Originally Posted by stevenglish (Post 6270249)

Did you play for West Ham Fraser? Top man

Originally Posted by stevenglish (Post 6270249)

Did you play for West Ham Fraser? Top man

Originally Posted by stevenglish (Post 6270249)

Did you play for West Ham Fraser?

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack (Post 6268545)

I'm back after 40hours of travelling and 5 planes(!)

UK notes: Pluses and minuses.

- The first thing that got us was how cramped everything feeled.
There was a dawning realisation that our modest home in Australia is not so small after all. Streets seemed impossibly narrow but could be crossed in steps - handy with a pushchair.

-It was unseasonably cold and it snowed the first day a far cry from my last April.
+ I told everyone that I recalled the long (and hot) summer of 2003
and most people told me that had been the last really good summer. People did not seem to remember any long warm periods in summer in recent years.

+ My brother had told us to be prepared to be shocked with the traffic. Well all week there was hardly any.

- It finally dawned on us belatedly - it was school holidays(!)

- A trip to the supermarket was interesting. The prices were alot more than I expected and so I would have to revise my hitherto held view they are cheaper to that they are about the same as Australia which other recent posters have commented on (and I didn't believe).

+ There is certainly alot more choice and variety particularly in pre-packaged foods. The real champion is BOGOF that alleviates the expense.
(I did notice something which noone has ever picked up on or noted in this forum. The variety is a bit misleading. For example, the linear metres of cheese selection on closer inspection turned out to
be 3m of one cheese in one quantity followed by 3m of the same in another quantity. Another 6m of aisle was devoted to the same, but with a slight variation - eg. 'low' salt. This was repeated in alot of lines from yoghurts to package foods and there actually seemed to be more choice [and a lot more quantity] than there was. Australian supermarkets hold less of any one line.)

- We were enticed to buy some ready meals from M&S which looked a million dollars and we thought we'd give them a go on the allure of their packaging. Surprisingly, they tasted nothing less than absolutely awful which was truly disappointing.

+ We noticed how well dressed people were and how well groomed they were and well educated. Not a single fat person in sight - sorry but Australians seem to carry fatter people. Their winter clothing seemed very expensive or technical based loads of climbing and outdoor tech gear compared to the sweatshirt or cheap Chinese fleece that Australians wear in winter.
(Having said that my old man lives in a very expensive borough of London which has got better and better - beyond parrallel now. A 4 bed semi house with a bit of character is GBP600k, even a 3bed maisonette is GBP400k.)

- As soon as we crossed into other parts of London outside my father's corridor to see friends we were shocked to see issues. People got fatter, we saw 'Chavs', feral people, inequality. As the trip went by we saw more and more of it and we both agreed that the area was tantamount
and prices reflect that. We even found the small flats friends lived in amusing. We kept banging into door frames and walls as
we walked through their homes(!) The West Midlands seemed very depressed and the people reminded me of the more feral people reported in Australia.

- Everyone seemed to have a bit of an issue with the Poles. We saw some people who were very loud (even abusive) on public transport. This seemed to be tradies organising their next gigs and the language barrier understandably seemed to cause irritation for all. My offering that often migrants do the work that locals forsake was countered with the fact they do the same work for less pay and better too.....(!)

+ My brother's neighbour is a Polish family. My wife really took to the mother (as she had a baby the same age) and we were invited to a party - the only Brits there. They all seemed amazed at the innocent way we really wanted to hear all about them and I think to start with they distrusted us as it seemed they werent used to the attention.

+ People were very polite and friendly. A lot of people wanted to help a family with 2 small (<3yrs ) children. Incredibly, following on from small talk, alot asked us 'what part of Australia' we were from(!) As far as I could see, from our trip to N America, S America and the UK, the reputation of Australians is still high in the world and people positively beemed with interest when told we lived in Australia, (although we were quick to point out our actual respective places of birth).

I would conclude from our experiences that despite self-criticism of some badly-behaved Australians from their own bethren in parts (source: The Age) the overall worldwide rep is still highly positive. If I ever had to curry favour or ingratiate myself somewhere overseas (in a somewhat opportunist manner) I would offer my Australian passport in favour of my British passport. Australian friends amazed us with how British they had become, whilst they laughed at forgotten Australian phrases we used....tit for tat.

- We had some very bad experiences with Public transport regarding strollers.
- I couldn't believe the way customer service supervisors referred to us. When dealing with an issue, in a away I now recall, they would talk or refer to you through their staff member. "Tell the customer he can't have that due to a/ b" in a particularly socially stark awkward manner, when we were standing right there. My experience is that an Australian supervisor would tell you direct and be polite and candid about it.

