Recruitment
Aug 27th 2009, 7:52 pm
#16
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39
Re: Recruitment
Icey, a word of advice. If you can't take criticism, don't ask people for advice on an online forum like this. You asked locals (I am a local) to advise you on the feasibility of your business idea. You did not ask people to tell you positive things to make you feel good. Judging from the number of comments you have made rebutting most things I said, you seem to know it all, so why did you bother to ask for advice?
Also, I have read quite a few comments that you have posted on this site. You, like many other foreign born commenters on this site, harbor negative views about Bajans and how Bajans do things. Before you can successfully train others to change their attitudes and behavior, you need to get your own attitude and behavior in check. If you approach Bajans with that “I am from abroad and I need to teach you how to act” attitude, you won’t like the response you get from some of us. Bajans have grown really tired of foreigners inviting themselves into Barbados and then complaining about the way we and things are.
For centuries, Bajans welcomed people from around the world with open arms, but because the immigration situation was allowed to get out of control for over a decade under the previous administration, and because of commitments CARICOM leaders have made to facilitate free movement of CARICOM nationals throughout the CARICOM states, many Bajans think that for our own survival, we must start closing the gate. To people on the other side of the gate, this is a bad thing, but to us, it will be comforting to know we can preserve some of what little is left of our country for ourselves and our descendants.
Also, I have read quite a few comments that you have posted on this site. You, like many other foreign born commenters on this site, harbor negative views about Bajans and how Bajans do things. Before you can successfully train others to change their attitudes and behavior, you need to get your own attitude and behavior in check. If you approach Bajans with that “I am from abroad and I need to teach you how to act” attitude, you won’t like the response you get from some of us. Bajans have grown really tired of foreigners inviting themselves into Barbados and then complaining about the way we and things are.
For centuries, Bajans welcomed people from around the world with open arms, but because the immigration situation was allowed to get out of control for over a decade under the previous administration, and because of commitments CARICOM leaders have made to facilitate free movement of CARICOM nationals throughout the CARICOM states, many Bajans think that for our own survival, we must start closing the gate. To people on the other side of the gate, this is a bad thing, but to us, it will be comforting to know we can preserve some of what little is left of our country for ourselves and our descendants.
And just for your information the following comment makes me feel you would be better placed on a Bajan national front forum instead on an expat one
“For centuries, Bajans welcomed people from around the world with open arms, but because the immigration situation was allowed to get out of control for over a decade under the previous administration, and because of commitments CARICOM leaders have made to facilitate free movement of CARICOM nationals throughout the CARICOM states, many Bajans think that for our own survival, we must start closing the gate”
I find it very disrespectful that without knowing the full history of the posters on this site you are suggesting that some of us are not decedents of Barbados or have partners or children who are Bajan. In any case people have to jump through a dozen hoops just to get a work permit, not to have a free pass to leech on to what ever benefit system that exists over there.
What a horrid and bitter thing for you to say, to switch the friendly nature of a thread to something more sinister as whether or not I have the right to abode.
Aug 27th 2009, 8:08 pm
#17
MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Barbados
Posts: 906
Re: Recruitment
ohh i enjoy a good debate
I must admit looking back when I first came to Barbados I was full of ideas on how to improve things and honestly Jane's view on foreigners coming here and telling us how to do things better was how I approached things although it was with good intentions.
Having lived in Barbados now I have had to realise that Barbados will only change when it is ready not when it is told to. I also did a lot of research into Customer Care and was involved with the initial planning of the NICE programme. I learnt that soo much has already been tried by Government, major Employers including Supercentre and BS&T but there is a lot of cultural and historical reasons behind why bajan employees do not buy into customer service. A lot is to do with pay, others are to do with the historical working realtionships as "workers" (local black bajans) with many of the major employers (white bajans).
I spoke to senior members of these companies who basically stated they have given up trying to change employees minds and are waiting for the new breed of UWI grads and other youngsters who have been exposed to the concept from young.
Icey I can honestly say that most niche ideas have already been tried or conceived within Barbados and as suggested by Sunnie I think?? there are already other companies doing what you suggest also there are very few openings for foreigners in the present climate.
