Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Jun 15th 2006, 6:27 pm
#31
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Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by moneypen20
None of you know exactly what is wrong with the baby. I have never read such judgemental bull in my life. Since when did you all (or nearly all) become judge and jury without knowing the full evidence. There are hundreds of different reasons why a baby (any baby) is born ill. Adults who are in full health, no family history for any illness, do not smoke, drink etc etc still have sick babies.
You don't even KNOW that she did smoke the amount that is stated.
However bad her own mother is, at least she is with her and supporting her - god help the girl had she got you lot as her family. 
You don't even KNOW that she did smoke the amount that is stated.
However bad her own mother is, at least she is with her and supporting her - god help the girl had she got you lot as her family. 
Jun 15th 2006, 6:30 pm
#32
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by Sallyanne
Oh come off it - someone who allows her daughter to behave in this way is "supporting" her?? If the girl had me as her family she would be in the house doing her homework.
Prove to me that she doesn't do her homework 
Jun 15th 2006, 6:32 pm
#33
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Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by moneypen20
Oh good, at last someone who actually knows the family. Prove to me that she doesn't do her homework
Prove to me that she doesn't do her homework
Jun 15th 2006, 6:37 pm
#34
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by Sallyanne
Something has gone seriously wrong if we think the mother of this girl was doing an acceptable job.
I am totally atheist but I understand in the bible story there is a quote which goes something along the lines of "if you are without guilt, lob a rock" . I am impressed I am in the company of such fantastic worthy people
Jun 15th 2006, 6:47 pm
#35
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Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by moneypen20
No body thinks the mother has done an acceptable job but I will say again before I get totally bored by the whole thing - all anyone on here knows is what is written in a couple of crappy tabloids. NO ONE knows the truth of the story so to judge someone so violently is just plain wrong.
I am totally atheist but I understand in the bible story there is a quote which goes something along the lines of "if you are without guilt, lob a rock" . I am impressed I am in the company of such fantastic worthy people
I am totally atheist but I understand in the bible story there is a quote which goes something along the lines of "if you are without guilt, lob a rock" . I am impressed I am in the company of such fantastic worthy people
I'm a wet liberal but there comes a time when people have to be told what they are doing is unacceptable.
Jun 15th 2006, 6:49 pm
#36
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Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by snowbunny
The very low maternal age is probably a greater risk factor for the baby than the smoking.
Source:
http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanu...er250/250b.jsp
Same source says that only 20% of women who smoke quit during pregnancy. So this girl is in the majority *of all women* who smoke.
An 11-going-on-12-year-old is still growing, still has not reached full height and weight, and is in desperate need of high quality and quantity nutrition. Girls of this age are very poorly physically equipped to carry a baby. We do not know if the baby was born in distress; meconium aspiration and prematurity affect the lungs far more than does maternal smoking, *where the smoking risk is actually greater the older the mother is*.
While yes, this girl should have quit smoking, she would be fighting the odds of all pregnant smokers, and her very young age put her and her baby at tremendous risk of complications. I am appalled at the adults in the society who "raised" this child -- not just her parents -- the society entire.
Don't demonise her; there are many more like her and more to come. Volunteer with at-risk kids to keep it happening again, and for God's sake work with the boys!
Source:
http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanu...er250/250b.jsp
Same source says that only 20% of women who smoke quit during pregnancy. So this girl is in the majority *of all women* who smoke.
An 11-going-on-12-year-old is still growing, still has not reached full height and weight, and is in desperate need of high quality and quantity nutrition. Girls of this age are very poorly physically equipped to carry a baby. We do not know if the baby was born in distress; meconium aspiration and prematurity affect the lungs far more than does maternal smoking, *where the smoking risk is actually greater the older the mother is*.
While yes, this girl should have quit smoking, she would be fighting the odds of all pregnant smokers, and her very young age put her and her baby at tremendous risk of complications. I am appalled at the adults in the society who "raised" this child -- not just her parents -- the society entire.
Don't demonise her; there are many more like her and more to come. Volunteer with at-risk kids to keep it happening again, and for God's sake work with the boys!
I think that there is more to the first para quoted in the link, and that it's actually to do with the socioeconomic status of the females who become pregnant at such a young age. (Or the households they belong to - a 12 yr old is not allowed to work!) (In my training we are being taught to pick all sorts of "evidence" to pieces, hence my pickiness.)
Jun 15th 2006, 6:53 pm
#37
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by Sallyanne
I am without guilt when it comes to allowing my 10 year old daughter to smoke and drink, and when she is 11 I will not be guilty of letting her go to a party where she can have sex with a 15 year old.
