Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
May 18th 2016, 3:31 am
#151
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Beoz, Firstly I do not advocate high immigration. I have with repetition critiqued the Big Australia concept slavishly followed by both parties. If you do wish to refer to me at least get the message right. No wonder you are so often behind the eight ball.
I am certainly for the removal of those in off shore detention, some call processing centres, out of good sense and principle. Besides those people having suffered more than enough, the tax payer has been forking out good money after bad to shore up a flawed policy, very likely illegal, certainly bad for the image of the nation, not to say attempting to buy dirt poor former colonies, to little avail at the end, paying out a colonial sum to a corrupt Cambodian government to house not more than five refugees, to which only two remain.
At the very least New Zealand could have taken a number to which they offered and the rest be brought to Australia under a humanitarian visa if nothing else and end the charade going on in this country to appease bogan votes.
Being connected to the process of WA settlement of refugees in the WA context, the fact being they come in a mixed bag. The majority certainly want to work though, many going on to reasonably high paid jobs like welding, painters, auto mechanics and community workers.
One can argue all immigration impacts on the local population when it comes to jobs. The fact remains though there can be no greater impact than competing with jobs, especially with the high rate of young Australian unemployed than transient Back packers. Their numbers have exploded over the years and add 457's to the mix, you may be able to note the limited impact 14,000 refugees impose on the greater community, at least in lost jobs.
While we are at it the latest release by the immigration dept of the jobs one can apply to immigrate on in the 17 financial year proves that the Ponzi immigration scheme remains in full force and just about any one with a desire and qualification of some kind can come to Australia.
This at a time of falling conditions where lawyers and engineers and even bean counters, whom I know or know off are finding it tough terrain to find employment.
I am certainly for the removal of those in off shore detention, some call processing centres, out of good sense and principle. Besides those people having suffered more than enough, the tax payer has been forking out good money after bad to shore up a flawed policy, very likely illegal, certainly bad for the image of the nation, not to say attempting to buy dirt poor former colonies, to little avail at the end, paying out a colonial sum to a corrupt Cambodian government to house not more than five refugees, to which only two remain.
At the very least New Zealand could have taken a number to which they offered and the rest be brought to Australia under a humanitarian visa if nothing else and end the charade going on in this country to appease bogan votes.
Being connected to the process of WA settlement of refugees in the WA context, the fact being they come in a mixed bag. The majority certainly want to work though, many going on to reasonably high paid jobs like welding, painters, auto mechanics and community workers.
One can argue all immigration impacts on the local population when it comes to jobs. The fact remains though there can be no greater impact than competing with jobs, especially with the high rate of young Australian unemployed than transient Back packers. Their numbers have exploded over the years and add 457's to the mix, you may be able to note the limited impact 14,000 refugees impose on the greater community, at least in lost jobs.
While we are at it the latest release by the immigration dept of the jobs one can apply to immigrate on in the 17 financial year proves that the Ponzi immigration scheme remains in full force and just about any one with a desire and qualification of some kind can come to Australia.
This at a time of falling conditions where lawyers and engineers and even bean counters, whom I know or know off are finding it tough terrain to find employment.
May 18th 2016, 3:33 am
#152
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
You've missed out the rather important qualifier I put after the sentence you quoted: "Unless they happen to be high quality chefs, digital media account managers, lawyers, or project managers, [illiterate and innumerate refugees] are going to find bugger all to apply for [in Melbourne] anyway."
That said, I'm not convinced that the 'refugees will work for less so that's why illiterate and innumerate people will take your jobs' holds water as an argument. That's what a minimum wage is supposed to do; prevent undercutting by establishing a floor for wages. If refugees are working for less than the minimum wage, then they are being used in a criminal fashion, and the employers should be sought out and vigorously prosecuted. That's not job theft by foreigners, it's organised immigration crime and it should be punished with jail terms for dodgy employers, not fines.
If the job pays minimum wage, and Australians aren't willing to do the job for that money, then how are refugees "stealing" it? It's a job that apparently only refugees are willing to do, so where is the loss there? Australians have every right to choose not to take a particular job, if they don't want to do it for the wage on offer. They can hardly say that job has been "stolen" from them if someone else takes it, though.
