Australia has 'third world population growth'
#16
Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Sure, but would the really help the population growth situation? Is there really a high demand for commuting between the 2 places? If there is high demand is a car or bus service just as quick?
What about Bendigo or Ballarat into Melbourne? I notice it takes an hour and a half from Ballarat to Melbourne in a car. 120 km's. A 150km/h train with a few stops would bring that down to 45 mins. Easy commute.
What about Bendigo or Ballarat into Melbourne? I notice it takes an hour and a half from Ballarat to Melbourne in a car. 120 km's. A 150km/h train with a few stops would bring that down to 45 mins. Easy commute.
I assumed he meant Bendigo Melbourne and Ballarat Melbourne, rather than Bendigo Ballarat?
S
#18
Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
One thing people would have to get used to is higher fares to support the improved infrastructure. Not sure that would happen in a hurry given the way everyone expects summut for nought these days. A season ticket between Bendigo or Ballarat into Melb works out at $70 a week - less than a quarter of what it'd cost for that distance in the UK
#19
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Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Couldn't agree more. And even 1.5 hours is optimistic for anything approaching peak hours.
One thing people would have to get used to is higher fares to support the improved infrastructure. Not sure that would happen in a hurry given the way everyone expects summut for nought these days. A season ticket between Bendigo or Ballarat into Melb works out at $70 a week - less than a quarter of what it'd cost for that distance in the UK
One thing people would have to get used to is higher fares to support the improved infrastructure. Not sure that would happen in a hurry given the way everyone expects summut for nought these days. A season ticket between Bendigo or Ballarat into Melb works out at $70 a week - less than a quarter of what it'd cost for that distance in the UK
#20
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Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Here is a good one.
15 years ago:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 43 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (varies depending on stopping pattern, but let's take the Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 22 min
Today:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 51 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 35 min
And they call it the "Flyer"
15 years ago:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 43 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (varies depending on stopping pattern, but let's take the Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 22 min
Today:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 51 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 35 min
And they call it the "Flyer"
#21
Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Here is a good one.
15 years ago:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 43 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (varies depending on stopping pattern, but let's take the Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 22 min
Today:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 51 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 35 min
And they call it the "Flyer"
15 years ago:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 43 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (varies depending on stopping pattern, but let's take the Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 22 min
Today:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 51 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 35 min
And they call it the "Flyer"
That's progress, right there...
S
#22
Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Here is a good one.
15 years ago:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 43 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (varies depending on stopping pattern, but let's take the Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 22 min
Today:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 51 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 35 min
And they call it the "Flyer"
15 years ago:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 43 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (varies depending on stopping pattern, but let's take the Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 22 min
Today:
Hornsby to Central via North Shore = 51 min
Sydney Terminal to Newcastle (Newcastle Flyer) : 2 hrs 35 min
And they call it the "Flyer"
Though if they did do anything about it, they would no doubt find the hardest, longest and least cost effective method of doing it...
S
#23
Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Oh, BTW, the cost and revenue opportunity structures between medium speed and high speed rail don't scale proportionately (shouldn't really think they did).
For instance if the journey only takes half the time, then that's half the manpower costs and potentially twice the utilisation of the train (and thus revenue).
Building a viaduct for high speed is not more expensive than medium speed.
As such, if you crunch the numbers, you often find that a speed between 250 and 300kmh offer the best balance for a new line. If you upgrading then aiming at 220kmh is attractive on a cost basis.
Obviously it depends on precise circumstances, and slow speeds in cities hurts, but with, say, Ballarat to Melbourne (114km) a 220kmh service most of the way would yield a journey time not much over 30 mins. For Melbourne to Sydney (~1000km) it would turn a 12 hour all day journey into a 4.5h afternoon one (and thus potentially allow it to do two such trips in place of one, doubling revenue).
For instance if the journey only takes half the time, then that's half the manpower costs and potentially twice the utilisation of the train (and thus revenue).
Building a viaduct for high speed is not more expensive than medium speed.
