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Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Old Mar 23rd 2020, 4:10 am
  #61  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
Gladys has pulled the pin. She's asked parents to keep their kids home from school unless in an absolutely essential industry like health care, or with absolutely no other option. They don't want kids in school in New South Wales from tomorrow, unless they meet that criteria.
That's not pulling the pin and she didn't mention essential industries like health care.

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
I disagree that Morrison's job is economics first.
Are you suggesting someone said it was?

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
His first priority is to protect the nation and safeguard health and safety. Economics come after. Every single day the newspapers - even newspapers friendly to him, like The Oz - are running stories with doctors slamming him for being weeks behind the curve.
The problem here is that the sources haven't been contained. Ships letting 48 infections (at last count) run wild in Sydney. Self imposed isolation - WTF. I have heard of 2 separate stories of those getting off this ship going to grandkids birthday and other activities.

Self imposed is a joke. Anyone entering the country should be rounded up and forced to isolate.

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
Operationally what Morrison has outlined for schools is not viable and will topple over fairly quickly. You can't have a learning program where kids wander in and out of the building as they and their parents please, and once you get below a certain attendance threshold for the school - and it's a high threshold, about 80% minimum - a lot of standard teaching and learning practises become unworkable. The dominant mode has to be online, or face to face, not halfsies and not both.

This is why overseas, so many school systems shut despite proclaiming that they would stay open hell or high water same as Morrison. Once their attendance dropped to 70% or less, and staff absences rose to about 10% because of illness, self-isolations, needing to isolate because a family member was isolating, etc (not enough relief staff) they couldn't stay open operationally. Remember that schools are subject to laws too regarding health and safety and have a lot of policies etc to that effect. Those are there for a reason and can't be waived off just because someone in government thinks its inconvenient or wants to give the "we're at war" speech.

Not coincidentally, Gladys cited that 70% attendance level as part of the rationale for doing what she's done.

Plus the "kids don't spread it" line is probably bunk. Plenty say it's not true, scores of doctors in Australia are saying to close the schools, and most if not all of the other nations with this number of cases have closed the schools. It's on Morrison to justify why he's going out on that limb when others aren't.
Gladys is mentioning "one unit of work". This is a fair point.

Anyway, its time to batten down the hatches in Sydney at least. Too many foreigners and travellers flouting the isolation rules, multiplying the issue with every breath, before they find out they are sick a week later.

Meanwhile, the USA just overtook Spain with number of cases and this is probably just the tip of the iceberg there. UK the same, its screwed.
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Old Mar 23rd 2020, 4:28 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Beoz - agree with most of what you wrote.

Gladys said:“We are encouraging parents to keep their children at home,” she told reporters on Monday morning.

“We appreciate that for some parents that is not possible, so schools will remain open.

It was also added that schools are shifting to an online platform.

She would have known that would cause things to start circling the drain, or accelerate it is probably more accurate. Tell parents during a pandemic that they are "encouraged" to keep their kids at home, and well . . .

One unit of work - all the states/territories saying this - but it's impossible operationally if its halfsies here and not here. It has to break one way or the other. At this stage I don't think no matter how hard he stomps his feet, Morrison is going to get 80% of the kids in school - so it has to break the other way. Would not surprise me if attendance absolutely craters across the school systems still open this week, to the 50% mark or so (anecdotally it was about 70% last week - normal is 92%). Australia will either have to follow the UK model or shut. What Morrison outlined is not tenable, and now the unions are getting involved this week in a much more forceful manner than last week, when the unions were happy to just sit back and do what the chief medical officer said.

Agree completely about self-isolation. It's naive for governments to assume that will happen. As was very vividly demonstrated across the country last week, both that and social distancing were completely ignored. Even in our rural area my wife had trouble finding a parking space when she went to get our takeaway and places packed as ever.

If you think the 50 cases (and counting) on the Sydney ship were scary - right now we have a cruise ship off Fremantle with 250 sick people (at least) on it wanting to dock, reportedly mostly European tourists. Raises the question of why it was allowed to come, or if it is an Australian ship, why it was allowed to leave or not called back once the bans and measures went into effect. So those cruise ship passengers, are going to take up how many hospital beds needed by West Australians . . .

