MrsDagboy

I think there's something wrong with either my computer, or your post Hels. The link doesn't work .

annqldau

Brings whole new meaning to cabbage patch doll's. Think society is at fault not just the kids mother. As you get older and greyer you realise good old 'Mary Whitehouse' may have had some valid points.

The word sex is mentioned all the time now in programmes on about 5pm and lots of shots of adults or teens groping snogging half dressed so kids are very wise now a days about the whole thing. And just in case the kids weren't going to realise the programme would have sex and violence in they make sure they write it on the screen and say it before the programme starts to make sure the kids realise it's going on. Here ending the rant of the day.

The thought of my child of similar age being a Dad is horrifying he can't even keep his room tidy.

Hels

It cant be my post.....nothing is EVER wrong with my posts!!

Vash the Stampede

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you suggesting that she is incapable of knowing that it's not a good idea to start drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, having sex, and giving birth to a child, all between the years of 10 and 12?

If this girl is old enough to read the warning label on a packet of cigarettes, old enough to read the instructions on a packet of condoms, and old enough to know that underage drinking is illegal, she is old enough and intelligent enough to know that she is now paying the price for several years of flaunting the law.

I don't need to know the girl, and I know enough about her circumstances to know that nobody forced her to make those decisions.

Modern society is rife with the culture of victimhood, in which irresponsible members of society blame everyone but themselves for their own actions and the consequences of those actions. What's worse is that the government actually pays them for it.

Millions of other girls out there - some in circumstances just as bad, or even worse - don't end up in the same predicament as this kid.

She was not predestined to her fate; she chose it of her own free will.

Vash the Stampede

Because it's the most likely cause, given the mother's lifestyle.
Seems clear enough to me.

Where do you think the child gets its oxygen from? When the mother smokes, the baby sucks it all down.

• Your baby is likely to weigh less than it would have if you hadn't smoked. Infants who don't weigh enough are likely to have breathing problems.
  
  
• Your baby may be born early and need special care.
  
  
• As your baby grows, he or she is more likely to get asthma.
  
  
• As many as 1 in 10 infant deaths may be related to the mother smoking while she was pregnant.

It's not rocket science.

Sally

Is it legal to allow your 9 year old to smoke? How did she get the cigarettes?

snowbunny

The very low maternal age is probably a greater risk factor for the baby than the smoking.

Source:

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanu...er250/250b.jsp

Same source says that only 20% of women who smoke quit during pregnancy. So this girl is in the majority *of all women* who smoke.

An 11-going-on-12-year-old is still growing, still has not reached full height and weight, and is in desperate need of high quality and quantity nutrition. Girls of this age are very poorly physically equipped to carry a baby. We do not know if the baby was born in distress; meconium aspiration and prematurity affect the lungs far more than does maternal smoking, *where the smoking risk is actually greater the older the mother is*.

While yes, this girl should have quit smoking, she would be fighting the odds of all pregnant smokers, and her very young age put her and her baby at tremendous risk of complications. I am appalled at the adults in the society who "raised" this child -- not just her parents -- the society entire.

Don't demonise her; there are many more like her and more to come. Volunteer with at-risk kids to keep it happening again, and for God's sake work with the boys!

Hels

If she was bought up knowing nothing else, then how can she be capable of knowing anything different? At that age, do you REALLY believe they are able to make ADULT decisions based on ADULT experience? It seems to me you are expecting an aweful lot from a child!!


Like I said above, it seems to me you are using adult reasoning to judge this child.



You dont think that a 11/12 year old shouldnt be classed as a victim? IMO she is a victim in EVERY sense of the word in this situation. A victim of her upbringing, a victim of the boy she got pregnant to, a very sad victim of society.

Honestly, Vash...I never picked you as someone quite so cold and judgemental.

Wave the Sails

Just to add my opinion. It's well known that smoking in pregnancy can cause premature birth. Any birth prior to 37 weeks (considered 'term') may result in the baby having underdeveloped lungs.