+ As a sort of exercise, I spent some of my time there trying to find a community in a village similar to the place we have here and one part of the UK caught my eye - Wales/ the Welsh borders.
- One realisation that hit me though was that here the countryside was beautiful but the housing stock tiny. To get acreage would push the cost through the roof and properties would be inordinately expensive sort of falling into choice farmhouse or 'B&B' territory. Other stock was worker's cottage type offerings. Here there is a sort of equitable distributon; every one
has acreage.

+ Another place that caught my eye was where my grandmother lives in a fantastic village in Leicestershire.
- But again the housing stock was a bit limited and there was not much more than a little high street. I found the countryside otherwise disappointing to be honest; rather low-lying and barren.


Returning

My wife tells me she misses not just Australia but our life in Australia. My return to Melbourne has been VERY pleasant. I was able to expedite entry with a chipped Australian passport which was fun. The air felt crisp and clean.

Incredibly, it seemed better than ever before and the view from the Bolte
made it seem world class. Here, countryside was on a par or even better than the Uk and I've realised how much for granted I take it. Even the new suburbs seemed nice - I think I might even have been harsh on them in the past. Infact I've realised I've been over-critical of some places, traits and that as it turned out, familarity had breeded contempt after all which a break helped fix.

Within hours of getting back I was enjoying all the things we get up to here with some mates (bit of a network here where everyone mixes in on their properties. I was jetlagged beyond belief but still able to muck in) and it felt just so right doing all these things. It's a light world from the sort of lives that others report.

I've realised that the debate in some ways has nothing to do with Australia vs Uk. More so, it is area vs area and what suits your expectatation, budget and requirements. I found one of the places I would like to live in the UK - SW London - but at what cost(!)

It's only worth moving to Australia if it benefits the migrant in all ways and that is still many. There are people who will always miss or fail to see the opportunity or fail to get the right ticks in the boxes which is getting harder and harder. Some people will always benefit from the move.

cheers

BM

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle (Post 6270661)

Great post, I'll be able to give my views in 3 months, I'm curious about which part of SW London though... Chiswick ? Barnes ? Richmond.

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack (Post 6270147)

Hope it's not too overwhelming an event(!). (I'd add one of those emoticons but the number available seems limited and I want to save them for Hutch). Mate give me a shout if you are ever in Melbourne. Likewise, I would if I may, give you a shout if I am ever in Adelaide - checking that you are there first of course.

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack (Post 6268545)

I'm back after 40hours of travelling and 5 planes(!)

UK notes: Pluses and minuses.

- The first thing that got us was how cramped everything feeled.
There was a dawning realisation that our modest home in Australia is not so small after all. Streets seemed impossibly narrow but could be crossed in steps - handy with a pushchair.

-It was unseasonably cold and it snowed the first day a far cry from my last April.
+ I told everyone that I recalled the long (and hot) summer of 2003
and most people told me that had been the last really good summer. People did not seem to remember any long warm periods in summer in recent years.

+ My brother had told us to be prepared to be shocked with the traffic. Well all week there was hardly any.

- It finally dawned on us belatedly - it was school holidays(!)

- A trip to the supermarket was interesting. The prices were alot more than I expected and so I would have to revise my hitherto held view they are cheaper to that they are about the same as Australia which other recent posters have commented on (and I didn't believe).

+ There is certainly alot more choice and variety particularly in pre-packaged foods. The real champion is BOGOF that alleviates the expense.
(I did notice something which noone has ever picked up on or noted in this forum. The variety is a bit misleading. For example, the linear metres of cheese selection on closer inspection turned out to
be 3m of one cheese in one quantity followed by 3m of the same in another quantity. Another 6m of aisle was devoted to the same, but with a slight variation - eg. 'low' salt. This was repeated in alot of lines from yoghurts to package foods and there actually seemed to be more choice [and a lot more quantity] than there was. Australian supermarkets hold less of any one line.)

- We were enticed to buy some ready meals from M&S which looked a million dollars and we thought we'd give them a go on the allure of their packaging. Surprisingly, they tasted nothing less than absolutely awful which was truly disappointing.

+ We noticed how well dressed people were and how well groomed they were and well educated. Not a single fat person in sight - sorry but Australians seem to carry fatter people. Their winter clothing seemed very expensive or technical based loads of climbing and outdoor tech gear compared to the sweatshirt or cheap Chinese fleece that Australians wear in winter.
(Having said that my old man lives in a very expensive borough of London which has got better and better - beyond parrallel now. A 4 bed semi house with a bit of character is GBP600k, even a 3bed maisonette is GBP400k.)