20 new cases in Western Australia overnight, 7 of them from cruise ships.





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Old Mar 23rd 2020, 11:12 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Queensland Govt is now running via a constant series of teleconferences. I think we organised over 25 today, another similar number lined up for tomorrow, specially now we have the threat of the teachers striking. Phone companies can't cope and the lines keep dropping out. Dread to think what'll happen as more of us start to take turns to work from home, could bring Telstra to its knees.......

Interesting to be trying to coordinate the management of a disaster without having a room full of government reps though, usually we have 60 or so people in the centre, and numerous politicians and media brandishing cameras. This time we have half a dozen police and ADF, and not a politician or camera person in sight! Bliss!!
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Old Mar 23rd 2020, 11:25 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Pollyana, are the teachers going to strike or not? The union seemed to try and walk that back a few hours ago.
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Old Mar 23rd 2020, 11:33 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Further update on the NSW schooling situation:

"Classes will not operate as usual but supervision will be provided for students who attend"
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Old Mar 23rd 2020, 2:38 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

I'm a kindy teacher and its been a nightmare at work- how do you encourage social distancing for young children? There's no kids left in the centres as parents have or either a) decided to keep their children away (just in case) b) self-isolating for whatever reason or c) have lost their jobs so have to pull their kids out. All casual staff have been told there's no more work for them and the rest of us are having our hours reduced. The schools remain open and therefore so do we, but its just not viable that we can continue to stay open- we are struggling to even get food to cook for lunch due to restrictions and low stock! What is also a little unnerving is at no point has children's education been referred to as more than an after thought for keeping the schools open- its just so people have someone to look after their child while they go to work. I get that it will be a struggle for the country- but I didn't go to uni for 4 years to become a glorified babysitter and put my own families health at risk. I have no choice to turn up, because clearly in this profession I cannot work from home. I just wish some sort of comprehensive decision can be made about what is going to happen, rather than leaving us all dangling on a thread.
I understand everyone is in the same boat- sorry rant over.
Hope everyone is doing ok too
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Old Mar 23rd 2020, 4:37 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
Pollyana, are the teachers going to strike or not? The union seemed to try and walk that back a few hours ago.
No idea, Thats up to them and their union.
And honestly, even if I had heard anything I value my job and wouldn't be posting that kind of inside info on here
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Old Mar 23rd 2020, 10:44 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
Pollyana, are the teachers going to strike or not? The union seemed to try and walk that back a few hours ago.
It's the unions who are the problem. Unions need to be muzzled especially in a time when Twitter like union threats do more harm than good.

"We couldn’t have a situation where children were staying away from school and were just down at the park, not doing much else,” the source said.