If your argument is that the minimum wage is not actually adequate for Australians to live on (which is why they "want more"), then surely it needs to be raised? Interestingly, that would rather give credence to the need to close the gap between rich and poor, wouldn't it?
That said, I'm not convinced that the 'refugees will work for less so that's why illiterate and innumerate people will take your jobs' holds water as an argument. That's what a minimum wage is supposed to do; prevent undercutting by establishing a floor for wages. If refugees are working for less than the minimum wage, then they are being used in a criminal fashion, and the employers should be sought out and vigorously prosecuted. That's not job theft by foreigners, it's organised immigration crime and it should be punished with jail terms for dodgy employers, not fines.
If the job pays minimum wage, and Australians aren't willing to do the job for that money, then how are refugees "stealing" it? It's a job that apparently only refugees are willing to do, so where is the loss there? Australians have every right to choose not to take a particular job, if they don't want to do it for the wage on offer. They can hardly say that job has been "stolen" from them if someone else takes it, though.
If your argument is that the minimum wage is not actually adequate for Australians to live on (which is why they "want more"), then surely it needs to be raised? Interestingly, that would rather give credence to the need to close the gap between rich and poor, wouldn't it?
There's 2 points here (crammed into the response to one question - pollies like to do that). The first point that was made is that 90% of Afghan refugees are unemployed and the difficulties of finding employment when you don't have an education - ie you can't read or write even in your mother tongue.
Secondly the minimum wage only covers those who are working for the man. If you are working for yourself or contracting, the price you charge or the hours you do is up to the individual. Lots of opportunity to undercut, widen that gap, and undercut the existing population.
Like you I'm not overly familiar on how this works but Ozzie should be along in a minute to tell you all about how the contractors at Aus Post roll.
I'm not sure I see the hypocrisy of the left you're referring to, either, if I'm honest. I wonder if you aren't misrepresenting the left when you say that they want "increased immigration". Are you sure what they want isn't actually "immigration that doesn't see people locked up in appalling conditions on Manus Island"? You can want both a manageable level of immigration coupled with a more humane system to deal with refugees, you know. For example, you could have onshore detention, where the treatment of refugees could be more closely and effectively monitored. It's still detention - they won't be letting them out during the day to take your job.
The greens haven't considered what the cost of an additional 50,000 is to the economy, peoples jobs, people's salaries, etc. When you have 90% of Afghan refugees living off the system, something needs to change there first before you even attempt to increase that number.
The point of offshore processing is to deter people smuggling and reduce the deaths at sea. ie no one wants to get on a boat to end up in a tiny island for a couple of years, therefore the people smugglers have no business.
May 18th 2016, 3:34 am
#153
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Sportsbet has the Coalition at $1.32 and the ALP at $3.35.
Might be worth putting a sneaky $50 on the ALP.
Meanwhile on asylum seekers and penalty rates ............ No Cookies | Herald Sun
Might be worth putting a sneaky $50 on the ALP.
Meanwhile on asylum seekers and penalty rates ............ No Cookies | Herald Sun
Who in their right mind would give any credence to what a sensationalist tabloid like Herald Sun would care to sprout.
May 18th 2016, 5:10 am
#154
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
I think you need to see what was said in the context of the question that was asked. Take a look at the article again and scroll to the SkyNews video. Peter Dutton says 'illiterate and innumerate' refugees would take Australian jobs
There's 2 points here (crammed into the response to one question - pollies like to do that). The first point that was made is that 90% of Afghan refugees are unemployed and the difficulties of finding employment when you don't have an education - ie you can't read or write even in your mother tongue.
Secondly the minimum wage only covers those who are working for the man. If you are working for yourself or contracting, the price you charge or the hours you do is up to the individual. Lots of opportunity to undercut, widen that gap, and undercut the existing population.
Like you I'm not overly familiar on how this works but Ozzie should be along in a minute to tell you all about how the contractors at Aus Post roll.
The greens want 50,000. The ALP can't decide what they want. The Libs have made their views clear.
