knockoff nige

I don't resent the wealthy. I'm quite comfortable financially myself. Corporations who dodge their tax responsibilities are not 'the wealthy'. I think that's where our discussions might have been going wrong. I'm not posting out of jealousy. I would prefer a government with a conscience and one that had ideas other than destructive ones. If Australia is actually about 'a fair go', that's being attacked by these guys for the sake of their own selfish agenda. A royal commission into the insulation scheme. Completely politically motivated. It's a really needless commission and a waste of money. They want to pin these deaths in Labour and, from that, make it clear that voting for Labour is vote for shonky work and probably more fatalities. But for some reason, this type of cost is necessary in a 'budget emergency'.

Yes, I'm not Labour. Politics is not a football rivalry.

Beoz

But how do you know if their ideas are destructive or constructive? Have you seen it in action? There was was alternative though, sit on your hands and do nothing. Oh sorry, squabble with each other and swap in and out leaders at will.

Really? I think its a perfect example of making politicians accountable for their actions. Now we all want that don't we? Or we could take the alternative - lets let Muddle/Gillard/Fuddle swan around with big fat pensions and personal drivers for the rest of their lives.

knockoff nige

Yes, we have seen it in action. The budget they've written is for us all to see. It's written for the rich and the already super rich corporations. They're cutting funding in health, education and the environment. They are selling assets such as Medicare private and 'encouraging' state governments to sell off their assets in return for some more government funding. These assets generate revenue. They are selling off for short term gain which is destructive. They are making it more difficult to get a University degree. That's destructive. They are discouraging GP visits which will put pressure on hospitals. That's very destructive. They want to apply less pressure on big polluters to lower emissions. That's, quite obviously, destructive. They have created zero jobs and been responsible for the loss of thousands. Destructive. What exactly have they accomplished? Sat a boat out in the ocean to give traffic signals to people smugglers. Genius.

We're the previous government responsible for the deaths that occurred during this insulation program? No. They are correct to expect contractors to obey health and safety rules. They don't sit on site and instruct to 'bend the knees' and 'don't run with scissors'. The previous government should be held responsible for failing in the policies they campaigned with. As should this government. But millions wasted on this witch hunt is stupid. It's amazing that you will defend these guys so much.

Beoz

I'll defend when your ideas are so radically one eyed Labour (despite you telling us you are not). On top of that I'll defend ideas that are good - like reducing welfare dependency. But I'll also have an open discussion with someone who wants to have an open discussion. I've already thrown out my thoughts on university fees and constructive, future thinking reasons why they are bad.

knockoff nige

Radically one eyed? Yet I've pointed out the dangers and destruction of the coalitions budget. Again, I'm not Labor. You just want me to be as then you have a reason to oppose, I can't see another reason why you'd keep on insisting. You accept that there is no budget emergency but you accept removing welfare for individuals who need it (because some people need a kick up the arse) and are in favour of corporate welfare where it's not needed because they are nice enough to give us jobs. They would still give us jobs. The mines can't be moved elsewhere. There is still a thriving economy in Australia which will always attract investment.

Reducing welfare dependency is a very good idea. How you do that involves a bit smarter thinking than simply taking the money away or increasing it at a slower rate. Create jobs, offer proper incentives such as affordable childcare instead of a ridiculous paid parental leave scheme or cheaper education. I don't like the idea of handing money out endlessly with no incentive to change. But there is a bigger danger in just taking money away. People who can't adjust when the goalposts are moved will need to find other ways to survive.

This budget and this government might fit your own personal circumstances as they are now and I guess that's a fair enough reason to vote for them. But, they don't have a long term vision. You think they do but you're not seeing the reasons for their decisions. They want to invest in the rich end of town. The taxi drivers, sales assistants, road sweepers, gardeners don't factor. They need to be responsible for their own future and they are. But they, as we all should, depend on affordable health and education and a sustainable environment. How exactly is any of that one eyed?

BASHO

And now comes the QLD state budget---and just wait---the local Council budget is right on it's heels.

I'm an oap and whilst these budgets may not send everyone into a recession they just might me if his rate of increased charges continues.

Beoz

No. The mines aren't going anywhere. Even better, there's plenty more to be dug, but you need buyers for this stuff. Buyers who are willing to say that Australia has the best dust around so we are willing to pay through the roof for it. ...... not really how Chinese people operate right?

Luckily for the taxi drivers, the gardeners, the sales assistants and the like they live in a county with one of the highest minimum wages in the world. And if the ACTU have their way this will increase again. In comparison to most countries around the world the difference between rich and poor in Australia is very minimal. There is room for movement here. Lots of room.

So the economy might be thriving (debatable) but there is debt and debt that is growing. Has Europe and the US not been evidence enough that mounting debt needs to be reigned in? The budget ideas are not drastic austerity measures. They are minimal compared to what Costello did 10 or so years ago or what Britain has recently and successfully done. Have some faith ...... it might just work out OK

Beoz

I saw something on the TV the other night. They interviewed a western sydney 'chick'. She was having a moan the govt planned on taking this from her and that from her and at the end she said "now I am going to have to get a better paying job in the city which means an added 2 hour commute to my day" . Well love welcome to the real world where billions spend the precious time commuting to their place of employment. On the other hand they interviewed a guy, with family, mortgage to pay, who was earning over 180k and who was going to be slugged with personal tax increases. He said "well if it takes this to get the country moving in the right direction then I'm ok with this".

