Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Australia > The Barbie
Reload this Page >

Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Old Jun 26th 2018, 12:05 am
  #1366  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
I've seen the information on the tax cuts before - I fail to see how that helps people earn more. The fact is, if I only earn $18.000 pa because there is only part time work available, and the competition for full time roles is high, or there aren't any currently,
.............. Or you live in Adelaide with not much going for it or you are seeing the increasing effect of part time working women entering the workforce or you like to work a few hours because its flexible or ............... lots of reasons for an increase in part time work numbers. And if you are trying to change that, somehow get more full time people in jobs, increasing corporate tax is hardly going to help, and if anything, reducing it is the only way to go. But we are only talking part time workers here and the tiny amount of those who feel they are underemployed.

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
then seeing a tax cut for those on $38,000 doesn't change that. I'm fairly certain that it doesn't incentivise you to try and reach that level, because the higher income itself is incentive enough. In case you think that no-one earns as low as $18,000 - that would be 20 hours a week in a minimum wage job. Of course, the 2.4% increase in the minimum wage would see that rise to nearly 18,500 from 1st July, but still not enough to benefit from tax cuts because it's not enough to pay tax.
Exactly - you don't pay tax (or a token gesture amount of $57.00) on $18,500. Therefore if you don't contribute, you aren't part of this scheme. I don't see the issue? If you don't pay tax how can you be part of a scheme which reduces tax? However it sounds to me like you are trying to argue the case for penalising the wealthy and rewarding the poor. And that's fine, but in my view everyone should be treated equally with a lean towards rewarding those who put the most in because quite simply, that's fair.

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
Yes there are loans available but as your own info shows, this is most often available for higher courses, and you still need to find the funds for the lower courses enabling you to access those.

I don't care if you think 'casual workers' and 'week to week' sound like sound bites because for the people I work with it is the reality. Casuals are only guaranteed a minimum of 4 hours work if they start a shift - if they are not rostered, or they get cancelled before the shift begins, they get nothing. Company tax cuts will not guarantee them permanent positions - not sure if anything will, but maybe a cash incentive would or covering a new employees super for the first year (I don't know - not my area of expertise).
Correct no guarantee, however company tax increases would harm businesses and hurt the people. Tax cuts will bolster business and they are the employers of people.

Reducing company tax is not solely about increasing full time positions though that might be a nice by product. Its about increasing investment into Australia, which does provide jobs, pays tax, and adds money to the economy. Without the big picture in place there is no picture for the part time worker who wishes to work full time.
Beoz is offline  
Old Jun 26th 2018, 12:29 am
  #1367  
MODERATOR
 
old.sparkles's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 29,820
old.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Beoz
.............. Or you live in Adelaide with not much going for it or you are seeing the increasing effect of part time working women entering the workforce or you like to work a few hours because its flexible or ............... lots of reasons for an increase in part time work numbers. And if you are trying to change that, somehow get more full time people in jobs, increasing corporate tax is hardly going to help, and if anything, reducing it is the only way to go. But we are only talking part time workers here and the tiny amount of those who feel they are underemployed.

Exactly - you don't pay tax (or a token gesture amount of $57.00) on $18,500. Therefore if you don't contribute, you aren't part of this scheme. I don't see the issue? If you don't pay tax how can you be part of a scheme which reduces tax? However it sounds to me like you are trying to argue the case for penalising the wealthy and rewarding the poor. And that's fine, but in my view everyone should be treated equally with a lean towards rewarding those who put the most in because quite simply, that's fair.



Correct no guarantee, however company tax increases would harm businesses and hurt the people. Tax cuts will bolster business and they are the employers of people.

Reducing company tax is not solely about increasing full time positions though that might be a nice by product. Its about increasing investment into Australia, which does provide jobs, pays tax, and adds money to the economy. Without the big picture in place there is no picture for the part time worker who wishes to work full time.
Why are you suddenly throwing increased company taxes in the mix?

Yes, perhaps living in Adelaide is a reason for high levels of casual and part time work - I've no idea but the argument is not part time work through choice - it's because that's all that is available and introducing tax cuts does not help this.