I do feel that "closing the gate" is going to cut of key streams of income to the island - I have heard vistors are being told at the airport that they are coming too often to the island!!!! - these people bring their pensions, their savings etc and spend it here - how can it be not good for them to come often.
Im not a local so I appreciate the input of someone local to this forum - just hope this can be done without getting too personal.
I must admit looking back when I first came to Barbados I was full of ideas on how to improve things and honestly Jane's view on foreigners coming here and telling us how to do things better was how I approached things although it was with good intentions.
Having lived in Barbados now I have had to realise that Barbados will only change when it is ready not when it is told to. I also did a lot of research into Customer Care and was involved with the initial planning of the NICE programme. I learnt that soo much has already been tried by Government, major Employers including Supercentre and BS&T but there is a lot of cultural and historical reasons behind why bajan employees do not buy into customer service. A lot is to do with pay, others are to do with the historical working realtionships as "workers" (local black bajans) with many of the major employers (white bajans).
I spoke to senior members of these companies who basically stated they have given up trying to change employees minds and are waiting for the new breed of UWI grads and other youngsters who have been exposed to the concept from young.
Icey I can honestly say that most niche ideas have already been tried or conceived within Barbados and as suggested by Sunnie I think?? there are already other companies doing what you suggest also there are very few openings for foreigners in the present climate.
I do feel that "closing the gate" is going to cut of key streams of income to the island - I have heard vistors are being told at the airport that they are coming too often to the island!!!! - these people bring their pensions, their savings etc and spend it here - how can it be not good for them to come often.
Im not a local so I appreciate the input of someone local to this forum - just hope this can be done without getting too personal.
Aug 27th 2009, 10:21 pm
#18
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96
Re: Recruitment
really interesting thread this one.
Icey, the large accounting firms do recruiting for companies, they don't advertise with that, you will see their names under adds in the papers. There are a few employment agencies on the island, check the yellow pages, a few in bridgetown, check OFFICE POWER online looks like something you mean.
Temping agencies like we know them in Europe don't really work in Barbados, the people here want security and don't believe in job-hopping, few people look for temporary work and it couldn't cater to foreigners because of the permit issue.
As far as the Customer Service issue is concerned, I find it extremely annoying at times, but there are many places in the world where this is exactly the same. I also know many places in Barbados where there is lovely and friendly staff, and excellent service.
Aren't we forgetting that many people love Barbados because it is a relaxed and friendly place, and then turn around and want to turn it into the place where we are fleeying from.
I have come with many 'foreign' ideas over the years, some worked, some didn't, I have received comment about "foreigners knowing all best", it is okay to have the ideas but very important to see what works here, Barbados is a small place and for that reason many things that work well abroad, just don't catch on over here, very important to explore the market.
And the Bajans don't like to be told how to do things by foreigners, eventhough they depend on their dollars, and I can't really blame them.
With all this I am not saying their is no room for improvement, just not to sure how 'consulting agencies' catch on here, specially with foreign background. I also remember to have read about the SBA doing something with CS.
Last thing I would like to mention which in my experience a lot of people do not seem to realise. Many complaints about service are about the lower income group, alot of these people do not own cars, get up at five in the morning to cook and wash and do their housework before they go to work, then catch one or two busses to get to work. To work for a wage that barely pays their bills. I am not certain if I would be 100% motivated in a situation like that, and I doubt if any training could make a difference there.
Icey, I don't want to discourage you, but I think I will not be easy to make a start in this line of business, have to agree with some of the things DIPIDY said, the changes will have to come from within the local population.
Don't be discouraged though, it's good to have people coming with fresh ideas and views, and there are always opportunities or ways to make things work.
Icey, the large accounting firms do recruiting for companies, they don't advertise with that, you will see their names under adds in the papers. There are a few employment agencies on the island, check the yellow pages, a few in bridgetown, check OFFICE POWER online looks like something you mean.
