the troubadour

I thrive on the truth as well you know. Why not do something radical and dispute what I write with facts? Answer you can't. Just as you won't take me on in any debate. Australia if it is to become a basket case will be due to the poor policy over recent decades. Especially that off The Coalition that wasted the biggest boom in modern history. Wasted. Middle class/Rich tax cuts indeed. Little left in the kitty to fight the down turn. Argue that. The cut in CGT by fifty per cent along with other 'incentives' that sent the housing inflation rocketing skywards. Yes I do agree that is negative, but fail to see any humour in where the Coalition has taken us.
There is plenty of argument, and I have barely started on the economic vandalism inflicted on this country by ' your economic managers'. You may wish to attempt to argue just why the facts are 'crap I make up', you poor deluded soul. Your arrogance in ignorance knows no bounds. No wonder the Coalition is where it is.

Beoz

You just argued against your own argument. According to you (above) Australia is not an economic basket case. Cool. I think then we can both agree.

As you well know, John Howard set up the mining boom and we all reaped the rewards (hence you live in Perth) and a surplus. Rudd/Gillard/Rudd nearly destroyed it and managed to bring about a deficit. Very shortly we will be back in surplus and the mining is well and truly on the way back up.

Now, answer this with a bit of common sense. Where would you rather be?

Oh you mentioned housing as per usual somewhere in there. I found an article for you. Apparently living in the suburbs won't hurt your self esteem too much.

https://www.domain.com.au/living/sev...burbia-785379/

the troubadour

Howard spent the proceeds on tax cuts and housing entitlements. Economic vandalism. I have given you the figures. Coalition had such an easy run being boom time but again akin to children in a lolly shop. No doubt we can expect bribes from the present 'seat warmer' posing as PM in Canberra.

Mining? Some improvements to which overseas share holders will of course be delighted. ALP losing the fight to obtain a better deal for Australians. WA anything but looking good.
Domain. Are you serious? I'll leave self esteem issues to yours truly. I mention housing, as it is the biggest single issue impacting on Australians. It has as you'll be aware, the potential to bring down the economy.
No wonder the progressive's are stepping out and increasing influence. Neo lib's failed badly. There will be a considerable bill to pay for the lunacy but rebuilding starts with a single brick.

Beoz

Figures? You talked bribes and as always you didn't back it up with proof or conviction so rubbish like that always goes through to the keeper or despatched through the covers. Try again with your next delivery

Meanwhile it looks the the right wing of the Libs is going independent. Adios Craig Kelly.

the troubadour

I'll try and be patent. Yes figures. Bribing the electorate in order to return to power in 07. But lets go back earlier. the halving of Capital Gains Tax in 99, pushed up house prices and cost the budget some $4 billion in revenue forgone. No small bikkies.
ALP has sound policy in unwinding Costello's CGT discount. (and NG of course) Ridiculous generous super allowances for high income earners another permitted rort of the system that cost plenty.

Now you wish to dispute the figures quoted wasted by Coalition? Bring it on. AS I said. Economic vandals.

Best thing that could happen to the Lib's, if they can de shackle, from the hard core right of the party seeking to self destruct the party. A return to liberal values well over due, if they can of course, recall just what liberal views are.

Beoz

So now give me the figure governments made, the tax payer made, by cutting the GCT. You can start with figuring out the increase in profits to the construction industry and tax paid on that.

OK lets try and keep it shallow. Let's lump on that GCT today. Who do you expect to be the first to lose their jobs? Architects, followed by construction workers. The whole industry will collapse taking tax payer revenue with it. And we aren't talking a couple of billion.

I know you want to believe its cuts for the big boys, that's an easy one liner summary, however it's a tad deeper than that. It's all about governments making money to service us. It's why federal Libs and places like NSW are keeping the rest of the country going. Proper economic management. It's certainly not Victoria. 25 billion in the hole and counting.

I can't even recall the last time a Labor government provided proper economic management. Perhaps it was when we had the "recession we had to have".

the troubadour

Very easy. During Coalition reign...
$334 billion GAIN during mining boom
$314 billion SPENT in tax give away to bribe voters
Very poor economic managers under any criteria.
Although the gains from resource industry very poor to the Australian economy. Rather ripped off big time to the Coalition applause.

Beoz

You are plucking actions and figures out the the air. You aren't trustworthy enough for anyone to believe you without evidence. Can you provide the evidence that $314 billion was spent on bribing voters (CTRL C - CTRL V). I asked around - no one here can recall seeing that.

Speaking of bribes, remember the $900 pp or $42 billion dollar bribe the Ruddster threw at the bottom 70% to spend with Gerry Harvey? You must remember that.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-...imulus/5696150

So why did the Rudd government push so hard for stimulus? Once again, it's right there in the document: because of "the potential political costs of being seen to do nothing in the face of slower growth and rising unemployment".

Monetary policy is hardly nothing. But the government couldn't take credit for it.

The decision to deploy massive fiscal stimulus set in train all the events and personality clashes that defined Labor's term in government.

The debt racked up in those few months crippled Kevin Rudd's policy agenda, undermined every one of its future budgets, and, by liquidating the surplus in an instant, damaged its economic management credentials.