I'm not arguing penalising the rich to give to the poor - I was arguing lets not have tax cuts now but find ways to help those on the lower end of the scale move into higher paid jobs, and open up the lower paid to people not yet on the job ladder. Investing in education benefits all, be that TAFE, Uni or apprenticeships. The long term net affect would be that we can reduce welfare pay outs, and increase standards of living - and then look at tax cuts.

And yes Garry. if everyone trains in an occupation that is already oversubscribed, it may have a negative impact on wage growth - so lets target those occupations we know need more workers.

PS - please don't be sexist. Part time workers are from both genders for what ever reason
old.sparkles is offline  
Old Jun 26th 2018, 12:48 am
  #1368  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
Why are you suddenly throwing increased company taxes in the mix?
Because one leads into the next. You want to know how reducing income taxes helps those who pay no tax or want more hours and can't get them or helps fund training or ........ ? It's not directly designed to help that and no apology should be made for that. However its designed to help people on circa $38,000 and as I said, $500 odd per year is not to be sniffed at. The other tax break elephant in the room is the corporate tax cuts which can help those who pay no tax or want more hours and can't get them or helps fund training or ........ ?

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
Yes, perhaps living in Adelaide is a reason for high levels of casual and part time work - I've no idea but the argument is not part time work through choice - it's because that's all that is available and introducing tax cuts does not help this.
I bet there are people who want to work part time or casual. I bet there are people who want more hours. What do you expect the government to do here? Perhaps an idea is along the lines of the corporate tax cuts. You receive a corporate tax cut if you employ x number of worker full time.

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
I'm not arguing penalising the rich to give to the poor - I was arguing lets not have tax cuts now but find ways to help those on the lower end of the scale move into higher paid jobs, and open up the lower paid to people not yet on the job ladder. Investing in education benefits all, be that TAFE, Uni or apprenticeships. The long term net affect would be that we can reduce welfare pay outs, and increase standards of living - and then look at tax cuts.
Well that's an option I guess, but people on low incomes, welfare, seeking more hours, seeking training, is not a new thing. Governments have had processes in place for years to help here. I guess you need to dive down into these processes and work towards improving them. I bet there a loads of civil servants already in these areas trying to improve the system. You could also say the same for health. Should everyone get a tax cut when there is still room for improvement in the health system. What about infrastructure?

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
And yes Garry. if everyone trains in an occupation that is already oversubscribed, it may have a negative impact on wage growth - so lets target those occupations we know need more workers.

PS - please don't be sexist. Part time workers are from both genders for what ever reason
Known fact. From the early 90's as more and more women entered the workforce rather than being stay at home mums/wives, the amount of part time and casual employment increased.

Not sure how that is sexist, its a fact.
Beoz is offline  
Old Jun 26th 2018, 1:15 am
  #1369  
MODERATOR
 
old.sparkles's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 29,820
old.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Beoz
Because one leads into the next. You want to know how reducing income taxes helps those who pay no tax or want more hours and can't get them or helps fund training or ........ ? It's not directly designed to help that and no apology should be made for that. However its designed to help people on circa $38,000 and as I said, $500 odd per year is not to be sniffed at. The other tax break elephant in the room is the corporate tax cuts which can help those who pay no tax or want more hours and can't get them or helps fund training or ........ ?

I bet there are people who want to work part time or casual. I bet there are people who want more hours. What do you expect the government to do here? Perhaps an idea is along the lines of the corporate tax cuts. You receive a corporate tax cut if you employ x number of worker full time.

Well that's an option I guess, but people on low incomes, welfare, seeking more hours, seeking training, is not a new thing. Governments have had processes in place for years to help here. I guess you need to dive down into these processes and work towards improving them. I bet there a loads of civil servants already in these areas trying to improve the system. You could also say the same for health. Should everyone get a tax cut when there is still room for improvement in the health system. What about infrastructure?

Known fact. From the early 90's as more and more women entered the workforce rather than being stay at home mums/wives, the amount of part time and casual employment increased.