Temping agencies like we know them in Europe don't really work in Barbados, the people here want security and don't believe in job-hopping, few people look for temporary work and it couldn't cater to foreigners because of the permit issue.
As far as the Customer Service issue is concerned, I find it extremely annoying at times, but there are many places in the world where this is exactly the same. I also know many places in Barbados where there is lovely and friendly staff, and excellent service.
Aren't we forgetting that many people love Barbados because it is a relaxed and friendly place, and then turn around and want to turn it into the place where we are fleeying from.
I have come with many 'foreign' ideas over the years, some worked, some didn't, I have received comment about "foreigners knowing all best", it is okay to have the ideas but very important to see what works here, Barbados is a small place and for that reason many things that work well abroad, just don't catch on over here, very important to explore the market.
And the Bajans don't like to be told how to do things by foreigners, eventhough they depend on their dollars, and I can't really blame them.
With all this I am not saying their is no room for improvement, just not to sure how 'consulting agencies' catch on here, specially with foreign background. I also remember to have read about the SBA doing something with CS.
Last thing I would like to mention which in my experience a lot of people do not seem to realise. Many complaints about service are about the lower income group, alot of these people do not own cars, get up at five in the morning to cook and wash and do their housework before they go to work, then catch one or two busses to get to work. To work for a wage that barely pays their bills. I am not certain if I would be 100% motivated in a situation like that, and I doubt if any training could make a difference there.
Icey, I don't want to discourage you, but I think I will not be easy to make a start in this line of business, have to agree with some of the things DIPIDY said, the changes will have to come from within the local population.
Don't be discouraged though, it's good to have people coming with fresh ideas and views, and there are always opportunities or ways to make things work.
Aug 28th 2009, 9:54 am
#19
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39
Re: Recruitment
Icey, it was not my intention to switch the friendly nature of the thread to something sinister, as you have suggested. I think I have generated a lively discussion, which is highly unusual on this site. Online forums are supposed to be like this, especially if you ask people for their opinions and advice. If people tell you just what they think you want to hear and not what they know from experience is reality, their comments won’t be helpful to you. I know my people and my country and I don’t think the things you have proposed will work in Barbados. If this were the 1980s I would have said go for it. But in 2009, many people have been there and done that to no avail. Don’t let me stop you though. If you feel strongly that your idea will work, go for it and prove me and others wrong.
I think if you sit down and think and be honest with yourself, you will realize that the Brits are not great models of good behavior and many could use customer service training.
P.S. I use American, not British English, so if you see some words that are not spelled the way you are accustomed to seeing them spelled, it is not that I can’t spell. I just don’t spell the British way.
I think if you sit down and think and be honest with yourself, you will realize that the Brits are not great models of good behavior and many could use customer service training.
P.S. I use American, not British English, so if you see some words that are not spelled the way you are accustomed to seeing them spelled, it is not that I can’t spell. I just don’t spell the British way.
Aug 28th 2009, 10:00 am
#20
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39
Re: Recruitment
Sunniebgi, I lived in three states in the United States, your homeland. I know that many American companies outsource their customer service centers to India and other countries. The main reason is lower cost, but many American business people have said that they think the foreign customer service reps have better customer service and English skills than American workers. I myself have had many bad customer service experiences in the U.S. You know that many of your countrymen need customer service training right along with Bajans, so don't be so harsh on Bajans.
it wasn't strictly an attack on Bajans more me looking for a gap in the market. if i had plans to stay in the UK the i wouldn't need to worry as i am training to be barrister. However, I am putting my dreams on hold to see if i can find another succesful wy of surviving in barbados as some oe has already told me that Barbados doesn't need any more lawyers? is this true jane?
Aug 29th 2009, 5:47 pm
#21
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15
Re: Recruitment
Jane,
I have read with interest your last post and was wondering if you could help me. I know you have said that education and healthcare is in demand at the moment in Barbados. In terms of education, is there scope for special needs with language and communication as a specialty or is this already being fully covered in Barbados?
I have read with interest your last post and was wondering if you could help me. I know you have said that education and healthcare is in demand at the moment in Barbados. In terms of education, is there scope for special needs with language and communication as a specialty or is this already being fully covered in Barbados?
