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Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Old Jul 7th 2020, 2:48 am
  #946  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Beoz
What would be the problem if these people were COVID free or spent 2 weeks in quarrentine at their own expense?
Well, for one thing, who would be the arbiters and guardians involved, in terms of checking and maintaining that COVID-free status?

Private sector contractors on minimum wages and training perhaps...? We've just seen how well that works, in Victoria...
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 3:11 am
  #947  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
I don't trust people to do the right thing and not lie and I don't trust the airport workers/taxi drivers/Quarantine hotel security staff etc who'll be coming in close contact with the passengers travellers on route.
Right. So you would deny many industries, many livelihoods, many people seeing loved ones for the next 2 year's because of trust?

Maybe a better way would be to fix the things that can't be trusted, including testing.

We need to learn and develop ways to live with this. Locking down every time is not sustainable for the next 2 years.

Time to move forward.
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 3:12 am
  #948  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by abner
Well, for one thing, who would be the arbiters and guardians involved, in terms of checking and maintaining that COVID-free status?

Private sector contractors on minimum wages and training perhaps...? We've just seen how well that works, in Victoria...
That is a good question. If that's one of things that needs changing, developing, improving, then so be it. Time to move forward.
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 4:02 am
  #949  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Beoz
That is a good question. If that's one of things that needs changing, developing, improving, then so be it. Time to move forward.
But move forward how, exactly? During this crisis, we've been *badly* served by reliance on private-sector tour-operator reporting on customer health (e.g. Ruby Princess passengers), and by low-rent private-sector security operations in quarantine hotels (leading to the current explosion of cases in Victoria).

So allowing health-reporting disincentives to persist, or lowest-common-denominator enforcement of social-distancing requirements to be seen as sufficient, within any renewed version of Australia's tourism industry--whether for domestic or international tourists--is likely to be profoundly counter-productive.

A Trumpian "time to move forward" won't work.

How would you propose to open the doors in a more considered way, Beoz?
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 8:55 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
I don't trust people to do the right thing and not lie and I don't trust the airport workers/taxi drivers/Quarantine hotel security staff etc who'll be coming in close contact with the passengers travellers on route.
and you're absolutely right not to trust them, especially when work is scarce and people know which answers are needed on the questionnaire. In the words of Jack Nicholson I have such a lack of faith in humanity, that I look both ways before crossing a one way street.
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 10:22 am
  #951  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by abner
But move forward how, exactly? During this crisis, we've been *badly* served by reliance on private-sector tour-operator reporting on customer health (e.g. Ruby Princess passengers), and by low-rent private-sector security operations in quarantine hotels (leading to the current explosion of cases in Victoria).

So allowing health-reporting disincentives to persist, or lowest-common-denominator enforcement of social-distancing requirements to be seen as sufficient, within any renewed version of Australia's tourism industry--whether for domestic or international tourists--is likely to be profoundly counter-productive.

A Trumpian "time to move forward" won't work.

How would you propose to open the doors in a more considered way, Beoz?
Firstly, I didn't say let's fling open the doors now. I said we need to start thinking about how we can start to open the doors because this virus is going to be with us for a while yet, it may die out like the Spanish Flu, we might get a vaccine, but we can't rely on either.

Yes there have been historical mistakes and that's a good thing when it comes to learning what not to do.

You talk about untrained security guards in Melbourne that caused an outbreak. That didn't happen in Sydney. So let's take the Sydney model and copy it in Melbourne.

Testing technology for me would be the biggest winner in moving forward. It could be quicker and more accurate. Lets catch people at the border, or after a shorter time in quarantine.

There you go, 2 ideas from Beoz. Rather than thinking negatively, positive ideas would be a good start by all.
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 12:19 pm
  #952  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Yep. We need to start planning for the international border opening. Obviously it won't be free reign but there are ways and means to make it happen, accepting we might see fires. Life must move on.
Originally Posted by Beoz
We need to learn and develop ways to live with this. Locking down every time is not sustainable for the next 2 years.

Time to move forward.
Originally Posted by Beoz
That is a good question. If that's one of things that needs changing, developing, improving, then so be it. Time to move forward.
Originally Posted by Beoz
Firstly, I didn't say let's fling open the doors now. I said we need to start thinking about how we can start to open the doors because this virus is going to be with us for a while yet...

