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Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Old Apr 19th 2009, 8:52 pm
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

There can be a case proven in common law, not statute law in most countries that if your actions are deemed to be murderous by reasonable person/persons/peers that you can be tried for murder.
It's all to do with what is reasonable in the circumstances.
Generally manslaughter is used for cases where a reasonable person would find that the defendants actions could not normally lead to the death of an individual/s. e.g. death by dangerous driving. Still carries a reasonable prison sentence but is not a murderous act.
Also you don't need to have an obvious murderous intent but if your actions will obviously end in such an act happening then you can be tried.
The only thing is by the time all the shrinks get their hands on the case it'll end up tied up in the court system for years, then before the defendant is sentenced there'll be further medical reports and they'll take 6 months then at the sentencing hearing the judges hands will be soo tied he'll end up giving the defendant 3yrs in a hospital somewhere, where he can talk out his problems.
I don't know if any of you have ever sat in a court room for a day and listened to the countless number of people going through who wouldn't have ended up in the dock if it wasn't for their childhood or they're unemployed or peer pressure or 'I was drunk'. And they get their sad story listened to, put forward by a solicitor being paid for by the state to get that person off.

SORRY I THINK I'LL HAVE TO START MY CAPITAL PUNISHMENT THREAD NOW.
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Old Apr 19th 2009, 10:39 pm
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Where is Renth?
HKA
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 12:10 am
  #18  
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by hollykimalan View Post
Where is Renth?
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Fighting crocodiles.

There has always been the odd one or two arsonists who turn to firefighting for the very basic reason that they have a massive fascination with fire so where is the best place to find it? It's a worldwide thing and always will be. No different from someone with a fascination for computers becoming an IT worker apart from the fact that a fascination of computers hasn't killed anyone as far as I'm aware. (Not making light of it but just making a point).

Whilst it's not right I don't really understand why an arsonist who turns out to be a firefighter is any worse than Billy down the road setting fire to something? Firies are still humans and humans are not perfect.
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 1:32 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by slipshot View Post
Would it not be manslaughter - cannot be murder as their intention was not to kill but to start a fire - a very different point?
If a death occurs during the commission of another indictable offence is it not then murder? If you were committing an armed robbery and "accidentally" shot and killed someone would you not be tried for murder?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

Legal analysis of murder
Common law murder is defined as the:

unlawful
killing
of another human being
with a state of mind known as "malice aforethought".[citation needed]
The first three elements are relatively straightforward; however, the concept of "malice aforethought" is a complex one that does not necessarily mean premeditation. The following states of mind are recognized as constituting the various forms of "malice aforethought":

Intent to kill,
Intent to inflict grievous bodily harm short of death,
Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"), or
Intent to commit a dangerous felony (the "felony-murder" doctrine).
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 2:40 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by moneypen20 View Post
Fighting crocodiles.

There has always been the odd one or two arsonists who turn to firefighting for the very basic reason that they have a massive fascination with fire so where is the best place to find it? It's a worldwide thing and always will be. No different from someone with a fascination for computers becoming an IT worker apart from the fact that a fascination of computers hasn't killed anyone as far as I'm aware. (Not making light of it but just making a point).

Whilst it's not right I don't really understand why an arsonist who turns out to be a firefighter is any worse than Billy down the road setting fire to something? Firies are still humans and humans are not perfect.
My friends doctor has been discovered to be a paedo, - there are kiddy fiddlers all over the world and I take your point about humans not being perfect, but when someone is given a position of a certain responsibility and that person happens to have a rather serious issue connected with the position that they have been given, one could argue that they are purposely taking that position to abuse it.

An arsonist firefighter has purposely applied for his position to feed his habit in some way, IMO, he has abused it instantly which makes him worse than anyone else.
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 2:54 am
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by Professional Princess View Post
My friends doctor has been discovered to be a paedo, - there are kiddy fiddlers all over the world and I take your point about humans not being perfect, but when someone is given a position of a certain responsibility and that person happens to have a rather serious issue connected with the position that they have been given, one could argue that they are purposely taking that position to abuse it.