Aug 29th 2009, 7:48 pm
#22
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Re: Recruitment
Hi,
This forum was indeed an interesting one. I am a Barbadian living in the USA, I relocated a couple of years back and was just amazed at the rudeness, terrible customer service, and most of all the treatment I got as a returning national. I also thought about putting together an agency that would focus on customer service.
I read Janes's comments, a bit harsh but most of it is true. Nevertheless they truly is a demand for an improvement in customer service. I too have been shopping several times, and due to the nasty attitudes of most of the workers there, decided to wait until I return to the USA to shop. Why spend my money places where I was treated terribly?
I also was working there and had to interract with many government agencies, like the courts, the registry and other areas of Government and got an inside scope at how their work and viewed their jobs, and I can tell you it's terrible.
(Re: Bajans dont like foreigners to tell them what to do?) Somebody needs to inform Bajans that they stand to benefit more from changing their attitude and respect for others. Immigration happens everywhere, my country is beautiful and a lovely place to be, but so is other places............
I wanted to return home for such a long time and was appalled at the attitudes of the people. I think attempting to tackle customer service by opening an agency that would address these issues would be great.
I must say I will return there again, but with a different mindset, having digested that there are somethings that wont change there anytime soon, but I can change my response or how I choose to handle them.
If we all put our heads together maybe we can come up with something.
Best regards............J
This forum was indeed an interesting one. I am a Barbadian living in the USA, I relocated a couple of years back and was just amazed at the rudeness, terrible customer service, and most of all the treatment I got as a returning national. I also thought about putting together an agency that would focus on customer service.
I read Janes's comments, a bit harsh but most of it is true. Nevertheless they truly is a demand for an improvement in customer service. I too have been shopping several times, and due to the nasty attitudes of most of the workers there, decided to wait until I return to the USA to shop. Why spend my money places where I was treated terribly?
I also was working there and had to interract with many government agencies, like the courts, the registry and other areas of Government and got an inside scope at how their work and viewed their jobs, and I can tell you it's terrible.
(Re: Bajans dont like foreigners to tell them what to do?) Somebody needs to inform Bajans that they stand to benefit more from changing their attitude and respect for others. Immigration happens everywhere, my country is beautiful and a lovely place to be, but so is other places............
I wanted to return home for such a long time and was appalled at the attitudes of the people. I think attempting to tackle customer service by opening an agency that would address these issues would be great.
I must say I will return there again, but with a different mindset, having digested that there are somethings that wont change there anytime soon, but I can change my response or how I choose to handle them.
If we all put our heads together maybe we can come up with something.
Best regards............J
Aug 30th 2009, 3:06 am
#23
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 184
Re: Recruitment
I just wanted to make a comment about the 'closing the gate' issue and something Icey mentioned (much earlier) about many of the people on this board being Bajan descendents etc.
I constantly see comments like that on this board, as if the only people who should be allowed to move to Barbados are those with some kind of blood claim.
I don't have a blood claim, but I've invested in several existing businesses on this island (none of which are making me money yet, but they provide numerous jobs for locals - and no job for me, as I don't work anymore), I came here with sufficient wealth to retire and I spend all my money in local restaurants, bars, stores. I bought expensive cars here, with huge amounts of duty going to the government. I pay tax on my income here, even though the money is earned abroad. I've bought two brand new homes on the island, supporting developers who provide more jobs here.
My point is, can we move away from this rude idea that only blood descendants have a legitimate claim to moving here? You may have noticed the global economic crisis, frankly countries like Barbados should be biting the arm off people like me who want to invest their wealth in their gorgeous island. Fortunately, they do - as they gave me residency. I hope that the rest of us can adopt the same attitude.
And no, I don't mean it should be a free-for-all, I don't believe immigration should be any more open than it is. I just find it upsetting that there are repeated references on this forum to people who don't have a descendcy claim to be here somehow being less entitled or worthy of immigration. The important thing should be the contribution I make - and frankly, I'm sure that (at least financially) mine is much greater than MANY people with so-called 'better' claims.
