BadgeIsBack

accurate of course..it was unfortunate that Beoz talked about the median tax bill for people earning over 180k but if that median is higher than the amount paid at 180k it reinforces the point that high earning individuals are paying tax: Beoz is correct. High salary earners pay more tax..and yes they are also entitled to have kept an amount above the cost of living.

Tom Sawyer

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...18-p4zg3a.html . I think the last two paragraphs basically sum up what what GarryP is getting at.

Greg Jericho in The Guardian is not a great fan of ScoMo either....if some of you ever dare to take a broader view of things.

I've usually been a Conservative (UK)/Liberal (Australia) voter, but lately I have some serious doubts about their individual policies. Whether I'd vote Labor in either country is open to debate though.

Beoz

It's really bizarre the wealthy people are a fair game target for some people.

They are greatest providers and largest contributors to society by a long way.

We should be encouraging wealth. Not stifling it.

Just utter madness by the resentful and narrow minded.

Beoz

I read the SMH to get my left wing fix.

As for the Guardian, forget it. It takes lunacy to the extreme

GarryP

Saying that SMH is 'left wing' kind of demonstrates just how far out of it you've become. It probably explains why you make so little sense on the rest of it, and cannot accept facts when presented to you. You've caught an ideology and it's warping you away from reality into fantasy.

Reality is to maintain any kind of credibility and pretension towards fairness, you have to have progressive tax system with the rich paying proportionately more of their gross pay to ensure their disposable pay doesn't get ludicrous (as I have comprehensively demonstrated). Flat tax is just taking from the poor to give to the rich.

Now, personally I think there's a limit how far you can go with that, purely because there are so many ways in which the rich can seek to avoid paying their due. You have to limit tax to, say, the 30-40% total tax take, otherwise tax fraud erupts. However, you do have to make sure they pay even this (with jail when they seek to avoid) and you should expect the rich to be doing more for society on top, rather than just being a money hole. Some do (Elon), some don't (Gina), and some are just evil little parasites on society, actively doing harm (Kochs) - but all need to be bought into line and held to account over and above paying a fair share in tax. Tax is just the beginning, a more positive role is needed in addition, with those that won't needing to be held to account.

Beoz

Given the rest of what you wrote, this is easy to explain.

The system we have now and in the future. ....... and?

There has never been a proposal to run a flat tax. Which SMH article told you there was?

Why personally attack when the rules are in place to work with for all. Wealthy or poor. Your attack should be targeted at the rule makers. Those who have to make the rules who need to look at it with a broader agenda. Its like negative gearing. Why do we allow such a senseless tax break? Well it does help poor people make money from property and keeps property as a viable source of economics. Of course, the SMH don't often think too broadly about such topics - or maybe they do, but they know targeting wealthy people with a narrow point of view gets people like you all excited, returning to read more and more SMH.

the troubadour

A Progressive tax certainly has some depth. The worlds most successful nations across the board are those with the least inequality, which by the way carry popular support. By success, this is not confined to the narrow measurement (a woolly one at that) with regards to out dated proclamations about making hard work pay. Most of us are fully aware, if reasonably tuned in, that this is but a ploy for a narrow section in society to capture ever more of the wealth while the mass pays ever more. Hard work is something delegated to others by those with privilege or position , unless rather lucky or the right connections most doors will not be open to grafters.
A flat tax does reward those least in need of rewarding as likely have tax minimisation strategies in place anyway. The object should be to make life better for as many as possible. Not a targeted group making ever wealthier.

the troubadour

Or it could be just as well argued NG attributes to keeping people poorer by misusing tax payers in the diversion on money that could contribute to the welfare of the majority rather than few, while as well propping up and further inflating house prices, which in turn makes those paying off gigantic mortgages even poorer.

Beoz

It could be argued like that, but one thing is for sure - NG is not in place to support wealthy people. Wealthy people don't need to use negative gearing. Wealthy people positively gear.

Beoz

Are you kidding? Show me where the Liberals propose a flat tax? Bring it out. Put it on the table.

Its pretty simple what they propose.

"If we want to ensure that Australians are incentivised and encouraged to work hard, to stretch themselves, to be the best they can be, obviously there has to be a reward for effort as well," Senator Cormann said.

Bad luck if this idea scuppers your plans to do nothing at the expense of others.

old.sparkles

Do you think a flat tax rate is fairer than progressive tax?

Beoz

Of course its fairer. Everyone pays the same in proportional terms.

Ecomomically it doesn't work so we have the progressive system.

And?

the troubadour

It is not fairer, but I'm sure you are aware of that fact. I'm sure I have explained in rather some detail in previous, past posts, just why such a tax favours the better off and penalises the low earners yet again.
You still labour under the assumption that the rich pay tax........theory only.

Besides further erodes the tax base with those of your ideology also advocating tax breaks for Big Business. (totally uncalled for, again I have explained the reasons behind that)
But the questions begs. Just whom is going to pay for the public services that are increasingly being depleted in Australia, in the rush to surpass UK and USA in inequality and lack of empathy, creating one horrible society in the process.

the troubadour

You know I don't kid. Just as you know exactly to what I refer. Even the Coalition would not at this stage introduce a complete flat tax. This goes a big way in doing so and certainly once again increases the injustice and inequity. I realise you appear to want a grossly unbalanced society where only a few gain, but luckily, increasingly numbers of the population are waking up to what The Lib's have in store. Rumbled I'm afraid. Not before time. The price this country has paid over the past decade is a hefty one indeed, Hopefully al is not lost. A darn close call though.

the troubadour

Just rid ourselves of NG. Bring in greater rights for renters. 1.3 Million folk living in Australia in housing distress. A true indictment of the grubbiness that has all too often become a feature of this country.