And more crucially, a threat of industrial action from the powerful NSW Teachers’ Federation loomed, which would have thrown the system into complete chaos, a senior source said. NSW was firming on a plan to close all schools, except for vulnerable children and children of essential workers, a solution that would have placated the union.
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Old Mar 23rd 2020, 10:50 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Dmorgan07 View Post
I'm a kindy teacher and its been a nightmare at work- how do you encourage social distancing for young children? There's no kids left in the centres as parents have or either a) decided to keep their children away (just in case) b) self-isolating for whatever reason or c) have lost their jobs so have to pull their kids out. All casual staff have been told there's no more work for them and the rest of us are having our hours reduced. The schools remain open and therefore so do we, but its just not viable that we can continue to stay open- we are struggling to even get food to cook for lunch due to restrictions and low stock! What is also a little unnerving is at no point has children's education been referred to as more than an after thought for keeping the schools open- its just so people have someone to look after their child while they go to work. I get that it will be a struggle for the country- but I didn't go to uni for 4 years to become a glorified babysitter and put my own families health at risk. I have no choice to turn up, because clearly in this profession I cannot work from home. I just wish some sort of comprehensive decision can be made about what is going to happen, rather than leaving us all dangling on a thread.
I understand everyone is in the same boat- sorry rant over.
Hope everyone is doing ok too
You don't try and keep kids apart. I have a kindy kid and I searched high and low on Sunday to find evidence it was dangerous for the kids and for others who are in close contact. I could not find anything. I would be happy based on the medical advice to have my kid in there and that they could not get infected nor infect others. However the school has been shut and it gone online.
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Old Mar 24th 2020, 12:08 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
You don't try and keep kids apart. I have a kindy kid and I searched high and low on Sunday to find evidence it was dangerous for the kids and for others who are in close contact. I could not find anything. I would be happy based on the medical advice to have my kid in there and that they could not get infected nor infect others. However the school has been shut and it gone online.
That is what we are being asked to do, but it really doesn't matter anyway if it is safe or not because it is impossible to do! the problem we have in the Early childhood centres is that most families are choosing to keep their children away regardless because they are worried and that is their prerogative. However because so many are choosing to stay away there are no kids for us to educate so we are just basically child-minding a a handful of kids- at the same time having our hours reduced without pay or being cut completely (very sad to see so many of my colleagues stood down as casuals). Just wish there was some sort of overall stance so that we can better prepare ourselves.
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Old Mar 24th 2020, 12:18 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Dmorgan07 View Post
That is what we are being asked to do, but it really doesn't matter anyway if it is safe or not because it is impossible to do! the problem we have in the Early childhood centres is that most families are choosing to keep their children away regardless because they are worried and that is their prerogative. However because so many are choosing to stay away there are no kids for us to educate so we are just basically child-minding a a handful of kids- at the same time having our hours reduced without pay or being cut completely (very sad to see so many of my colleagues stood down as casuals). Just wish there was some sort of overall stance so that we can better prepare ourselves.
Some hours are better than none. I think the governments should be giving the uniform advice based on the medical experts and at this point its send kids to school. I appreciate people are frightened but we need to listen to the medical experts. Plenty of countries have canned school and not seeing any results from it.

We just received our online learning pack. Its not really online. Its parents teaching kids. I appreciate this is early days and this is all new to everyone - I suspect it will get better as everything adjusts. That's all fine but 2 of us need to keep our businesses a float - we don't get paid reduced hours - we just don't get paid. Businesses are one thing. What about the parents who are nurses, doctors, etc?

The teachers union should be thinking of others before themselves. I would expect nothing better from a union.

Last edited by Beoz; Mar 24th 2020 at 12:23 am.
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Old Mar 24th 2020, 12:53 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Some hours are better than none. I think the governments should be giving the uniform advice based on the medical experts and at this point its send kids to school. I appreciate people are frightened but we need to listen to the medical experts. Plenty of countries have canned school and not seeing any results from it.

We just received our online learning pack. Its not really online. Its parents teaching kids. I appreciate this is early days and this is all new to everyone - I suspect it will get better as everything adjusts. That's all fine but 2 of us need to keep our businesses a float - we don't get paid reduced hours - we just don't get paid. Businesses are one thing. What about the parents who are nurses, doctors, etc?

The teachers union should be thinking of others before themselves. I would expect nothing better from a union.
I respect what you are saying but the reality is with young children no matter how much you clean or sanitise everything, once one child has something is spreads very quickly and all the kids get sick, plus the educators. I don't work in a school I work in a long day care centre that will most likely close by the end of the week because of lack of enrolments and I will also be reduced to zero hours unpaid. There is no option for me to work from home or provide 'online learning' we are not a school. We are in a catch 22 position- we are concerned and have a duty of care towards both our families, children and staff, but we also need people to bring their kids in to stay open- there is no right or wrong decision.
With regards to support parents who are nurses etc why not propose the system that is currently underway in the UK? Schools and daycare centres remain open for children from 'key worker' families such as those in the NHS, supermarket workers etc? I just think a better plan is needed than the fumbling around that is currently happening. Each state is making up their own rules and no-one knows what is going on
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Old Mar 24th 2020, 3:08 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Some hours are better than none. I think the governments should be giving the uniform advice based on the medical experts and at this point its send kids to school. I appreciate people are frightened but we need to listen to the medical experts. Plenty of countries have canned school and not seeing any results from it.

