Check your Privilege
 

Some here consider me the resident lefty (despite me saying I'm pretty much centralist), but today in a 'discussion' I had some say I should "check my privilege" :ohmy:

It got me thinking.

I'm coming round to the idea that the politically correct, social justice warrior, latte sipping hipster, type is becoming a destructive sect.

The point of the phrase is to dismiss, ignore and denigrate the viewpoint of anyone who's 'white, anglo saxon, hetrosexual, protestant' - a group to whom the SJW sect are literal devils and root of all evil in the world. If you are put of this group you can have nothing to say, and thus can be ignored as a lower race of people ...

They seem to be progressively forming an ideology not that people should be equal, free, etc. - but that the culture we live in is actively the trouble, and that literally anything else is better. Whilst I think there's a lot of changes and improvements needed, I consider this to be massively missing the point. Rather, the WASP cultural set is closer to ideal than virtually every other culture around - and they should be concentrating their attention on the likes of russia, china, islam, africa, etc. as much bigger problems.

I get the same feeling of ignoring the real world, evidence etc. and going for culturally defined, made up, views as I do from religious zealots. Dogma over data - and don't you dare debate where they might be wrong.

Does anyone else have any perspectives on this?

And why is it that it's always the most privileged and disconnected from the hard cold world that say others should 'check your privilege' ?

Re: Check your Privilege
 

You could apply the 'check your privilege' to the far right, but when applied to centralists, its just the lefty minority groups clutching at straws again.

Greater respect should go towards those who may be in a minority group who break through what others may perceive as barriers rather than making excuses.

Re: Check your Privilege
 

Find it also interesting, Gary: I don't see you as left wing ; sort of a rise against the machine , a 'them and us' merchant, even a futurist.

Plenty of Champagne Socialist Liberals are far less aware than you are.

I see myself as a classic Liberal and I get annoyed with small-minded people who see everything as negative and shut and dry. The last laugh I have though is that I am socially conservative and still wear my pro-establishment badge with pride: does this mean I am a Champagne Socialist with a conscience : Guilty M'Lud : in other words when it sort of suits me..that said manners and looking after people works.

I am for protecting the weak and disadvantaged, but not those who can't help themselves hence why I have no time for victims on BE..

About privilege : Zulu is right when he says we have a tendency to hate ourselves in the West..

There is a middle ground...

Re: Check your Privilege
 

Thing is, I'm not sure it's even left<>right anymore. It seems like there is a script, an approved dogma that WASP = evil and pointing out that actually WASP probably equals some of the most enlightened of cultures, globally, is a heretic crime (even if it is borne out by the facts).

It's one thing to be open minded about others; but not so open minded that your brain falls out.

And to gleefully say that WASPs will be expunged from history, despite all they have done to make this a world where such SJWs can pontificate whilst sipping their lattes, is kind of stupid.

Re: Check your Privilege
 

My actual view is any of the political ideologies is wrong - because it says the solution to every problem is the same. The right say the 'free' market is always the way. The left say centralised command and control is always the way. Both of them are bloody stupid - right tool, right time, right job.

Yeah, I think the problem is not enough engineers in government, too many lawyers. Engineers fix problems, lawyers ties rules up in knots to make money. The first aims to simplify the problem, the second to make it more complicated so you don't recognise them lifting bundles of cash from your pocket.

I tend to think everyone should be focused on being good, useful, human beings - which doesn't mean throwing them on the scrap heap to die if you've perverted the system such that they can't get a job. But it also doesn't mean that you sit on your arse all day watching soaps and effectively stealing from those who do do things.

And you don't get to avoid being offended. Sometimes the best thing is if certain individuals DO get offended - truth hurts.

Re: Check your Privilege
 

Tic-Tac-Toe.
I remember when it was just plain old noughts and crosses.
Tic tac toe was the winning line on a one-armed bandit; aptly named of course.

Win and lose.
Lose and win.
Endless friggin circles of non accomplishment.

Until the game is drawn can any worthwhile long term objectives occur, or should I say succeed? Or is human nature meant to lead to stalemate?


Comprehension is a marvellous thing to those who can comprehend.

Re: Check your Privilege
 

Whether it be Left Right, Rich Poor, Black White, Gay Straight we seem to have gone full circle on this. Those who feel hard done by seem to have the right to ridicule. Shoe on the other foot is acceptable these days.

Reverse discrimination is prevailing. Go and have a look at The Rugby Thread and see how the private school conversation prevails.