The greens haven't considered what the cost of an additional 50,000 is to the economy, peoples jobs, people's salaries, etc. When you have 90% of Afghan refugees living off the system, something needs to change there first before you even attempt to increase that number.
The point of offshore processing is to deter people smuggling and reduce the deaths at sea. ie no one wants to get on a boat to end up in a tiny island for a couple of years, therefore the people smugglers have no business.
There's 2 points here (crammed into the response to one question - pollies like to do that). The first point that was made is that 90% of Afghan refugees are unemployed and the difficulties of finding employment when you don't have an education - ie you can't read or write even in your mother tongue.
Secondly the minimum wage only covers those who are working for the man. If you are working for yourself or contracting, the price you charge or the hours you do is up to the individual. Lots of opportunity to undercut, widen that gap, and undercut the existing population.
Like you I'm not overly familiar on how this works but Ozzie should be along in a minute to tell you all about how the contractors at Aus Post roll.
The greens want 50,000. The ALP can't decide what they want. The Libs have made their views clear.
The greens haven't considered what the cost of an additional 50,000 is to the economy, peoples jobs, people's salaries, etc. When you have 90% of Afghan refugees living off the system, something needs to change there first before you even attempt to increase that number.
The point of offshore processing is to deter people smuggling and reduce the deaths at sea. ie no one wants to get on a boat to end up in a tiny island for a couple of years, therefore the people smugglers have no business.
May 18th 2016, 6:47 am
#155
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Just what the solution should be is a difficult one to arrive at but it will take an international effort to look at solutions. Until then Australia is a fully signed up member of the UNHCR and as such cannot dictate which laws it decides to follow or not. Amazingly Australia is seeking a position of influence within the organisation while in breach of its obligations.
The mess of offshore detention requires a quick resolution and the right thing needs to be done.
So you don't mind Shite then, while disliking Sunni??? I find that hard to believe. Your colours have long been nailed to the mast.
May 18th 2016, 6:56 am
#156
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
I think you need to see what was said in the context of the question that was asked. Take a look at the article again and scroll to the SkyNews video. Peter Dutton says 'illiterate and innumerate' refugees would take Australian jobs
There's 2 points here (crammed into the response to one question - pollies like to do that). The first point that was made is that 90% of Afghan refugees are unemployed and the difficulties of finding employment when you don't have an education - ie you can't read or write even in your mother tongue.
Secondly the minimum wage only covers those who are working for the man. If you are working for yourself or contracting, the price you charge or the hours you do is up to the individual. Lots of opportunity to undercut, widen that gap, and undercut the existing population.
Like you I'm not overly familiar on how this works but Ozzie should be along in a minute to tell you all about how the contractors at Aus Post roll.
The greens want 50,000. The ALP can't decide what they want. The Libs have made their views clear.
The greens haven't considered what the cost of an additional 50,000 is to the economy, peoples jobs, people's salaries, etc. When you have 90% of Afghan refugees living off the system, something needs to change there first before you even attempt to increase that number.
The point of offshore processing is to deter people smuggling and reduce the deaths at sea. ie no one wants to get on a boat to end up in a tiny island for a couple of years, therefore the people smugglers have no business.
There's 2 points here (crammed into the response to one question - pollies like to do that). The first point that was made is that 90% of Afghan refugees are unemployed and the difficulties of finding employment when you don't have an education - ie you can't read or write even in your mother tongue.
Secondly the minimum wage only covers those who are working for the man. If you are working for yourself or contracting, the price you charge or the hours you do is up to the individual. Lots of opportunity to undercut, widen that gap, and undercut the existing population.
Like you I'm not overly familiar on how this works but Ozzie should be along in a minute to tell you all about how the contractors at Aus Post roll.
The greens want 50,000. The ALP can't decide what they want. The Libs have made their views clear.
The greens haven't considered what the cost of an additional 50,000 is to the economy, peoples jobs, people's salaries, etc. When you have 90% of Afghan refugees living off the system, something needs to change there first before you even attempt to increase that number.
