Lion in Winter

The unis need the international student fees. If they were funded properly as a national resource, they wouldn't have to recruit so hard overseas.

Charismatic

Initial impressions based on the high level details reported so far is that, in substance, it's a carbon copy of the deal Theresa May negotiated and Boris went off in a huff about, isn't it?

BritInParis

What was the ‘deal’ May negotiated? If you’re referring to the Chequers plan then it was only a proposal outlined in a white paper before being soundly rejected by everyone. Its primary aim was to keep the UK in the single market for goods by applying a common rule book which is not happening under the current Brexit deal.

BEVS

Quite. Also if they did not over-reach themselves in what their function is supposed to be.

Amazulu

The international student sector is one area of our economy that I hope doesn't recover. The whole setup is a con - it's basically a vehicle to provide young Asian people with permanent residency, with many of them undeserving of it. The whole export earnings for the country angle is also largely bullshit

abner

Oh, bloody nonsense.

They pay their own way through university, and indeed subsidise Australian students in the process.

And, from the ones who do stay afterwards, Australia gets a healthy supply of bright, motivated, English-speaking immigrants from a variety of countries, with a first-world uni degree. Oh, and some family money (and ambition) behind them that made it all happen to begin with, and which bodes well for their success in Australia--and *for* Australia.

Beoz

What makes a deserving immigrant? There are many different ways of immigration, for me, given the contribution OS students make to the local economy, this is a good one. The only draw back I can see is reduced university places for locals, and I am not even sure this is an issue.

In addition to this OS students provide a much needed, low cost, temporary workforce. Aside from thinking Deliveroo drivers and waiters, the lack of these can impact many other industries. There is a joinery shop located near me, and I have been asking him all year to build me some cabinets. I saw him just before Xmas and he says best he can do is May timeframe, providing Job Keeper ends on schedule. He says he just can't find staff. He says before COVID he used to be able to hire OS students to do basic tasks such as sweeping and sanding, but that option has gone away, and he can't find any qualified joiners either. Those he can find want cash so they don't lose their Job Keeper and can keep surfing for the best part of the working week.

the troubadour

I'm afraid on this rare occasion the zulu is correct. Australia's international student has become a de facto immigration policy. The 'ease' of obtaining PR being a major consideration whether to undertake an Australian education, or go to UK/Canada/NZ /USA etc. The quality would hopefully improve with less emphasis on foreign enrollments, but uni's were forced years ago to cover decreased funding by adapting courses to such a market. Many after of course, work for lower pay on graduation and not necessary in area of study.

themerlin

Not easy to pay the course fees
And how is it worse than someone getting in on a "Hairdresser" visa ?

Beoz

It's a good question. The reality is it doesn't matter what the immigration pathway is. Australia will massage the system to suit whatever works for Australia. Personally I am not a big fan of those who turn up and claim asylum as they jumping the queue of those who are genuine seekers following the process.

Amazulu

Sure, some of the categories for skilled migration are bullshit but that doesn't make studying to get PR any less bullshit either

I have no problem with people who study here getting PR - they just need to go home straight after finishing studying and apply to migrate after, say, 5 years or so. No straight from studying to PR - that's nonsense

The university sector needs to re-evaluate what they get from overseas students and what they do for Australia. That may mean some tough times for them in the short term, but as you learn at business school. sometimes an organisation has to shrink to get better

Amazulu

As someone who has recent experience of post-graduate study in Australia, I can assure you that's often not the case

In many cases their English is just not up to scratch for a university-level education. Many universities are well aware of this and allow it to happen as they are blinded by exorbitant overseas fees - and know that many of these students are 'carried' though there studies by English speaking students using group projects

abner

YMMV and all that.

My eldest and her fiance have recently graduated from G8 universities, and haven't found English comprehension and expression to be much of a barrier with foreign students, given a bit of patience. There has been more of an initial disconnect in terms of sorting out roles / responsibilities / deliverables for group assignments, particularly at the undergrad level. But that hasn't proved insurmountable either.

abner

Why, exactly?

Amazulu

Because that's the studying to PR bullshit that's the main aim of many overseas students

Study. Go home. Work for a few years to get some experience. Apply for residency. Like most of us on here had to

The students benefit. Australia benefits

Easy, peasy Japanesy

The advantages of a large, ever expanding overseas student sector is largely overblown anyway. It's lazy government policy too