I constantly see comments like that on this board, as if the only people who should be allowed to move to Barbados are those with some kind of blood claim.
I don't have a blood claim, but I've invested in several existing businesses on this island (none of which are making me money yet, but they provide numerous jobs for locals - and no job for me, as I don't work anymore), I came here with sufficient wealth to retire and I spend all my money in local restaurants, bars, stores. I bought expensive cars here, with huge amounts of duty going to the government. I pay tax on my income here, even though the money is earned abroad. I've bought two brand new homes on the island, supporting developers who provide more jobs here.
My point is, can we move away from this rude idea that only blood descendants have a legitimate claim to moving here? You may have noticed the global economic crisis, frankly countries like Barbados should be biting the arm off people like me who want to invest their wealth in their gorgeous island. Fortunately, they do - as they gave me residency. I hope that the rest of us can adopt the same attitude.
And no, I don't mean it should be a free-for-all, I don't believe immigration should be any more open than it is. I just find it upsetting that there are repeated references on this forum to people who don't have a descendcy claim to be here somehow being less entitled or worthy of immigration. The important thing should be the contribution I make - and frankly, I'm sure that (at least financially) mine is much greater than MANY people with so-called 'better' claims.
Aug 31st 2009, 4:08 pm
#24
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39
Re: Recruitment
I just wanted to make a comment about the 'closing the gate' issue and something Icey mentioned (much earlier) about many of the people on this board being Bajan descendents etc.
I constantly see comments like that on this board, as if the only people who should be allowed to move to Barbados are those with some kind of blood claim.
I don't have a blood claim, but I've invested in several existing businesses on this island (none of which are making me money yet, but they provide numerous jobs for locals - and no job for me, as I don't work anymore), I came here with sufficient wealth to retire and I spend all my money in local restaurants, bars, stores. I bought expensive cars here, with huge amounts of duty going to the government. I pay tax on my income here, even though the money is earned abroad. I've bought two brand new homes on the island, supporting developers who provide more jobs here.
My point is, can we move away from this rude idea that only blood descendants have a legitimate claim to moving here? You may have noticed the global economic crisis, frankly countries like Barbados should be biting the arm off people like me who want to invest their wealth in their gorgeous island. Fortunately, they do - as they gave me residency. I hope that the rest of us can adopt the same attitude.
And no, I don't mean it should be a free-for-all, I don't believe immigration should be any more open than it is. I just find it upsetting that there are repeated references on this forum to people who don't have a descendcy claim to be here somehow being less entitled or worthy of immigration. The important thing should be the contribution I make - and frankly, I'm sure that (at least financially) mine is much greater than MANY people with so-called 'better' claims.
I constantly see comments like that on this board, as if the only people who should be allowed to move to Barbados are those with some kind of blood claim.
I don't have a blood claim, but I've invested in several existing businesses on this island (none of which are making me money yet, but they provide numerous jobs for locals - and no job for me, as I don't work anymore), I came here with sufficient wealth to retire and I spend all my money in local restaurants, bars, stores. I bought expensive cars here, with huge amounts of duty going to the government. I pay tax on my income here, even though the money is earned abroad. I've bought two brand new homes on the island, supporting developers who provide more jobs here.
My point is, can we move away from this rude idea that only blood descendants have a legitimate claim to moving here? You may have noticed the global economic crisis, frankly countries like Barbados should be biting the arm off people like me who want to invest their wealth in their gorgeous island. Fortunately, they do - as they gave me residency. I hope that the rest of us can adopt the same attitude.
And no, I don't mean it should be a free-for-all, I don't believe immigration should be any more open than it is. I just find it upsetting that there are repeated references on this forum to people who don't have a descendcy claim to be here somehow being less entitled or worthy of immigration. The important thing should be the contribution I make - and frankly, I'm sure that (at least financially) mine is much greater than MANY people with so-called 'better' claims.
i did also say partners and parents and my list was not exhaustive
Sep 2nd 2009, 4:58 pm
#25
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 31
Re: Recruitment
Ikon,
May I shake your HAND!!!