We just received our online learning pack. Its not really online. Its parents teaching kids. I appreciate this is early days and this is all new to everyone - I suspect it will get better as everything adjusts. That's all fine but 2 of us need to keep our businesses a float - we don't get paid reduced hours - we just don't get paid. Businesses are one thing. What about the parents who are nurses, doctors, etc?

The teachers union should be thinking of others before themselves. I would expect nothing better from a union.
Beoz, the role of the teachers' union is to represent teachers. That is especially important now since the government is pretending (at best) they don't even exist and (at worst) they are cannon fodder.

You and your wife are the parents of your kids. That means they are your responsibility. Not that of the teachers . . . and it is not the teachers' problem if you are financially inconvenienced. That is not what they, or the school, is there for . . .

. . . and there is plenty of evidence that schools are petri dishes were infections spread easily, and that is not medically debatable. We do not know very much about this virus, but in the face of the established evidence that schools are easy transmission facilitators for allsorts, it is up to the Government to provide detailed advice on why this virus is an exception. Not telling everyone to just cross their fingers and hope that it is. There is PLENTY of medical advice going around right now that schools SHOULD be shut - there is some major doctor or some major medical head saying it in the papers or on TV ALMOST EVERY SINGLE DAY. I just heard yet another person, the head of the nurses' association, say it on the radio!

Besides the other factor is, well you and your wife may not be going down to the Bondi Beach Party with 50,000 other people, or attending the packed backyard barbie that the neighbour is still throwing but just tried to move out of sight, but plenty of parents are blowing off all the precautions and are being "covidiots." Those parents will get sick and send their kids to school anyways because (1) they are in denial if they or their child shows symptoms (2) their kid is a ratbag and they can't cope with having him/her at home - so what if the kid spreads virus, they need and want a break from their kid during the day.

The problem of sending you a learning pack to teach your own kids, would have been solved had the government moved the holidays up to allow teachers to prepare an online learning facility. It is not an easy and simple thing to do, and it is not just a case of "hang on a sec, I'm pushing the button for online." It isn't like a face-to-face business meeting that just suddenly goes videoconferencing. Very few subjects can transition easily to it, especially since most things these days are "hands on" learning experiences requiring a lot of materials. How is the science teacher going to have the kids do lab work and use microscopes on-line? So something needs to be tied up with wire, but that takes a lot of time.

I think a lot of people in the education sector would feel a lot more comfortable with the UK model where the kids' of essential health care workers go and nobody else. That is a tiny fraction of the school population and infection controls etc can actually be implemented.

Regardless, the reality is that attendance continues to plummet and normal lessons, at schools that remain open, have become virtually impossible. So now it's the worst of all worlds. The kids can't get normal lessons in schools and on-line lessons aren't available, and staff (and students and by extension their parents) continue to be put at medical risk.

Last edited by carcajou; Mar 24th 2020 at 3:10 am.
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Old Mar 24th 2020, 3:18 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Dmorgan07 View Post
I respect what you are saying but the reality is with young children no matter how much you clean or sanitise everything, once one child has something is spreads very quickly and all the kids get sick, plus the educators. I don't work in a school I work in a long day care centre that will most likely close by the end of the week because of lack of enrolments and I will also be reduced to zero hours unpaid. There is no option for me to work from home or provide 'online learning' we are not a school. We are in a catch 22 position- we are concerned and have a duty of care towards both our families, children and staff, but we also need people to bring their kids in to stay open- there is no right or wrong decision.
With regards to support parents who are nurses etc why not propose the system that is currently underway in the UK? Schools and daycare centres remain open for children from 'key worker' families such as those in the NHS, supermarket workers etc? I just think a better plan is needed than the fumbling around that is currently happening. Each state is making up their own rules and no-one knows what is going on
It's pretty clear what's going on. Victoria is shut, NSW is advising to stay at home, all other states open. It's crystal clear.

