Beoz

Great summary. Isn't that the truth. Its just so wrong for the insular jurisdictions to shut it down knowing full well those who stay open will pay for it.

Are you saying that they might think, why do we need expensive local?

Amazulu

Yes. I know that there are skillsets involved that are not easily replicated and that, in our industry at least, offshoring has not had a great track record and the practice has not really grown in recent years, but you have to understand that businesses, by and large, are run by non-jobs, aka accountants. Now, these guys don't really get productivity, technical difficulties and deadlines, just saving dollars. And it's not like they would have to go to the 3rd world either. People in the UK, NZ, the US, who do what I do generally earn less - sometimes a lot less - and some would even be prepared to work the unsocial hours that would result from time zone differences if it fitted in with their lifestyles. Never having to go into the office is the beginning of a slippery slope IMO, one that I don't want to go down. Also, a lot of companies are front and centre with the Chinese 19 overreaction and are implementing all this bullshit with zeal - and a cherry on top. Having people working from home fits in perfectly with this overreaction - and many are also looking at reducing costs - ie expensive CBD office blocks. (Nanny) State government policy from the likes of Andrews and McGowan is encouraging them too

Beoz

Its a good point. I see a massively growing Indian workforce in my company with Australia remaining steady. I have heard management actually say when an Australian leaves "I can get 3 Indians for that cost". It then becomes a repeated argument. I have actually given up playing nice on that front and if I get labelled racist I really don't care.

The bottom line is, if you hire 3 Indians, the chances are 1 out of the 3 are any good. And of that one good Indian, he or she will leave for a dollar more an hour.

Pre COVID our Indians were never allowed to work from home due to lack of trust from Indian management. Being 5 or 6 hours behind it was generally accepted they would be in the office around 3 or 4pm Sydney time. Depending on train issues, how many uncovered sewer holes they fell down, if they got hit by a moped on the way to work. Now they are working from home they don't appear online until about 6pm Sydney time. So they lack of trust is warranted. And that's a productivity issue right there. I am starting to rock the boat with this as I am having to move my hours to compensate for lazy arse Indians.

But you are right, upper management typically can't look deeper into productivity levels and go straight for the spreadsheet and it takes repeated Indian failures before they realise keeping a balance across the world is a wise choice.

I always did plenty of work from home pre-COVID. The main change for me is I am no longer on aeroplanes which is awesome.

It's really going to be interesting where this takes the business airline travel industry and CBD commercial real estate.

As you say, reducing cost is cherry on top. I can't see business airline travel and CBD real estate returning to pre COVID levels. Where this takes offshoring with all its productivity issues remains to be seen.

abner

Oh dear, unbridled capitalism actually sucks...if one is on the receiving end of the 'accountants'.


Welcome to the wider world of Australian white-collar "rationalisation", in any of several industries.

Amazulu

Not an Australian thing at all as it would happen all over the Western world - one of the reasons Donald Trump was elected for instance

Fortunately, I have skills that that can easily be transferred into areas where offshoring is virtually impossible. It would not be my preferred option but I'd still be able to earn a decent crust

dave_j

I strongly suspect that once this covid pandemic is over, more than one corporation will undertake studies into how it was managed throughout and if you're astute you'll already be positioning your consultancy to pick up this business.
Chief among those who'll be at the sharp end will be those much hated bean counters. They'll be sprouting spreadsheets from all of their orifices indicating where beans can be saved and how that weed was found to be no longer needed and how that flower can be snipped at the root.
Working from home no doubt has been a boon for many, but there's always this niggle, this suspicion from those paying your wages that doing your job, or at least claiming to do your job, from a comfy chair doesn't somehow sit easy in the bean counting world.
My advice is to spend the next few months forgetting how comfortable working from home can be and concentrating on making yourself indispensible because I'm sure that guy who used to sit along the corridor is doing just that.

Beoz

Sadly bean counters know how to pull a spreadsheet together but rarely do they understand the requirements that make a company profitable. Especially in fields like engineering, construction and retail.

However offshoring is certainly another item to add to the list in this article here.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/slee...20-p56gho.html

abner

Been there, already done that.

And I can see you're a smart, experienced cookie, Amazulu.

But there was just something about the phrase of yours that I quoted ("If we never have to go into the office then 'we' could just as well be in Manila or London or Auckland") that came across like a deer suddenly realising that he was in the headlights of oncoming car.

Amazulu

This offshoring lark has been around in my field of work since the mid-90's at least - and yet here we are in 2020, all still working and earning a decent crust. In one way, it forces you to keep upgrading your skills to stay ahead - something that I don't have a problem with and actually enjoy. One of the biggest advantages we have is that project design engineering is not easy - it never has been and it never will be. It's hard graft. Offshoring kind of works when you're doing vanilla, generic work but when you have to deal with the complexities and problems that inevitably arise, it falls flat on its ass - and the Asian countries that we offshore to are hopeless at dealing with problems, disagreements, big issues - they are very much of a yes sir, no sir bent - and that doesn't work

The other thing is that although you could try and design a mine offshore, you sure as shit can't build it offshore!

Beoz

It doesn't work. But spreadsheet management keep trying. They have been trying since the 90's. Spreadsheets don't show yes sir attitudes, rope learning mentality, problem solving disabilities. It shows a cheap number on a spreadsheet.

Then when that spreadsheet manager gets fired or moves on because they managed by spreadsheet, the next up start tries it again.

scrubbedexpat098

Tearful mum on the phone last night, aunty Margaret passed away, aunty Cathy is in hospital in a bad way, cousin Serena, her husband Barry and their littlun all laid up with COVID, serena not doing well at all. Mum and dad have done the right thing and stayed away, although 2 of their neighbours have died from covid over the last couple of months. Sad as this makes me, it also makes me angry that the likes of Bozo peddle their brand of shit regardless of the cost, because it's no cost to them other than financial. **** you and your economy bozo. Rant over, that's much better.

old.sparkles

Sorry to hear that Steve. Sorry for your Mum and Dad too - doing the right thing doesn't make it any less painful. Hopefully enough of the population can get vaccinated to limit the spread soon.

scrubbedexpat098

Cheers, but like I say I'm more angry than upset really that some people still harbour such reprehensible attitudes because it hasn't affected them. It would really make me happy and relieve some pent up aggression if I could have 5 minutes alone with him right now .

old.sparkles

Yes, I know what you mean. I've never understood the UK's approach, nor those that proclaim 'it's just like flu' or other conspiracy theories. Depressing

scrubbedexpat098

yes you're right it is depressing, I'm happy that I took it seriously before it affected me personally.