GarryP

You talk as if the desire for the CEOs to drive down employee pay and rights is a battle of the past. Even you realise that's a war that's never won - just look at the attack on overtime payments etc. And as we have talked about, its going to get much worse as automation comes along and decimates industry employment.

You could get rid of the need for unions, but then you'd have to have laws that made CEOs play to the good of society, rather than the shareholders. And to get that you'd need a real left wing government ....

Beoz

You talk like those governed by awards (small proportion of population) have it bad in the first place. They don't. They have one of the best pay deals in the western world.

This is why in a country like Australia where they pay deals are so good, keeping the corporates happy is so important.

What's better. Some jobs or no jobs? If the unions had their way their would be none.

GarryP

False equivalence. The real choice is between the fruits of higher profits flowing to the workers, or the CEO/shareholder bank balances. The reality is the first is better, big picture, but greed and corruption means what happens is the second.

If the CEOs had their way, there would be nobody to buy their products.

Oh and BTW, I've seen some modelling that suggests that the LNP could edge it in more of those 6 seats - but it's so knife edge you wouldn't want to sneeze. They are looking at postal votes shifting things from a few hundred one way to a few hundred the other. Will the asymmetry be that significant? We might eventually know, but with postal votes still flowing in...

ozzieeagle

I'm fairly ambivelent re Shorten, he does seem to be learning far better on the job than any of his predecessors, all the way back to Keating is the only observation I'll make at this stage.

As for the role of Unions, and bully boy tactics. I'm very surprised at you in particular on this one Badge. There are just as many Bully boys on the other side of the fence, if not more. I don't get the fact that people wont let this one sink into their psyche.

I never needed a union with the Gas and Fuel, they were great employers, or at any Job I had in the UK before migration. However the fact that Post signalled that they wouldn't be letting me take time off, to take part in our home birth for our last child 18 years ago, without booking the exact time months in advance, was the catalyst for me joining the union. Turned out unbeknown to me I was also owed 1,000's in backpay as the local boss was giving me time off in lieu by sending me home early on quiet days v working late on busy days....... and not at time and a half as supposed to with overtime. They also sorted out the leave for our upcoming home birth as well.... all within 5 mins, as opposed to the weeks I'd been trying to get through to my local managers that you cannot schedule a birth... especially a "Natural home birth".... that was unnecessarily very stressful and very much bully boy stuff.

You bet we need unions. There were also a couple of crap part time jobs that I did after the Gas and Fuel and pre Post where Unions were definitely needed... one in particular where you had to put you hand up for permission to go to the toilet and wasn't allowed to talk... that was in data entry.

Beoz

The fruits of profits only roll to the workers if there is a business strategy in place that allows workers to own the company or parts of it. If that doesn't occur then the owners receive the profits ... and rightly so. Business isn't a charity.

Now ... if we want to discuss whether employee ownership of companies is a good thing lets discuss. It is my book. Plenty of employees own part of the business they work for. You can buy shares, be rewarded in stock allocations and the like. Its good for businesses to have workers take some ownership and subsequent responsibility.

GarryP

Which is where the big picture is sliding you by.

You are describing what IS, I was describing what needs to be.

If the CEOs have no restraining laws then we end up in slave labour - we know because we've been there before. And for our society to work EVERYONE needs to benefit from their labours - so the money keeps going around.

In large part the upheavals you are seeing around the world are due to that reality being ignored and the poor getting shafted. Guess what, doesn't work long term.


BTW thought occurs to me, are postal votes opened in the order received?

I guess yes, which means the vote will be temporally correlated. Those that are likely to send in votes early at the beginning, and those that leave to the last minute at the end. If that correlates to voting intention (and it probably does via the elderly) then the postal vote makeup will shift over the count.

I wonder if anyone has studied that?

knockoff nige

Well no. Your salary review is usually largely based on the performance of that company. If it does well, and you have done a good job, you might get a pay rise. Unfortunately, many companies can interpret an improved bottom line as not something that can be considered for salary reviews (even though CEO's will always get their bonus).

Beoz

What is sliding you by is that free ride and age of self entitlement is over and in its place is business mobility that can up and leave you high and dry in a flash.

I think we can all agree that supporting the big end of town in Australia is a must (despite the BS from BS). Without the big end, you don't have a job.

The feeling I get is you want the big end to give you handouts with nothing in return. That's the type of greed that's consuming the left wing right now and things don't work that way.

If you want a piece of the pie you have to have skin in the game. Simple as that.

Beoz

If you don't like the way your company pays you, or rewards you, leave, rather than smashing your fists on the table like a spoilt child.

ozzieeagle

Your faith in the big end is shockingly naive, unless your being deliberately disingenous to enhance your political belief mindset.

Beoz

Do you have a job without the big end? No ...... without the big end no one sends post. Without the big end you would have been made redundant years ago with a healthy pay out. Now whilst that might be what "you you you" wants there are plenty of people who want to continue to work and we as a whole country need people to work.

I think you've been drinking too much of the BS kool aid if you believe the big end is not needed in the country.

GarryP

Why allow the formation of the 'big end' at all?

The only reason is that they are a benefit to society, otherwise, what's the point?

As such you need to make sure they deliver that benefit. A million in the bank is the reward for that benefit, not a right.

knockoff nige

Who has slammed their fists? Not me. I thonk it's quite bizarre how quick you are to defend corporate greed. Maybe you're actually the CEO for CommBank.

the troubadour

They were reduced in statue pure and simply due to lack of policy. Or at least nothing that would sit with any degree of comfort with the majority of Australians.


Lesson being govern for al Australians not just the corporates and rich. I imagine the coalition will be struggling being so devoid of policy, unless of course they can ramp up the fear factor yet again.

ozzieeagle

I dont think Ahmed had much focus on his customers or his employees when he and his board unloaded 100's of NAB staff members across the country. I'd say his focus was primarily on his and his boards bonuses and shareholders profits.

Same with Telstra when they shift 100's of jobs overseas, they're not thinking about their customers and definitely not about their employees either.... rather their boards bonuses and shareholders profits.

Thing is Ahmed has now struck the biggest hurdle in his nepotistic mercurial backroom dealing career.... The Victorian branch of the CEPU. When Post goes down... he will go down with it for absolute sure.... I reckon he'll jump ship before then. Especially as Katter and Hanson (spit) will definitely back Post to stay in public hands.

I'm sure people haven't realised how many dirty private deals are going on at a corporate level re Aus post and how much asset stripping is going on with what is supposed to be primarily a government service.