Not sure how that is sexist, its a fact.
Because part time work increased when women entered the work force does not correlate to part time workers are women - or indeed that women want to work part time. Some women work part time - and of those some are through choice or necessity, and some are because that's all there is. Some men work part time for exactly the same reason. Some companies only create part time work because if you work 4 hours or less (might even be 6) you are not entitled to a break - or it's easier to cover only the busy hours with a part timer, and hope that you don't get too busy when the part timer goes home. Or, part time workers may not pay tax if the income is low enough, therefore paperwork and admin can be reduced.

Not funding personal income tax cuts does not lead to increased company tax??? Not funding personal income tax cuts means that budgetary surplus can fund education, healthcare, infrastructure - or pay down the national debt quicker but I would prefer the former. I'd be happy to see tax cuts for the lower end as they are already doing it tough but I'm quite happy to forgo mine if it can be invested in one of those options that will grow the economy. And you are right, for the lower earners - $500 pa is not to be sniffed at - but it's not enough to pay for training, because on that level of income you probably can't afford the debt (if you can get loans in the first place). I also understand that tax cuts do not help those who do not pay tax, and that's partly the issue - let's help those who need it most.

Yes company tax cuts might do that too - and if that tax cut was linked to increased workforce I'd be happy with that. But the current processes are not working.

There is only one section of town that sounds me, me, me and it's not the lower end.
old.sparkles is offline  
Old Jun 26th 2018, 1:23 am
  #1370  
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
 
GarryP's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
GarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
And yes Garry. if everyone trains in an occupation that is already oversubscribed, it may have a negative impact on wage growth - so lets target those occupations we know need more workers.
Yeah, problem is people tend not to be very good at identifying them, the coalition paymasters want a surfeit of trained individuals in core jobs for the reason I stated, and in an age of automation, it's hard to identify those jobs that are going to be growth ones (just try naming one).

Personally I don't think we need a 'training system' I think we need a system for people to train themselves across a wide range of activities, in an quick agile fashion. Bottom up vs top down.
GarryP is offline  
Old Jun 26th 2018, 2:08 am
  #1371  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
it's easier to cover only the busy hours with a part timer, and hope that you don't get too busy when the part timer goes home.
Paperwork ... no. The above makes more sense. So this really goes back to the question of extending the busy hours. How does one do that? Give people more to spend for starters. More spending, more busy. Then if its business to business rather than business to consumer - give them more to spend. Anything else?

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
Not funding personal income tax cuts does not lead to increased company tax??? Not funding personal income tax cuts means that budgetary surplus can fund education, healthcare, infrastructure - or pay down the national debt quicker but I would prefer the former.
Well that's the burning question isn't it. Do you take that $144B and spend it directly on those items, or do you invest that in income earners and taxpayers, and re-collect it and hopefully more via GST, increased wages, more people in the workforce at the same time giving income earners and taxpayers a bit of breathing space and on top of that, giving working people more choice for employment. Plan A for you, plan B for me.

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
I'd be happy to see tax cuts for the lower end as they are already doing it tough but I'm quite happy to forgo mine if it can be invested in one of those options that will grow the economy. And you are right, for the lower earners - $500 pa is not to be sniffed at - but it's not enough to pay for training, because on that level of income you probably can't afford the debt (if you can get loans in the first place). I also understand that tax cuts do not help those who do not pay tax, and that's partly the issue - let's help those who need it most.
Taxes are being cut for those at the lower end - first and foremost. You can't deny they are not. Over time those further up will be seeing some cuts too. And that is fair especially if you want to give it to people who "need it most"

Garry's bottom up approach to training is not far from ideal. You can't force training from top down however you can provide the processes and systems in place (like student loans, and tax breaks from training costs) for those who wish to seize on an opportunity.

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
Yes company tax cuts might do that too - and if that tax cut was linked to increased workforce I'd be happy with that. But the current processes are not working.