As such, if you crunch the numbers, you often find that a speed between 250 and 300kmh offer the best balance for a new line. If you upgrading then aiming at 220kmh is attractive on a cost basis.
Obviously it depends on precise circumstances, and slow speeds in cities hurts, but with, say, Ballarat to Melbourne (114km) a 220kmh service most of the way would yield a journey time not much over 30 mins. For Melbourne to Sydney (~1000km) it would turn a 12 hour all day journey into a 4.5h afternoon one (and thus potentially allow it to do two such trips in place of one, doubling revenue).
#24
Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
I've been banging on about this for years. A medium/high speed train between Newcastle/Sydney and Wollongong/Sydney would turn those towns into commuter towns, and take the pressure off of the Sydney basin, while also opening up affordable housing for people working in Sydney. It's an absolute no brainer in my opinion.
As you say, it doesn't need to be 200 mph bullet trains, but making it a 30-45 minute commute to Central or Town Hall would be exactly what is needed.
The current Newcastle train is frankly as embarrassing as Carr. I believe there are figures that demonstrate that it was actually quicker when the trains were steam.
S
As you say, it doesn't need to be 200 mph bullet trains, but making it a 30-45 minute commute to Central or Town Hall would be exactly what is needed.
The current Newcastle train is frankly as embarrassing as Carr. I believe there are figures that demonstrate that it was actually quicker when the trains were steam.
S
Japan's system is insanely good but they have 130m people in a few small islands and setting it up has basically bankrupted them. Nearly everywhere that HSR operates it is heavily subsidised and tickets are usually expensive
Something between HSR and what we have now is a somewhat more realistic option
#25
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Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Sounds great.
I can safely assume you'd all be willing to pay more tax to see it happen? I would.
I can safely assume you'd all be willing to pay more tax to see it happen? I would.
#26
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Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Unfortunately because of the poor legacy left by previous Labor governments in NSW, namely Bob Carr as we mentioned earlier, they are fixing Sydney now, which in essence needs to be the short term priority. Its great. Building automation is creating a tonne of jobs. Once built these driverless trains and new lines will need tonnes of maintenance - more jobs.
Down the line they will have to expand out to the regional cities. First things first.
#27
Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Yes, using taxes to pay for infrastructure is what they are intended for. So slash welfare and cull civil servant numbers and spend the money on tax cuts and rail instead
#28
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Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
I'll assume that because you are too lazy to use the quote system (or have an agenda) you are referring to me
Yes, using taxes to pay for infrastructure is what they are intended for. So slash welfare and cull civil servant numbers and spend the money on tax cuts and rail instead
Yes, using taxes to pay for infrastructure is what they are intended for. So slash welfare and cull civil servant numbers and spend the money on tax cuts and rail instead
Good to hear though.
#29
Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Personally I'm worried that people maybe underestimating the effect driverless vehicles will have on public and private transport in the future.... within 30 years by the looks.
Maybe we should concentrate on roads after all. I cant believe that I'm saying this.... Why not build roads with a very safe superfast lane/s seeing as vehicles are supposedly going to be far safer, more capable, potentially faster and less prone to accidents in the future ?
Maybe we should concentrate on roads after all. I cant believe that I'm saying this.... Why not build roads with a very safe superfast lane/s seeing as vehicles are supposedly going to be far safer, more capable, potentially faster and less prone to accidents in the future ?
Last edited by ozzieeagle; Feb 18th 2016 at 5:47 am.
#30
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Re: Australia has 'third world population growth'
Personally I'm worried that people maybe underestimating the effect driverless vehicles will have on public and private transport in the future.... within 30 years by the looks.
Maybe we should concentrate on roads after all. I cant believe that I'm saying this.... Why not build roads with a very safe superfast lane/s seeing as vehicles are supposedly going to be far safer, more capable, potentially faster and less prone to accidents in the future ?
Maybe we should concentrate on roads after all. I cant believe that I'm saying this.... Why not build roads with a very safe superfast lane/s seeing as vehicles are supposedly going to be far safer, more capable, potentially faster and less prone to accidents in the future ?