Yes there have been historical mistakes and that's a good thing when it comes to learning what not to do.....
Testing technology for me would be the biggest winner in moving forward. .
There's a lot of 'we need' happening here. You comment as though no one else thinks like this. As though governments are oblivious about sorting out the economic nightmare. That they're not attempting to move forward and aren't already planning on how best to move forward. Maybe it's just your writing style but it comes across that you're suggesting that just because some of us are going with the softly softly approach that we don't want to move forward. It's a strange mindset imo. If I'm reading you wrong, I apologise. I realise how much you love to play devil's advocate.
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 12:46 pm
  #953  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
There's a lot of 'we need' happening here. You comment as though no one else thinks like this. As though governments are oblivious about sorting out the economic nightmare. That they're not attempting to move forward and aren't already planning on how best to move forward. Maybe it's just your writing style but it comes across that you're suggesting that just because some of us are going with the softly softly approach that we don't want to move forward. It's a strange mindset imo. If I'm reading you wrong, I apologise.
There was a lot of resistance when I suggested we need to start thinking how we can get the borders open - oh and one point, not for a second will the mean being COVID free. That should never be the plan. It just needs to be managed. If it means the elderly and the unhealthy need to be extra careful, then so be it.

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
I realise how much you love to play devil's advocate.
Hell yes.
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 3:01 pm
  #954  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Firstly, I didn't say let's fling open the doors now. I said we need to start thinking about how we can start to open the doors because this virus is going to be with us for a while yet, it may die out like the Spanish Flu, we might get a vaccine, but we can't rely on either.

Yes there have been historical mistakes and that's a good thing when it comes to learning what not to do.

You talk about untrained security guards in Melbourne that caused an outbreak. That didn't happen in Sydney. So let's take the Sydney model and copy it in Melbourne.

Testing technology for me would be the biggest winner in moving forward. It could be quicker and more accurate. Lets catch people at the border, or after a shorter time in quarantine.

There you go, 2 ideas from Beoz. Rather than thinking negatively, positive ideas would be a good start by all.
So, train the guards then.

And, improve the testing technology.

Wow, that's great--and very positive--thinking that absolutely nobody has been pursuing up until now...
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 5:12 pm
  #955  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
I realise how much you love to play devil's advocate.
Well that's one way of putting it
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 6:00 pm
  #956  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by abner
So, train the guards then.

And, improve the testing technology.

Wow, that's great--and very positive--thinking that absolutely nobody has been pursuing up until now...
Clearly they haven't. Anyway whats your point? You sound like you are keen to hunker down indoors for the next 2 years?
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 6:37 pm
  #957  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by stevenglish1
Well that's one way of putting it
I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 7:00 pm
  #958  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Clearly they haven't. Anyway whats your point? You sound like you are keen to hunker down indoors for the next 2 years?
I don't get to hunker, I'm "essential".

I get inadequate PPE at work, relative to exposure risk, and am told to suck it up. Recent infection spikes in Melbourne are actually a direct threat to me, and potentially to my family.

What's *your* point?!?
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 9:35 pm
  #959  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by abner
I don't get to hunker, I'm "essential".

I get inadequate PPE at work, relative to exposure risk, and am told to suck it up. Recent infection spikes in Melbourne are actually a direct threat to me, and potentially to my family.

What's *your* point?!?
Anyone who has a job is essential as the saying goes. My wife spends an extraordinary amount of time in tunnels, providing a new service to the population travelling to work on new metros. Is that not essential. No PPE or much air extraction down there. Life goes on

Think bigger picture. Is that you, wife, 2 kids? So what. What about the hundreds of thousands who work in the travel industry who won't be able to put food on the table in a year?
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Old Jul 7th 2020, 10:07 pm
  #960  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Beoz
My wife spends an extraordinary amount of time in tunnels, providing a new service to the population travelling to work on new metros. Is that not essential. No PPE or much air extraction down there.
Something a bit evasive about that job description. Does she actually have contact with the commuting public?
Originally Posted by Beoz
Life goes on.
And if she does, is she as sanguine about the risks to her health as you are?
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