I have been away from the site for a couple of days (only) due to our last Bank Holiday weekend in London, & may I say it was a fine one- couldn't ask for better weather.
I would just like to say how heartbroken & upset I was reading some of the VERY negative comments made- & it was not even directed to me!!!
hmmm
I understand where some of you are coming from- but without foreign investments where would Barbados or most of the world be! By attacking thoughs who wish a better life, willing to work HARD & contribute is by far the right way, it's mean & extremely backward. I am appalled by people who think in this FAR RIGHT attitude!
My parents came to England from Barbados back in the 50's when invited by the British government as many of their fellow country men after the war felt they didn't want to work any menial type jobs- you know like build their country up...
They managed to bring all their children here & had three more later in England, myself being one. I don't even want to imagine what they had to go through, apart from the awful cold, but the racism, well I can't even comprehend...
London, England the UK has once again "turned upside down" as I call it by focusing their HATE, distain on others from Eastern Europe etc who by the way where again invited by the British government as certain jobs could not be filled by their country men. Now due to the ecomomic recession the English want any jobs going!
My point is this country England is heading for a very serious fall-out & things will get a lot worse before they surely get better.
I LOVE Barbados, not only because my parents are from this beautiful, enchanting Island; But the first time I came here some 19+ years ago I finally felt at home on the tarmac at "Grantley Adams" airport, I can't discribe my feelings- but I genuinely felt a sence of belonging & at HOME!!
With the grace & power of God anything one wants will be achieved & I for one plan to move to Barbados!
But give me "BARBADOS", not a shabby knock off England with so much negativity & racism in the sunshine!!
Icey & ALL if this is your dream let it be your destiny!
Enough said
May I shake your HAND!!!
I have been away from the site for a couple of days (only) due to our last Bank Holiday weekend in London, & may I say it was a fine one- couldn't ask for better weather.
I would just like to say how heartbroken & upset I was reading some of the VERY negative comments made- & it was not even directed to me!!!
hmmmI understand where some of you are coming from- but without foreign investments where would Barbados or most of the world be! By attacking thoughs who wish a better life, willing to work HARD & contribute is by far the right way, it's mean & extremely backward. I am appalled by people who think in this FAR RIGHT attitude!
My parents came to England from Barbados back in the 50's when invited by the British government as many of their fellow country men after the war felt they didn't want to work any menial type jobs- you know like build their country up...
They managed to bring all their children here & had three more later in England, myself being one. I don't even want to imagine what they had to go through, apart from the awful cold, but the racism, well I can't even comprehend...
London, England the UK has once again "turned upside down" as I call it by focusing their HATE, distain on others from Eastern Europe etc who by the way where again invited by the British government as certain jobs could not be filled by their country men. Now due to the ecomomic recession the English want any jobs going!
My point is this country England is heading for a very serious fall-out & things will get a lot worse before they surely get better.
I LOVE Barbados, not only because my parents are from this beautiful, enchanting Island; But the first time I came here some 19+ years ago I finally felt at home on the tarmac at "Grantley Adams" airport, I can't discribe my feelings- but I genuinely felt a sence of belonging & at HOME!!
With the grace & power of God anything one wants will be achieved & I for one plan to move to Barbados!
But give me "BARBADOS", not a shabby knock off England with so much negativity & racism in the sunshine!!
Icey & ALL if this is your dream let it be your destiny!
Enough said
Sep 3rd 2009, 10:33 pm
#26
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 184
Re: Recruitment
Thanks hotchick21!
I think Barbados is so beautiful, and despite not having family from here, it's the place in the world I feel at "home", having been fortunate enough to spend a month or so here every year since birth. Being able to finally live here with my family, and for us to call it home now, is something I'm super-proud of! :-)
I think Barbados is so beautiful, and despite not having family from here, it's the place in the world I feel at "home", having been fortunate enough to spend a month or so here every year since birth. Being able to finally live here with my family, and for us to call it home now, is something I'm super-proud of! :-)
