" to create British identity.

But Dr Nazir-Ali said the loss of what he called the Christian consensus had led to the breakdown of the family, abuse of drugs and alcohol, and a loss of respect for other people. "


Is the bishop right ? Are the values of family and respect in decline in the UK, as a result of the gradual fall of christianity ?

I've got a feeling that there might be some truth in what he says...

Eastend Girl

I think so too; it's obvious when you think about it

asprilla

Its hard to judge though.... I can only look at it through my own life experiences. I'm only in my early 30's. Who am I to say that Britishness is starting to degenerate ?

Perhaps if you asked the question to a group of pensioners they could give more insight. Would have to be a mixed bunch though....and not just christians.

Fenton Beasley

I haven't.

Moving away from religion and thinking for yourself can only be a good thing.

The breakdown of society and respect for other people has always been there. It's just been brought on by an age of consumerism and the arrival of Thatcher in the 80's.

Just my twopen'th; but I respect yours.

asprilla

I agree that moving away from religion seems to be a good thing.... but is society really better off when people have complete freedom to think and act for themselves ? Perhaps christian values influenced society in a positive way, and now that they are fading, perhaps we might look back and think "things were better back then" !!

asher

well I hate the thought of the narrow minded bigots who used christianity as a cloak to hide their nastiness

but sunday churchgoing did seem to instill certain values that are lacking today, it is not so much the lack of organised religion as that there is nothing to take it's place which would encourage a community spirit.

sonlymewalter

All religions are two faced even Christianity. We only have to look at history to see this. As an example, even as early as the 70's people were ostracised for not being married and having kids.

Whilst religion is not the answer, working within the ten commandments at least creates values. You don't need the church to do this.

Fenton Beasley

Society can handle the truth. Religion is irrelevant today and even back then. Back then it was just a way for "The Church" to police the masses. Now the 10 commandments just replicates normal, decent human values. "Thou shalt not kill"? that's not religion, that's just common sense.

Honest, decent human values will always be there; regardless of some silly hokum and witchcraft called "religion".

sonlymewalter

Whilst I agree religion isn't the answer, I don't belive human values will always be there.

Values need to be taught to ensure society values are adhered to. Whilst religion is no longer the vehicle of brining these teachings to the masses, what else can make sure these values are instilled?

rabsody

Well predominantly it has to be parents to their children and reinforced by school and societal norms. But as we too often see, that ain't always the case.

rabsody

Doesn't every generation say that though about succeding generations.

There are many factors involved in this 'breakdown' of values though (IMO):

• Transient nature of our world today, people moving abroad for work or a better life which leads to breakdown of extended family unit i.e. who's there to look after mum and dad when they get old like would have been done previously.
• Feminism - not that I am against it of course, but it has drastically changed our society in regard restructuring family life/work, women's ability to leave marriages, marriage no longer a prerequisite for having children etc.
• Capitalism - I'm alright Jack! Thanks Maggie
• Consumerism - advertising has created a "never satisfied" mentality required to get us to keep buying stuff we don't really need.
• The growing disparity between rich and poor in many western countries leads to a seething undercurrent and welfare culture.
• Lack of community - everyone's too busy trying to earn a crust to engage.

etc etc .....

moneypenny20

What she said But also, what is Britishness? Britain, like most other countries is a mix of nations over hundreds of years. Britishness is what you want it to be and with the mass media coverage on everything, you see everything from around the country in minute detail. In the 'old' days, there wasn't the 24/7 coverage and possibly it was assumed that everyone felt the same as each other, regardless of whether they did or not. Don't think it's anything to do with religion or lack of.

Fenton Beasley

I think we were born with the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. Humans have to get along for the sake of the species and evolution has programmed us to not rip each other's heads off as soon as we come out of the womb. There are always exceptions and monsters but generally, humans know what's good and bad.

Parents, siblings, peers and our own consciences are where we should look for moral guidance, not pixies, elves and God.