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Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

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Old Feb 20th 2018, 5:25 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Only it's not, is it?

The richer you are, the more mechanisms come into play to cut your tax bill, the more you can pay people to fiddle the figures for you. The effective tax rate for the rich can be lower than that for the middle class. In fact you can arrange it so you can be extremely wealthy, and pay no tax at all.

The tenth man would claim that he made a loss on his negatively geared property portfolio, that his bribes to politicians cost him significantly, his international earnings were hidden in an offshore account, and that the cost of paying a tax accountant to find and exploit all these loopholes.

He would regretfully state that he could manage to pay $3.43, but that if they swapped the 'tax' so that it fell more on everyone's consumption equally, it would be fairer. So those four over there should be paying $5, and he would be happy to do the same. Obviously this wouldn't cover the $100, so they would have to borrow the rest.

Meet the 48 millionaires who pay no income tax, not even the Medicare levy


For those that understand, the bias in the argument is obvious.
For those that don't want to understand, no explanation is ever going to go in.
Which is why consumption taxes are better - one of the simplest, most efficient taxes a government can implement. The wealthy, because they have more money, consume more and would pay more tax. The less well off consume less and would pay less tax - but at least they would be paying some tax towards the services that they, predominately, enjoy. The black economy has to, by and large, pay them too

Increase consumption taxes and reduce income and corporate taxes

The only problem with consumption taxes is that the left hate them because they limit wealth redistribution and cannot be targeted towards their core, lower income, constituency that largely elects them
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 5:44 am
  #47  
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Which is why consumption taxes are better - one of the simplest, most efficient taxes a government can implement. The wealthy, because they have more money, consume more and would pay more tax. The less well off consume less and would pay less tax - but at least they would be paying some tax towards the services that they, predominately, enjoy. The black economy has to, by and large, pay them too

Increase consumption taxes and reduce income and corporate taxes

The only problem with consumption taxes is that the left hate them because they limit wealth redistribution and cannot be targeted towards their core, lower income, constituency that largely elects them
A regressive tax that further inflicts pain on the poor and middle class. So the poorer don't need to consume as well? Perhaps you mean a luxury tax on non essentials? Although I doubt it. Any other tax would further burden the load of those already finding it difficult.


The correct way is for those able to pay their fair share.
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 5:54 am
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
A regressive tax that further inflicts pain on the poor and middle class. So the poorer don't need to consume as well? Perhaps you mean a luxury tax on non essentials? Although I doubt it. Any other tax would further burden the load of those already finding it difficult.


The correct way is for those able to pay their fair share.
Luxuries are already GST'ed. Essentials are not. Were you not aware?


Things that are GST-free include:

most basic food
some education courses, course materials and related excursions or field trips
some medical, health and care services
some medical aids and appliances
some medicines
some childcare services
some religious services and charitable activities
supplies of accommodation and meals to residents of retirement villages by certain operators
cars for disabled people to use, as long as certain requirements are met
water, sewerage and drainage
international transport and related matters
precious metals
sales through duty-free shops
grants of land by government
farmland
international mail
exports
sales of businesses as going concerns
some telecommunications supplies
eligible emissions units.
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 6:02 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
A regressive tax that further inflicts pain on the poor and middle class. So the poorer don't need to consume as well? Perhaps you mean a luxury tax on non essentials? Although I doubt it. Any other tax would further burden the load of those already finding it difficult.

The correct way is for those able to pay their fair share.
Yeah, that's why I added in the "we'll each pay $5" part of my scenario correction. The rich love the idea of 'consumption' taxes because it means that they don't have to bear their share. GST is effectively levied on the majority of goods, meaning the rich get an effective 'free pass'.
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 6:03 am
  #50  
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Luxuries are already GST'ed. Essentials are not. Were you not aware?


Things that are GST-free include:

most basic food
some education courses, course materials and related excursions or field trips
some medical, health and care services
some medical aids and appliances
some medicines
some childcare services
some religious services and charitable activities
supplies of accommodation and meals to residents of retirement villages by certain operators
cars for disabled people to use, as long as certain requirements are met
water, sewerage and drainage
international transport and related matters
precious metals
sales through duty-free shops
grants of land by government
farmland
international mail
exports
sales of businesses as going concerns
some telecommunications supplies
eligible emissions units.
Which is why not a good idea. The essential things in life being value added taxed only increase the burden on those already finding it tough going.
The greater inequality the more social issues and division. There is a reason Denmark is constantly voted the happiest country or near enough.
Little to do with left/right bulls, just good sense. The role of good government is not just to further the lot of a few..........
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 6:18 am
  #51  
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Yeah, that's why I added in the "we'll each pay $5" part of my scenario correction. The rich love the idea of 'consumption' taxes because it means that they don't have to bear their share. GST is effectively levied on the majority of goods, meaning the rich get an effective 'free pass'.
Like this. I'm glad at least someone else has the ability to reason and look beyond self gain and greed.


Although it is only a couple of authors peddling the largely flawed, neo liberal, tired old crXp on here, to a casual observer it must appear Australia is seeking to/or become a bastion of narrow self interest with declining values beyond greed and slugging to the quarter of the population ever slipping down the greasy pole. Not the sort of Australia it once was, most certainly.
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 6:30 am
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Which is why not a good idea. The essential things in life being value added taxed only increase the burden on those already finding it tough going.
The greater inequality the more social issues and division. There is a reason Denmark is constantly voted the happiest country or near enough.
Little to do with left/right bulls, just good sense. The role of good government is not just to further the lot of a few..........
The essentials are not taxed.