The point of offshore processing is to deter people smuggling and reduce the deaths at sea. ie no one wants to get on a boat to end up in a tiny island for a couple of years, therefore the people smugglers have no business.
It was worth noting the difference between Canada and public reaction (a country that has agreed to take many times more Syrian refugees and Australia, a nation fed on a diet of reffo bashing and attempting to put a spin on it.
Where do you get your figure of 90% Afghan refugees on the dole?? Most the ones I've had contact with are al working. In fact a large number inhabit our more rural communities and are heavily involved in meat processing and such jobs.
May 18th 2016, 7:09 am
#157
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
I concur in the sense that I don't think it should be a number game. No matter what number taken there will be millions missing out.
Just what the solution should be is a difficult one to arrive at but it will take an international effort to look at solutions. Until then Australia is a fully signed up member of the UNHCR and as such cannot dictate which laws it decides to follow or not. Amazingly Australia is seeking a position of influence within the organisation while in breach of its obligations.
The mess of offshore detention requires a quick resolution and the right thing needs to be done.
So you don't mind Shite then, while disliking Sunni??? I find that hard to believe. Your colours have long been nailed to the mast.
Just what the solution should be is a difficult one to arrive at but it will take an international effort to look at solutions. Until then Australia is a fully signed up member of the UNHCR and as such cannot dictate which laws it decides to follow or not. Amazingly Australia is seeking a position of influence within the organisation while in breach of its obligations.
The mess of offshore detention requires a quick resolution and the right thing needs to be done.
So you don't mind Shite then, while disliking Sunni??? I find that hard to believe. Your colours have long been nailed to the mast.
Anyone - and I mean anyone - not coming via the UNHCR must be rejected
Our friend works for Border Force. She was telling us that our vetting of refugees is now pretty stringent - anyone even slightly dodgy is rejected
Great stuff
In reality we should only take non-muslims but the bleeding hearts/Australia-haters would throw a fit if we did - so some shite muslims will be acceptable
sunni islam is responsible for many of the problems facing the world today. We should take none - and I believe that is what is happening
They can go to Germany instead - Merkel wants them
May 18th 2016, 7:10 am
#158
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
If you read the many posts by troubadour he is constantly moaning about the gulf between rich and poor.
May 18th 2016, 7:21 am
#159
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Peter Dutton’s ‘Refugees are illiterate’ comments miss the mark
Whether it be true or not is irrelevant and is most likely a declining stat as refugees begin and finish education, find their feet in a new country, etc.
The point is the loony left love the focus on the one liner rather than putting the answer in context of the question.
May 18th 2016, 8:01 am
#160
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
You can find it in the article Garry posted see link below - watch the video in each - its comes from the Sky commentator
Peter Dutton’s ‘Refugees are illiterate’ comments miss the mark
Whether it be true or not is irrelevant and is most likely a declining stat as refugees begin and finish education, find their feet in a new country, etc.
The point is the loony left love the focus on the one liner rather than putting the answer in context of the question.
Peter Dutton’s ‘Refugees are illiterate’ comments miss the mark
Whether it be true or not is irrelevant and is most likely a declining stat as refugees begin and finish education, find their feet in a new country, etc.
The point is the loony left love the focus on the one liner rather than putting the answer in context of the question.
There's no question about that, and you know damn well that if it had been Mel Gibson saying it, nobody would have even given trying to defend it a second thought.
It's bad enough that a 'liberal' was caught saying it at all - it should be immediate de-selection. The fact that it was the s*dding immigration minister, the person responsible for flouting so many treaties and laws, that said it should have resulted in immediate and fulsome apologies.
None of that happened. Instead the racist was supported by what can only be assumed are other racists.
FFS - it's indefensible behaviour by the coalition.
May 18th 2016, 8:12 am
#161
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
If they are illiterate and innumerate then obviously coming by boat is the only way they can come to Australia on holiday. Unfair.
May 18th 2016, 8:27 am
#162
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
It was blatantly, unapologetically, racist.
There's no question about that, and you know damn well that if it had been Mel Gibson saying it, nobody would have even given trying to defend it a second thought.