- As soon as we crossed into other parts of London outside my father's corridor to see friends we were shocked to see issues. People got fatter, we saw 'Chavs', feral people, inequality. As the trip went by we saw more and more of it and we both agreed that the area was tantamount
and prices reflect that. We even found the small flats friends lived in amusing. We kept banging into door frames and walls as
we walked through their homes(!) The West Midlands seemed very depressed and the people reminded me of the more feral people reported in Australia.

- Everyone seemed to have a bit of an issue with the Poles. We saw some people who were very loud (even abusive) on public transport. This seemed to be tradies organising their next gigs and the language barrier understandably seemed to cause irritation for all. My offering that often migrants do the work that locals forsake was countered with the fact they do the same work for less pay and better too.....(!)

+ My brother's neighbour is a Polish family. My wife really took to the mother (as she had a baby the same age) and we were invited to a party - the only Brits there. They all seemed amazed at the innocent way we really wanted to hear all about them and I think to start with they distrusted us as it seemed they werent used to the attention.

+ People were very polite and friendly. A lot of people wanted to help a family with 2 small (<3yrs ) children. Incredibly, following on from small talk, alot asked us 'what part of Australia' we were from(!) As far as I could see, from our trip to N America, S America and the UK, the reputation of Australians is still high in the world and people positively beemed with interest when told we lived in Australia, (although we were quick to point out our actual respective places of birth).

I would conclude from our experiences that despite self-criticism of some badly-behaved Australians from their own bethren in parts (source: The Age) the overall worldwide rep is still highly positive. If I ever had to curry favour or ingratiate myself somewhere overseas (in a somewhat opportunist manner) I would offer my Australian passport in favour of my British passport. Australian friends amazed us with how British they had become, whilst they laughed at forgotten Australian phrases we used....tit for tat.

- We had some very bad experiences with Public transport regarding strollers.
- I couldn't believe the way customer service supervisors referred to us. When dealing with an issue, in a away I now recall, they would talk or refer to you through their staff member. "Tell the customer he can't have that due to a/ b" in a particularly socially stark awkward manner, when we were standing right there. My experience is that an Australian supervisor would tell you direct and be polite and candid about it.

+ As a sort of exercise, I spent some of my time there trying to find a community in a village similar to the place we have here and one part of the UK caught my eye - Wales/ the Welsh borders.
- One realisation that hit me though was that here the countryside was beautiful but the housing stock tiny. To get acreage would push the cost through the roof and properties would be inordinately expensive sort of falling into choice farmhouse or 'B&B' territory. Other stock was worker's cottage type offerings. Here there is a sort of equitable distributon; every one
has acreage.

+ Another place that caught my eye was where my grandmother lives in a fantastic village in Leicestershire.
- But again the housing stock was a bit limited and there was not much more than a little high street. I found the countryside otherwise disappointing to be honest; rather low-lying and barren.


Returning

My wife tells me she misses not just Australia but our life in Australia. My return to Melbourne has been VERY pleasant. I was able to expedite entry with a chipped Australian passport which was fun. The air felt crisp and clean.

Incredibly, it seemed better than ever before and the view from the Bolte
made it seem world class. Here, countryside was on a par or even better than the Uk and I've realised how much for granted I take it. Even the new suburbs seemed nice - I think I might even have been harsh on them in the past. Infact I've realised I've been over-critical of some places, traits and that as it turned out, familarity had breeded contempt after all which a break helped fix.

Within hours of getting back I was enjoying all the things we get up to here with some mates (bit of a network here where everyone mixes in on their properties. I was jetlagged beyond belief but still able to muck in) and it felt just so right doing all these things. It's a light world from the sort of lives that others report.

I've realised that the debate in some ways has nothing to do with Australia vs Uk. More so, it is area vs area and what suits your expectatation, budget and requirements. I found one of the places I would like to live in the UK - SW London - but at what cost(!)

It's only worth moving to Australia if it benefits the migrant in all ways and that is still many. There are people who will always miss or fail to see the opportunity or fail to get the right ticks in the boxes which is getting harder and harder. Some people will always benefit from the move.

cheers

BM

Originally Posted by SW3105 (Post 6273160)

Excellent post - makes me want to leave the UK even more.

Originally Posted by moneypen20 (Post 6270319)

Nah, they're rubbish enough without him helping them :p

Originally Posted by SW3105 (Post 6273160)

Excellent post - makes me want to leave the UK even more.

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack (Post 6273829)

:o I had hoped that the positives had come out. If I could afford a 4 bed Victorian house with bags of character in a leafy street in SW London yards from pubs and restaurants with commuting distance to the city with the mortgage being one third of a modest (single) income I would consider living there.

My Dad can count 10 pubs in 1 high street.

Even then I don't think I actually would but I'd consider it...