2+2=4

movetoperth

There seem to be a lot of knee jerk reactions to this, just as there were in the last thread about this girl. i wonder what the reaction would have been had the original post been something like this...... My 36 year old friend who has been trying for a baby for 6 years has just given birth to a baby girls 6 weeks prem, the baby has breathing difficulties so we are all very worried about her, my friend tried to look after herself during her pregnancy she ate well, exercised, cut down from 15 to 5 cigarettes a day and tried to cut down the hours in her stressful job. Its such a sahme they have been desperate for a baby for so long, would make such good parents, live in a nice house in a good area and are financially comfortable.

or

My 12 year old daughter has just come home in a terrible state, as she walked home she met a gang of adults who shouted things at her such as self centred, selfish, sponger, idiot (thats one i remember from the previous post) etc....... what should i do???

My guess is if it was the first post then there would be lots os sympathy and good wishes for both mother and baby, rightly so, and very little mention of lifestyle, if it was the second there would be lots of sympathy and shock at the comments directed at a 12 year old child by adults........ rightly so...

I'm off to duck for cover

Lynn

moneypenny20

None of you know exactly what is wrong with the baby. I have never read such judgemental bull in my life. Since when did you all (or nearly all) become judge and jury without knowing the full evidence. There are hundreds of different reasons why a baby (any baby) is born ill. Adults who are in full health, no family history for any illness, do not smoke, drink etc etc still have sick babies.

You don't even KNOW that she did smoke the amount that is stated. However bad her own mother is, at least she is with her and supporting her - god help the girl had she got you lot as her family.

Hels

Nice post, Penny!!!!



The Jones Family and movetoperth.....not sure if I am having a blonde moment....but I think I missed the point to both your posts!!

YoSemite

I used to work with kids exactly like this... and we had a couple of pregnant young teens stay with us as well.....

and I didn't matter what anyone said to them, if they had decided that they were going to continue smoking (and even drinking in one case) then there was no way they were being talked out of it.

We were in a residential setting so slightly different... but the most difficult thign was when parents came to visit and gave their pregnant daughters cigarettes... the parents had given them the fags so sanctioned the behaviour - and we weren't allowed take them away (although I believe there may be legislation coming through to say that no child placed in care will be allowed to smoke)

We also had to be really careful what we said to the kids... you spend a couple of weeks going on about how it's really bad to smoke when pregnant and very irresponsible, and then find out that kids mother smoked all through her pregnancies. So what have you done? bad mouthed the kids mother, and weakened your relationship with kid for speaking out against their family. it was always a really difficult position to be in!


will be watching this case with interest!

tum

I hope both the children get proper care from now on. And that the community - who didn't help before - reaches out now.
Maybe they can offer some real support for the whole family. To me
the one really at fault are the parents, although they maybe came
from a poor background, they are ADULTS now and are supposed
to know what they are doing.

To me a 12 year old cannot be held responsible for this and for her actions after knowing she was pregnant. Denial is one of the words that come to me regarding her behaviour. Lots of children (and adult) think this way, if I don't talk about it or deny it, it doesn't exist.

Well this is only my opinion, but my heart goes out to them.

Ozzidoc

Agree. Unlike that the smoking has caused it. Unlikely that the child's age has affected it....kids have been having babies for years, worldwide and this is not a common "side effect" of birth to a very young mother. It's possible that the child's knowledge/maturity has affected the bairn, in terms of POSSIBLY not receiving a nutritious diet throughout pregnancy, especially the early stages.

It could easily be a spontaneous developmental problem - unfortunately they are WAAAAYYYYY more common that many of us realise. (Any midwives out there who'd like to comment?)


Friends' newborn is in hospital with a "lung problem" - will be in until it is at least 3 months old. Parents - very educated, baby planned, monitored etc. Not a thing was suspected by anyone til baby appeared.....with a diaphragmatic hernia.

I feel really sorry for the teen. This is going to make it extremely difficult for her to bond with the baby. On a more positive note, she may actually be able to stay in school a bit longer? Hmmm then again it is nearly the summer hols......


Just my 0.02 euro