The ciggies and Foxtel for those on the dole are.

Tell me you aren't going to argue Foxtel and cigs should be tax free because the poor like them?
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 6:31 am
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Like this. I'm glad at least someone else has the ability to reason and look beyond self gain and greed.


Although it is only a couple of authors peddling the largely flawed, neo liberal, tired old crXp on here, to a casual observer it must appear Australia is seeking to/or become a bastion of narrow self interest with declining values beyond greed and slugging to the quarter of the population ever slipping down the greasy pole. Not the sort of Australia it once was, most certainly.
Actually most are arguing with your train of thought. Probably because most on here work hard, and contribute to society. You obviously want it all for free and "most" find that attitude a disgrace.
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 6:37 am
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Actually most are arguing with your train of thought. Probably because most on here work hard, and contribute to society. You obviously want it all for free and "most" find that attitude a disgrace.
When you've lived in Australia a little longer, you may well come to the conclusion that this country was based on a fair society, not one that benefits the rich and punishes the vulnerable or ordinary working people just because of some past by date flawed ideology.


Those that work the hardest tend to be the most powerless .....you somehow confuse the accumulation of wealth with hard work.
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 6:44 am
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
The essentials are not taxed.
Yeah, there's no GST on electricity or gas, it would be silly otherwise ....
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 6:49 am
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
The essentials are not taxed.

The ciggies and Foxtel for those on the dole are.

Tell me you aren't going to argue Foxtel and cigs should be tax free because the poor like them?
Don't wriggle out of debate as is your inclination. You were referring not just to tax on cig's and Foxtel, but an overall consumption tax on everything.


Besides having to put up with some of the rot going around, you can hardly blame someone reaching for a fag (now most expensive in world, I believe, in Nanny State Australia, leading in itself to affordability issues for those whom smoke,) Foxtel? So what? Keeping people entertained can perhaps alleviate other issues of a far more anti social direction or desperation and impact on health services.
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 8:06 am
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Yeah, there's no GST on electricity or gas, it would be silly otherwise ....
Go hydro electric if GST is important to you.
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 8:10 am
  #58  
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
A regressive tax that further inflicts pain on the poor and middle class. So the poorer don't need to consume as well? Perhaps you mean a luxury tax on non essentials? Although I doubt it. Any other tax would further burden the load of those already finding it difficult.


The correct way is for those able to pay their fair share.
Looks like the economically illiiterate Herman the German needs a lesson in (really) basic economics

Someone earning $10000 spends $5000 on goods and services that attract GST at 10%. He pays $500 in consumption tax

Someone earning $50000 spends $25000 on goods and services that attract GST at 10%. He pays $2500 in consumption tax

Someone earning $100000 spends $50000 on goods and services that attract GST at 10%. He pays $5000 in consumption tax

Someone earning $250000 spends $125000 on goods and services that attract GST at 10%. He pays $12500 in consumption tax

Someone earning $500000 spends $250000 on goods and services that attract GST at 10%. He pays $25000 in consumption tax

Someone earning $1000000 spends $500000 on goods and services that attract GST at 10%. He pays $50000 in tax

You getting the picture yet Herman?

The more people earn, the more they consume, the more tax they pay

The richer you are, the more you consume, the more tax you pay

It ain't rocket surgery

Hope this helps
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 8:15 am
  #59  
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Only it's not, is it?

The richer you are, the more mechanisms come into play to cut your tax bill, the more you can pay people to fiddle the figures for you. The effective tax rate for the rich can be lower than that for the middle class. In fact you can arrange it so you can be extremely wealthy, and pay no tax at all.

The tenth man would claim that he made a loss on his negatively geared property portfolio, that his bribes to politicians cost him significantly, his international earnings were hidden in an offshore account, and that the cost of paying a tax accountant to find and exploit all these loopholes.

He would regretfully state that he could manage to pay $3.43, but that if they swapped the 'tax' so that it fell more on everyone's consumption equally, it would be fairer. So those four over there should be paying $5, and he would be happy to do the same. Obviously this wouldn't cover the $100, so they would have to borrow the rest.

Meet the 48 millionaires who pay no income tax, not even the Medicare levy


For those that understand, the bias in the argument is obvious.
For those that don't want to understand, no explanation is ever going to go in.
And yet, in Australia. More than 50% of people who work and pay income tax, take more out of the system than they put in. Higher earners pay the most tax and carry the 50%

However, the 50% moan about how much the rich make and demand that they pay more - and Billy Boy Shorten is now buying into their argument

That's not guesswork, that's how it is

Higher income earners therefore need some tax breaks. That's fair
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Old Feb 20th 2018, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Corporate Tax Cuts? Better Personal Cuts

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
When you've lived in Australia a little longer, you may well come to the conclusion that this country was based on a fair society, not one that benefits the rich and punishes the vulnerable or ordinary working people just because of some past by date flawed ideology.


Those that work the hardest tend to be the most powerless .....you somehow confuse the accumulation of wealth with hard work.
Here ya go Herman:
| Human Development Reports

I know you are economically illiterate but give that website a go. It's not difficult to understand (so you should be okay). It makes for interesting reading

Hope this helps
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