And for what? To avoid "the potential political costs of being seen to do nothing".

the troubadour

All on public record for anyone to examine. Reason why Rudd had to go into debt was to save the nation from the GFC of 08. The Lib's had spent most the proceeds of the mining boom on tax cuts and like minded bribes in an attempt to win another term in office. Denials and feigned ignorance although a typical ploy will be recognised for what it is, by anyone with the slightest ability to think for themselves and not bound to an ideology.
Not only was the kitty near empty, but the miners got away with a 'dirt' cheap product, thanks to the Lib's, to which we witnessed the ire of the mining in helping to dislodge an elected government, through very under hand tactics.
But talking about Coalition. Besides allowing it to be sold too cheaply, no sovereign fund was build up to get the nation through the hard times. Pretty obvious to see who runs Australia. Big Mining and corporates. Any government that 'sways' towards introducing proper taxes, has been shown they will be severely punished.

Beoz

Well you see this is where we differ our opinion.

Like all good Liberal governments they encourage investment and understand the benefits for all from it. Feel free to point out where this hasn't worked.

Like all Labor governments, they money grab and throw out cheap bribes. It fails every time.

Thankfully you aren't running the country.

the troubadour

Like all good Liberal governments? Seriously you lot are running the country, what a ruddy mess we are in. Where it hasn't worked? The state of the nation, after the biggest boom in its history. never seen so many glum, stressed people in this country. Small business faltering, infrastructure blow outs everywhere. Your Sydney inner city 'dig' is about to cost the tax payers big time.
Then the multi national rip off of Australia's resources. Not forgetting the $10 billion dollar subsidy to the fossil fuel industry rip off, which mining boom got most of it. Tell me about bribes. The Lib's are very good to further own ideology.
Of course the subsidies hardly stop there. Try public health and a 30% subsidy to private health insurance, which only ended up increasing health costs and reducing service availability. So much more I can add in other areas, but don't want to stretch you.
You being such an avid supporter of right wing governments that have got a once 'easy going' country with large degrees of fairness, into the narrow material focused, self obsessed , greed ridden , class divided, should if of conscious at all , be on bended knees begging forgiveness, not seeking to impose further pain and proven flawed political theatre.

Beoz

How you could be so wrong.

Lowest unemployment ever, mega infrastructure popping up all over the place (NSW and to a degree Victoria), public hospital system thriving (NSW), Surpluses (NSW and soon Federal). If your state is not looking after you vote for change there.

If a good economy is in place, then the rest rolls from there. People with a job and money = happiness.

People without a job and money = this.

the troubadour

Yes we can all see where the Sydney light rail project is heading. A massive further blowout to the tax payer and probable high legal costs. I'm struggling to recall an infrastructure project yet in Australia that was close to projected costs.
Actually not true. The work culture is turning ever increasingly toxic with many areas, with boards very authoritarian in approach. You see people are not in the main robots, although sometime one may wonder, and having a job and having to 'put up' and' shut up' does not sit well with a happy work place.
Indeed Europeans would not accept such attack on liberties. Thank goodness for people like the French , where freedom is held very dearly and will generally not accept subordination or attacks on living standards, at least without a fight. That is what your picture shows. Just odd you think people defending their rights as the enemy, yet the corporates/management that hide behind a wrath of laws and contracts can unleash mayhem within the work place, completely deflating working culture.
That's before even mentioning the short term contracts, but it doesn't even stop there. Far from it. Even with a written contract, it can be all to easily .changed by means of declaring that job no longer valid, but re employing under ever so slightly change of task with less conditions .

All in a nation that has not long come out of its biggest boom. Of course if the proper taxation of the resource industry was in place, we could have been something akin to Norway. A sovereign fund, and a relaxed population with a proper pension and health/welfare system in place.

Beoz

Actually - in the end Acciona will be taken to the cleaners. If you sign a contract, price your delivery on that, then you deliver. Any large contractor places an element of risk and unknowns on a project. If Acciona failed to do that, just to get a foot in the Aussie door then bad luck. They will be made to pay.

In the case of Lend Lease, same applies. Not sure there is much to sell there. https://www.afr.com/street-talk/lend...0181127-h18e5q

Normally you would like to see big business getting done by the tax payer. Why the change of heart?

You have a couple of problems to solve.

1. Your workplace situation
2. Your housing wants and needs.

Only you can do that.

the troubadour

You could show a little more concern for fellow Australians. My situation is very honky dory, but can't say the same for others in professional roles with regards to treatment by employers/board which is akin too often to an abusive relationship to put it mildly.
If only more stood up here, but so termed trouble makers or those termed to non comply will find the road rocky, very rocky indeed in many an Australian work place. Many are folk who desperately need to work and/or need a 'good reference' to enhance further employment prospects.
I've witnessed quite a number of high ranking management 'change colours' on being forced out the door, even after over using of power to win favour but diminish work place confidence, usually to do more with personality clashes with new CEO's or Board directly intervening wanting to sweep away the old,,,,,the work place here is potential minefield in the creation of disharmony.
Of course only you can 'stretch' yourself to see a larger picture than flawed and failing Liberal party lines....

Housing great to. Again a shame that fellow Australians are not enjoying the success that I did. Nothing to do with me of course, just right time and so on. Housing remaining a basic and essential human right.