An arsonist firefighter has purposely applied for his position to feed his habit in some way, IMO, he has abused it instantly which makes him worse than anyone else.
Playing devils advocate here, what if they didn't know they had pyromania, joined the Fire Brigade because it looked like an interesting job and then over time, maybe a quiet period work wise thought 'hey, I'll just start a small one, just so we get a job out of it'. From my knowledge (hubby was a firefighter for 20 years) that is far more the scenario that occurs than the one or two who join up for the 'high' of being close to fire on a regular basis. It's rarely straightforward as to a) why they join up and b) why they set fires.
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 3:15 am
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by moneypen20 View Post
Playing devils advocate here, what if they didn't know they had pyromania, joined the Fire Brigade because it looked like an interesting job and then over time, maybe a quiet period work wise thought 'hey, I'll just start a small one, just so we get a job out of it'. From my knowledge (hubby was a firefighter for 20 years) that is far more the scenario that occurs than the one or two who join up for the 'high' of being close to fire on a regular basis. It's rarely straightforward as to a) why they join up and b) why they set fires.
Its true, there is no way of knowing, just like with anyone in a position of responsibility.

My mates doctor - they didnt know and people didnt believe it at all. They found horrific images on his computer and there was no way of knowing.

I guess these people are very good at hiding these things. Perhaps they develop this problem after joining up or some have when they do.

We will never know.
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 3:40 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by moneypen20 View Post
Playing devils advocate here, what if they didn't know they had pyromania, joined the Fire Brigade because it looked like an interesting job and then over time, maybe a quiet period work wise thought 'hey, I'll just start a small one, just so we get a job out of it'. From my knowledge (hubby was a firefighter for 20 years) that is far more the scenario that occurs than the one or two who join up for the 'high' of being close to fire on a regular basis. It's rarely straightforward as to a) why they join up and b) why they set fires.
Sounds quite a feasible argument. The "thrill" of being involved in a fire-fight, which encourages them to want to be involved in another? Who knows, I'm no psychologist, but it certainly sounds pretty realistic.
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 4:52 am
  #24  
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by moneypen20 View Post
Playing devils advocate here, what if they didn't know they had pyromania, joined the Fire Brigade because it looked like an interesting job and then over time, maybe a quiet period work wise thought 'hey, I'll just start a small one, just so we get a job out of it'. From my knowledge (hubby was a firefighter for 20 years) that is far more the scenario that occurs than the one or two who join up for the 'high' of being close to fire on a regular basis. It's rarely straightforward as to a) why they join up and b) why they set fires.




I am no expert, but I have often thought about the boredom factor. These people have been fully trained to fight fires and then they don't get called out for months on end. Maybe the chance to prove their existence by lighting the odd fire might come into it.

I would be interested to hear the opinion of the firefighters on the site.

John
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 4:56 am
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Wasn't this topic covered in the movie "Backdraft"??????
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 1:36 pm
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by Professional Princess View Post
Im sure if my memory serves me correctly, it was suggested on one of the threads on here that voluntary fire fighters have been caught doing this before and there were quite a few people who were angry and disputing this and I must admit, the thought disturbed me as well.
I raised the possibility of it being a volunteer firie.

It happens that some (not to be confused with the word 'all') people in a position of trust do the wrong thing by those trusting.

Now what was the name of that 1 (not to be confused with the word 'all') QLD police commissioner who spent time in a (possibly some) QLD correction institution/s?


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Old Apr 20th 2009, 2:09 pm
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by jond View Post
I am no expert, but I have often thought about the boredom factor. These people have been fully trained to fight fires and then they don't get called out for months on end. Maybe the chance to prove their existence by lighting the odd fire might come into it.

I would be interested to hear the opinion of the firefighters on the site.

John
In my opinion, I think the SES spend windy days pushing trees over onto people's drives
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 2:14 pm
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Maybe it was the cops getting angry.

http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/bre...0418-aaoi.html

Maybe it's what you get when you mix schardenfreuder with a superiority complex?
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 2:15 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by MartinLuther View Post
In my opinion, I think the SES spend windy days pushing trees over onto people's drives
And they leave the taps on to cause floods so they can go out and use their boats occasionally I might mention that next time we have a group in for training..........Polly runs for cover
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Old Apr 20th 2009, 2:16 pm
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Default Re: Arsonist Suspect - Oh my god!

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
And they leave the taps on to cause floods so they can go out and use their boats occasionally I might mention that next time we have a group in for training..........Polly runs for cover
B'stards. The lot of them
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