The "me me me" attitude in comparison to the "everyone everyone everyone" attitude makes me laugh everytime.

knockoff nige

There will always be investors in the mines, even if there is less profit available. The economy shouldn't be held to ransom over Australias own resources. It should use them to make the maximum profit it can. It is not.

Having a higher minimum wage means very little when the cost of living is so high. If you want to compare Australia to the likes of India or China then we really might as well end this conversation now. Getting paid a few extra dollars an hour gets you nothing if the basic resources are not affordable.

The economy is thriving, the debt is growing. The current government are also spending. Are they wasting money? Massively. But they will cut from basic needs that they see as frills.

There is a difference between Australia ten years ago, Britain today and todays Australia. We avoided a recession, we have very sustainable debt and so drastic measures to hit lower earners are not required. Cut spending where required. Removing the carbon tax takes away revenue. Leaving the rebates given to families that were introduced because of the Carbon tax means we don't profit, in fact lose, by removing the Carbon tax. How does that make sense?

There is no faith to be had with this government. Why would you have faith in someone who has lied repeatedly to you?

Joe Hockey said we will have a two tier health system if we don't have the $7 co-payment for GP visits. A payment that does not go into our health system. Just another lie to get you on board.

Also, that western sydney 'chick' had a point. Do you think everyone should find a job in the CBD as times get tough? How would the smaller towns survive? She might have been speaking for herself and can, quite rightly, seek a better paying job, but if you put it into context of all lower paid people, your point doesn't work.

Beoz

The government can't dictate the world hunger for resources. If the world is no longer hungry, you support the mining industry the best you can. When its not employing as many people as it once did (those employees pay tax BTW) you don't slug it with extra costs, making it less competitive, ultimately reducing employment and available tax revenue.

Catch 22. Having a high minimum wage means higher cost of living. Again supply and demand. If people could not afford to buy, costs would reduce to suit.

Building infrastructure is a basic need for the rich and poor. It also creates jobs and keep the movement of money circulating around. Am I missing something you aren't telling us.

Avoid recession because of the legacy the previous Howard government had put in place. NO DEBT. A bit of mining, nothing else to it really.

And the flip side is a hike in electricity, petrol prices, and other energy prices for your taxi drivers, the gardeners, the sales assistants

Now let me see. Lets say TB had done his whole term with no budget changes. We'd be in more debt, and we might as well continue to have the old silver fox and the ginger minger running the country. The country voted and said "no more labour"

Thank god they thrash around ideas. Imagine, just imagine if they came out with an idea and had to stick to it because Knockoff is on such moral high ground.

It's the attitude mate. Its the will to do something to change your own situation. If you are willing to help yourself then you should be rewarded for that. In the case above, she was not willing to help herself, and join the thousands of others who have the will, the fight, to jump on a train in western Sydney everyday.

knockoff nige

Here's another idea. Think of the real emergency as being the household debt in Australia. This is something that the Howard government is actually responsible for and is ridiculously out of control. As a country we can invest in infrastructure as we stand, but we could see a massive hit to the economy if household debt is not addressed.

Beoz

The above is true.

Anyhow

We're really going nowhere with this. If we support the mining industry as you say, why not the same for the car industry? Do those thousands of tax payers not count? These workers pay tax, sure. But there is a massive amount of corporate tax that isn't being paid because profits are sent overseas.

You are suggesting the mining industry is practising tax avoidance. That's fine, I can't agree or disagree on that. I have no idea if your conspiracy theory is true or not. But really what you are saying is the mining industry should be penalised because ...... well, I cannot figure out why. It has no relation to the car industry. Neither are penalised nor propped .... officially .... conspiracy theories aside.

Having a higher minimum wage does not mean a higher cost of living. Or are you suggesting that people on lower incomes can't control their own finances responsibly and therefore should not be paid as much? If people are earning more, ie a higher minimum wage, we have more tax income. This makes public health and education more affordable for everyone.

Nice twist .... again ..... poor people not controlling their finances. Your words, not mine.

Must crack on

knockoff nige

Tax avoidance? Of course they are. All the large multinational companies are doing it. It's probably suicide to not do it if they want to stay competitive. To fix that, Australia would need cooperation from other countries though such as US, UK, France, Germany and Ireland (where corporation tax is very low). The mining companies get tax benefits of something like $10 billion a year. These are companies making combined profits close to Australia's debt. Yet, they need welfare.

Actually, on that last point, I was hoping you'd explain what you said better. If people have more money, that doesn't mean they will have a higher cost of living. I could get a massive salary increase tomorrow and yet still live in the same place, have the same car etc. so, I didn't know what you were getting at.

We can agree then, Abbot is a knuckle dragger.

Beoz

Why, because he looks like a monkey?

knockoff nige

Thats a fair reason. But there are others.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment...-1226940367958

Even George Bush would get a laugh out of him.