I'm a wet liberal but there comes a time when people have to be told what they are doing is unacceptable.
I'm a wet liberal but there comes a time when people have to be told what they are doing is unacceptable.
Jun 15th 2006, 7:32 pm
#38
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,027
Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by Sallyanne
Is it legal to allow your 9 year old to smoke?
Jun 15th 2006, 7:33 pm
#39
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Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 34
Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
Yes, she's a child. Yes, she probably had a bad example set by her mother.
However, this is no excuse for what she has done. Her behaviour was her own choice and nobody else's.
Let's remember that she has not just ruined her own life - she has ruined her child's.
It's the sheer selfishness and self-centeredness of her actions which really gets my goat.
Plus the fact that she's sponging off my tax contributions.
However, this is no excuse for what she has done. Her behaviour was her own choice and nobody else's.
Let's remember that she has not just ruined her own life - she has ruined her child's.
It's the sheer selfishness and self-centeredness of her actions which really gets my goat.
Plus the fact that she's sponging off my tax contributions.
Jun 15th 2006, 9:21 pm
#40
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by Bella Donna
Guess she was wrong about the cigarettes then.... Poor babe...
http://scotlandtoday.scottishtv.colo...1&newsid=11878
Poor babe...http://scotlandtoday.scottishtv.colo...1&newsid=11878
Jun 15th 2006, 9:23 pm
#41
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by barkingRockateer
c'mon Vash cut some slack! She is 12 years old and her cognitive abilities are limited. She is, as you say a child, she has not deliberately sponged off your tax contributions and her selfishness is perhaps without insight? It is a sad and unfortunate case which when she is 45 years old she may regret but at this point doesnt have the comprehension to understand. It is her choice but it is a choice born of limited experience and if you can stand outside the square and look objectively is pitiful.
Jun 15th 2006, 9:52 pm
#42
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,375
Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by moneypen20
None of you know exactly what is wrong with the baby. I have never read such judgemental bull in my life. Since when did you all (or nearly all) become judge and jury without knowing the full evidence. There are hundreds of different reasons why a baby (any baby) is born ill. Adults who are in full health, no family history for any illness, do not smoke, drink etc etc still have sick babies.
You don't even KNOW that she did smoke the amount that is stated. However bad her own mother is, at least she is with her and supporting her - god help the girl had she got you lot as her family.
You don't even KNOW that she did smoke the amount that is stated.
However bad her own mother is, at least she is with her and supporting her - god help the girl had she got you lot as her family. I am glad the judge and jury here didnt see my third son, born with lung problems, to healthy non smoking parents and lying in an incubator next to another baby with lung problems, the father of whom was a consultant himself.
As you say many many factors can cause underveloped lungs in newborns, its quite common.
Jun 15th 2006, 10:39 pm
#43
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by moneypen20
None of you know exactly what is wrong with the baby. I have never read such judgemental bull in my life. Since when did you all (or nearly all) become judge and jury without knowing the full evidence. There are hundreds of different reasons why a baby (any baby) is born ill. Adults who are in full health, no family history for any illness, do not smoke, drink etc etc still have sick babies.
You don't even KNOW that she did smoke the amount that is stated. However bad her own mother is, at least she is with her and supporting her - god help the girl had she got you lot as her family.
You don't even KNOW that she did smoke the amount that is stated.
However bad her own mother is, at least she is with her and supporting her - god help the girl had she got you lot as her family.
Jun 15th 2006, 10:41 pm
#44
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
Originally Posted by Hels
If she was bought up knowing nothing else, then how can she be capable of knowing anything different? At that age, do you REALLY believe they are able to make ADULT decisions based on ADULT experience? It seems to me you are expecting an aweful lot from a child!!
Like I said above, it seems to me you are using adult reasoning to judge this child.
You dont think that a 11/12 year old shouldnt be classed as a victim? IMO she is a victim in EVERY sense of the word in this situation. A victim of her upbringing, a victim of the boy she got pregnant to, a very sad victim of society.
Honestly, Vash...I never picked you as someone quite so cold and judgemental.
Like I said above, it seems to me you are using adult reasoning to judge this child.
You dont think that a 11/12 year old shouldnt be classed as a victim? IMO she is a victim in EVERY sense of the word in this situation. A victim of her upbringing, a victim of the boy she got pregnant to, a very sad victim of society.
Honestly, Vash...I never picked you as someone quite so cold and judgemental.
Jun 15th 2006, 10:45 pm
#45
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,347
Re: Baby of Scotland's youngest mum fights for life