It's bad enough that a 'liberal' was caught saying it at all - it should be immediate de-selection. The fact that it was the s*dding immigration minister, the person responsible for flouting so many treaties and laws, that said it should have resulted in immediate and fulsome apologies.
None of that happened. Instead the racist was supported by what can only be assumed are other racists.
FFS - it's indefensible behaviour by the coalition.
There's no question about that, and you know damn well that if it had been Mel Gibson saying it, nobody would have even given trying to defend it a second thought.
It's bad enough that a 'liberal' was caught saying it at all - it should be immediate de-selection. The fact that it was the s*dding immigration minister, the person responsible for flouting so many treaties and laws, that said it should have resulted in immediate and fulsome apologies.
None of that happened. Instead the racist was supported by what can only be assumed are other racists.
FFS - it's indefensible behaviour by the coalition.
Lets not sugar coat (as he said).
It would be very unlikely that an Afghan refugee had the opportunity of an education in Afghanistan given the state the country has been in for decades.
Nuff said.
May 18th 2016, 9:02 am
#163
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
says :
The Department of Social Services commissioned a report in 2011 which found:
- Seventy-five per cent of humanitarian entrants arrive in Australia with at least high school-level education.
- About a quarter of humanitarian entrants obtain a technical or university qualification after arriving in Australia.
- Nearly 50% of those who arrive with trade qualifications go on to obtain more technical or university qualifications.
- Forty-three per cent of those arriving with a university degree on arrival obtain further university qualifications after arrival.
- In total nearly 35% humanitarian entrants have a technical or university qualification either before or after arrival in Australia – compared with 39% of the Australian population 15 years and older. The most common fields of study for humanitarian entrants are in the humanities and healthcare.
For many people, they won’t be, you know, numerate or literate in their own language, let alone English. These people would be taking Australian jobs, there’s no question about that.
So, not only is it blatant racism, it's incorrect too. But you knew that, didn't you...
May 18th 2016, 9:48 am
#164
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Fact check: was Peter Dutton right about 'illiterate' refugees 'taking jobs'? | Australia news | The Guardian
says :
The Department of Social Services commissioned a report in 2011 which found:
So, not only is it blatant racism, it's incorrect too. But you knew that, didn't you...
says :
The Department of Social Services commissioned a report in 2011 which found:
- Seventy-five per cent of humanitarian entrants arrive in Australia with at least high school-level education.
- About a quarter of humanitarian entrants obtain a technical or university qualification after arriving in Australia.
- Nearly 50% of those who arrive with trade qualifications go on to obtain more technical or university qualifications.
- Forty-three per cent of those arriving with a university degree on arrival obtain further university qualifications after arrival.
- In total nearly 35% humanitarian entrants have a technical or university qualification either before or after arrival in Australia – compared with 39% of the Australian population 15 years and older. The most common fields of study for humanitarian entrants are in the humanities and healthcare.
So, not only is it blatant racism, it's incorrect too. But you knew that, didn't you...
And doesn't it concern you that if the stat about 90% is correct, that something should be done to help rectify it?
Oh and before you pull that "easy" little chestnut - racism, perhaps you need to remind yourself of the definition.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
May 18th 2016, 11:37 am
#165
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
“For many people — they won’t be numerate or literate in their own language, let alone English, for many of them that would be unemployed, they would languish in unemployment queues and on Medicare and the rest of it, so there would be huge cost and there’s no sense in sugar-coating that, that’s the scenario.”
Then we have the illogical Schroedinger's refugee statement - they are illiterate AND they are taking your job ...
So, given that he's obviously, factually, wrong - why do you think the odious little twerp is saying it?
Could it be that he is racist against the same brown people Abbott was racist against, knows that it's tacit liberal policy, and feels safe in spout racist lies on the campaign trail because of their supporters? Cast those 'illegal immigrants' all as illiterate, wasters, AND stealing your jobs - the coalition supports will lap it up and you won't get sacked? Sounds like Trump and the mexicans, doesn't it?
There is a sick racist heart to the far right's policy - blaming 'the other' for things they themselves have done.