There is only one section of town that sounds me, me, me and it's not the lower end.
Indirectly it will but for those who don't like "indirect" then the government could put in place "if you grow your workforce by 2% you are entitled to ......... company tax cut"

Perhaps we should take this to parliament. Company tax cuts is not quite through yet. You might need to chat to Ms Hanson.
Beoz is offline  
Old Jun 26th 2018, 5:00 am
  #1372  
Proudly Deplorable
 
Amazulu's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Amazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by GarryP
Yeah, problem is people tend not to be very good at identifying them, the coalition paymasters want a surfeit of trained individuals in core jobs for the reason I stated, and in an age of automation, it's hard to identify those jobs that are going to be growth ones (just try naming one).

Personally I don't think we need a 'training system' I think we need a system for people to train themselves across a wide range of activities, in an quick agile fashion. Bottom up vs top down.
No mention of Labor's paymasters - the CFMEU - I see
Amazulu is offline  
Old Jun 26th 2018, 5:03 am
  #1373  
Proudly Deplorable
 
Amazulu's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Amazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Part-time work is difficult to find IME. My wife works full-time and would love to go part-time but cannot find anything - unless it is totally unskilled

In my industry is is very rare
Amazulu is offline  
Old Jun 26th 2018, 5:08 am
  #1374  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by Amazulu
Part-time work is difficult to find IME. My wife works full-time and would love to go part-time but cannot find anything - unless it is totally unskilled

In my industry is is very rare
Impossible to get part time or casual work in my game, unless you are the returning parent and primary carer of a small child.

I would happily go part time to keep the necessities ticking over and spend the rest looking at other opportunities.
Beoz is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2018, 8:02 am
  #1375  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
ozzieeagle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
ozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

#up yours Libs..... Regards Victoria

Biggest landslide in my 38 years in Australia.
ozzieeagle is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2018, 8:15 am
  #1376  
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
 
GarryP's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
GarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
#up yours Libs..... Regards Victoria

Biggest landslide in my 38 years in Australia.
Looks like the 2 party preferred split will be something like 58:42 - and that's a white wash in relative terms.

Morrison will be having a brown trousers moment.
GarryP is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2018, 8:21 am
  #1377  
Frequent Flyer Member
 
bcworld's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,994
bcworld has a reputation beyond reputebcworld has a reputation beyond reputebcworld has a reputation beyond reputebcworld has a reputation beyond reputebcworld has a reputation beyond reputebcworld has a reputation beyond reputebcworld has a reputation beyond reputebcworld has a reputation beyond reputebcworld has a reputation beyond reputebcworld has a reputation beyond reputebcworld has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by GarryP
Looks like the 2 party preferred split will be something like 58:42 - and that's a white wash in relative terms.

Morrison will be having a brown trousers moment.
It's not just a federal story though...at a state level the Andrews government has been pretty phenomenal...I think a lot of people can see that. Meanwhile Guy is just relentlessly negative, until his porcelain grin started appearing on billboards everywhere...and all over the Herald Sun of course. I think it's great that seemingly a lot of people have put their general partisan view aside and recognised good government.
bcworld is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2018, 8:25 am
  #1378  
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
 
GarryP's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
GarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Originally Posted by bcworld
It's not just a federal story though...at a state level the Andrews government has been pretty phenomenal...I think a lot of people can see that. Meanwhile Guy is just relentlessly negative, until his porcelain grin started appearing on billboards everywhere...and all over the Herald Sun of course. I think it's great that seemingly a lot of people have put their general partisan view aside and recognised good government.
The split, relative to the polling, has shifted even further towards labor. That's what should be worrying Morrison with a federal poll come up.

Mind, I do wonder if the rail tunnel policy is what pulled the eastern suburb vote so strongly towards labor.
GarryP is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2018, 8:34 am
  #1379  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
ozzieeagle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
ozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Free Tafe bext year has been a massive drawcard. Plus Melbourne seems to be booming on all fronts.
ozzieeagle is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2018, 8:37 am
  #1380  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
ozzieeagle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
ozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond reputeozzieeagle has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.

Melburnians have also seen through the Apex law and order bullsheet... Seen it for what it really is. Youth problems rarher than a race issue.
ozzieeagle is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.