Re: Check your Privilege
 

Whilst I agree that this sort of behaviour is stupid, hypocritcial and counter-productive, it really is a tiny minority that follow this 'dogma'

'Reverse discrimination' is most certainly not 'prevailing'. It exists more than it used to but lets not kid ourselves that traditional power structures have really changed in any way, and nor will they in the forseeable future.

Re: Check your Privilege
 

There seems to be a transition point, where good intentions and real issues convert into unthinking dogma and ideology. You start off with a base idea that's sensible on the face of it (everyone should be treated equally) but many of the most fervent activists are more in it for the tribe, the control, and the fighting. They drive out the saner voices, converting sane viewpoints into dogma that via 'holier-than-thou' attitudes warp into insanity and misapplication.

So 'equality' becomes 'equality between the sexes', becomes 'gender politics', becomes the idea that only women can be 'oppressed' and any instance where men are disadvantaged aren't sexism, becomes the idea that all men are nasty and evil and you'd better agree or they will attack you and get you sacked. They never, at that point, question who's oppressing who ...

I think I'm coming to the view that any 'ideology', be it politics, religion, or 'causes' are inherently the problem; and you need to avoid allowing them to pervert sense, sanity and good evidence based decision making. So that includes anything with "the war on ..." in front of it, things like libertarianism and the worship of the market, and potentially the whole human rights arena (which is something of a change of mind for me).

And that further means that many types of organisational structure (which can promote ideological thinking) are part of the problem.

Re: Check your Privilege
 

I've long said this, anyone with a 'non pc' ie: honest point of view, even if unpalatable, deserves to be heard. For instance, I'm all up for a bit of multiculturalism, but when it's thrust upon people it aint gonna work, doesn't matter how you dress it up. Trouble is most 'tolerant' types fail to tolerate different point of view, and they're so intelligent that this irony is lost on them.
Dismissing people as racist, bigot, bogan, ignorant or a combination is lazy and destructive, and sweeps a nations problems under the carpet, I can touch the ceiling without standing on tip toes now. Tolerance is the new black

Re: Check your Privilege
 

I've not encountered this expression, but sadly I am fully aware of the types of people that will be rolling it out.

And you are right - this whole Social Justice Warrior thing is growing - you can see it in in the comments sections in news articles.

The thing for me is that it seems to be a mechanism to shut down any sort of rational debate about things, while at the same time taking some sort of perceived moral high ground that doesn't really exist. In the same way that prissy mothers think "Won't somebody think of the children" should be the end of any discussion. I saw this on a course I went on a couple of years ago, where a woman claiming to be some very small fraction aboriginal shut down a lot of worthwhile discussion with the phrase "As an aboriginal person, I am offended by that comment." And it happened again, and again, and again.

I don't see myself as either right, centrist or left any more - there are different solutions that fit different problems, and the one size fits all Left or Right approach should be discarded in favour of evidence based policy.

It's folly to think that the right or the left can supply all of the solutions, and it's right for us to be critical and examine the way that things are done. We as expats are lucky, as we have usually experienced at least one other country and the way that things are done there, and I think this is why we are more critical when we see things here that seem backwards and dysfunctional to us. For people who have never known any different, it is just the way that it is. Using the UK and Australia as an example, there are great and dumb things about both places. But SJWs shutting down worthwhile conversation is no way to improve anything.


S

Re: Check your Privilege
 

Would Sir prefer his privilege topped up with the customary silver spoon this evening or will a laced orange suffice? ;)

I'm generally supportive of a multicultural society but I don't expect it will always be harmonious or easy. There are just aspects of societies that are mutually incompatible be they cultural or religious. However I don't think this a problem that will persist because even a multicultural society will eventually tend towards homogeneity.

Re: Check your Privilege
 

Sir would like some bl**dy privilege, rather than having to work for everything - and for the numbnuts using said phrase as a way of ignoring anything said by someone white and male to drop down a deep dark hole.

:banghead:

Re: Check your Privilege
 

Putting to one side the annoying and incorrect use of the phrase in question, do you really not think you are privileged?

Re: Check your Privilege
 

Even as a lefty socialist type I'll tell you there is no such thing as a free lunch old chap.

To be honest I'm from very humble beginnings and it would be unfair to say being white and male has not been a stroke of luck in assisted me in escaping that background. However neither of those things have been the overwhelming reason for my, very modest, success. While I'd love to think my intelligence, good looks and charm would let me glide through life but it turned out many people are actually cleverer, better looking and more charming than I am (imagine the chip on my shoulder after discovering that! :sneaky:) so I had to take some risks and do a bit of hard graft to get ahead.