A single approach across the country is not appappropriate at this point in time.

Can you provide evidence that child care centres are prolific transmitters of Conronavirus? The evidence I read is that young children do not transmit in the large. The government medics say the same. There is the odd case of transmission around the world but it's very much an odd case.

Question. The child care centre gets paid a considerable amount of money to mind my child. We have been told by the child care centre we must continue to pay these fees should they close. If the child care centre closes because of lack of enrolements and you guys don't get paid because of zero hours, where is this money I am paying going? Happy to continue to pay if it's paying the staff but I refuse the finance the owner of the child care centre.
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Old Mar 24th 2020, 4:14 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
Beoz, the role of the teachers' union is to represent teachers. That is especially important now since the government is pretending (at best) they don't even exist and (at worst) they are cannon fodder.
No. The government is taking advice from the many medical officers. It would be helpful for all if you stuck to the facts.

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
You and your wife are the parents of your kids. That means they are your responsibility. Not that of the teachers . . . and it is not the teachers' problem if you are financially inconvenienced. That is not what they, or the school, is there for . . .
Plenty of people who live day to day who have no savings as a buffer who are still in jobs need their kids in school. Shut the schools, what do these parents do? Kids go to stay with grandparents, teenagers running around the shopping centre in amongst the elderly. For a society as a whole, and from the medical advice and evidence available, and as of today (this could change), kids need to be in school.

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
. . . and there is plenty of evidence that schools are petri dishes were infections spread easily, and that is not medically debatable. We do not know very much about this virus, but in the face of the established evidence that schools are easy transmission facilitators for allsorts, it is up to the Government to provide detailed advice on why this virus is an exception. Not telling everyone to just cross their fingers and hope that it is. There is PLENTY of medical advice going around right now that schools SHOULD be shut - there is some major doctor or some major medical head saying it in the papers or on TV ALMOST EVERY SINGLE DAY. I just heard yet another person, the head of the nurses' association, say it on the radio!
What do you mean its not medically debatable? The government medical officers say schools should remain open - Brendan Murphy is heading up a cast of them. If their advice is incorrect then please show the evidence. Fear mongering is dangerous. I am more than happy to see contrary evidence. We need to know if our medical officers are incorrect.

I see Normanhurst Public School has 2 sick teachers. This could be the evidence to close down schools to it be proven the teachers got it from kids or kids passed it to teachers. Again the reports do not say.

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
Besides the other factor is, well you and your wife may not be going down to the Bondi Beach Party with 50,000 other people, or attending the packed backyard barbie that the neighbour is still throwing but just tried to move out of sight, but plenty of parents are blowing off all the precautions and are being "covidiots." Those parents will get sick and send their kids to school anyways because (1) they are in denial if they or their child shows symptoms (2) their kid is a ratbag and they can't cope with having him/her at home - so what if the kid spreads virus, they need and want a break from their kid during the day.

The problem of sending you a learning pack to teach your own kids, would have been solved had the government moved the holidays up to allow teachers to prepare an online learning facility. It is not an easy and simple thing to do, and it is not just a case of "hang on a sec, I'm pushing the button for online." It isn't like a face-to-face business meeting that just suddenly goes videoconferencing. Very few subjects can transition easily to it, especially since most things these days are "hands on" learning experiences requiring a lot of materials. How is the science teacher going to have the kids do lab work and use microscopes on-line? So something needs to be tied up with wire, but that takes a lot of time.

I think a lot of people in the education sector would feel a lot more comfortable with the UK model where the kids' of essential health care workers go and nobody else. That is a tiny fraction of the school population and infection controls etc can actually be implemented.

Regardless, the reality is that attendance continues to plummet and normal lessons, at schools that remain open, have become virtually impossible. So now it's the worst of all worlds. The kids can't get normal lessons in schools and on-line lessons aren't available, and staff (and students and by extension their parents) continue to be put at medical risk.
Yes I mentioned we need to be a little patient with the online learning - its all new for everyone.
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