Public beatings
 

I was shock to see that there are public beatings of children in Barbados schools,lots of people was outrage while most seems to agree,i think this is crazy and should be stop.

Re: Public beatings
 

Well they stopped corporal punishment in the UK and look what mess the kids are in now. If it works for them and helps stem the social problems of undisciplined children why is it bothereing you?

Re: Public beatings
 

I would have to guess, although I haven't read the law, that when it gets to that stage, there likely isn't any other recourse, short of sending them to jail. I'm sorry I didn't read the article but guess I should find it and read it. I don't necessarily agree and think there should be an alternate.. however.. having said that. I have to agree with pg on this one.. Children are children and while there are the rights of the child, it's taking it a little too far when disrespectful behavior becomes the norm (as it has in many places) and parent's can't even spank their child in public for fear of being put in jail.

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It is bothering me because not even the members of the terrorist group that blew up the world trade centre or bomb the London underground was in for a public flogging as a matter of fact if any of the athourities had hit any of those hardened criminals it would of come out to be toture or some kind of abuse,tell me where in history does inflicting pain (Lashes)on a person make them better do you watch super nanny does super nanny ever hit or advise parents to hit a child no way,so come on people that is a slave trader mentality to beat & abuse all it brings is hatred & revenge.

Re: Public beatings
 

I think the debate about parents being allowed to punish their own children is separate to corporal punishment in schools.

I would never discipline my child physically, and have never even been tempted to, but I wouldn't judge parents who do. It's not my place to judge how other parents bring up their children unless they're abusive.

When it comes to schools though - I simply can't comprehend the idea of a teacher thinking it's ok to touch my child, and I would certainly never send my child to a school that did operate such a policy! It's one of the few areas of Bajan culture that I would be openly critical about, and hope laws change on this subject in the near future.

Re: Public beatings
 

Personally I would have given them terrorist the beating of their life. Maybe if they had got this tough love as a child they would not have grown up to be the monsters who are capable of carrying out such attrocities.

There is a big difference between beating a child to stem the errors of their ways and abusing a child physically.

In the Uk they took the right of spanking away from schools, then from parents. When children are not disciplined as a child you are then creating problems for society. These kids have no fear of repurcussion for when they do wrong. Now they cause all sorts of mayhem, including killing each other.
Their sense of right from wrong has been so perverted that they cannot distinguish between the two.

Where are the goody two shoe social workers now ? They cried for the abolishment of corparal punishment and now they are the ones blaming the parents for childrens bad behaviour. They go as far to separate families, fine parents and threaten to put them in jail because of their unruly kids.

They have played right into the devils hands, because Satan has found a way to break up families using social workers as his tools.

Spare the rod spoil the child is as relevant today as it has ever been, we've seen where sparing the rod has led to.

I hope this has given you some food for thought.

PS My dad raised three sons successfully using this philosophy and I am raising sons of my own now, so maybe I know a bit about this subject

Re: Public beatings
 

It is so sad to see young boys killing each other and unfortunately it is too common in the UK as well as in the US.
The pendulum seems to have swung so far that children seem to have more rights than parents. I come across many parents who seem to be scared to say 'no' to their toddlers and give them whatever they want, whenever they want it. Toddlers learn that when they scream, throw tantrums and start punching they can get whatever they want.

When children are always right (even when badly behaved) and always get what they want they grow into adults expecting this to continue. When they bump into a another such adult - then the problems starts....

I think beating is wrong but discipline (physical as a very last resort and not excessive or in anger) is important as well as giving children praise to help them to grow into considerate, well-adjusted adults.

What a shame that when smacking was stopped - there wasn't any advice on how to effectively discipline children....
Now there are so many young lives being lost and so many of them have so much potential...

Re: Public beatings
 

I got hit with the ruller when I was a kid in school. It wasnt abuse and my parents were ok with it. I agree with it until this day and Im thankful that it kept me focused on school work. When a teacher smacked me accross the chest, keep in mind I was only 7 years old, my dad came down to the school and raised hell. There is a fine line and I agree with some form of punishment but we should not leave the door wide open because people are people and there are always a few that will push it towards abuse.

Kids are out of controll these days.

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My headmaster was my father ..... I lost count of the number of times I got the cane or the slipper! :D

Re: Public beatings
 

I think a lot of you are missing the point,i never said that you should not dicipline a child,what i disagree with is the public flogging of school children,and flogging at schools.I still go back to the Super Nanny point,she takes care of some of the most unruley children,but Super Nanny always find a solution with out ever hitting any of the children,i think a lot of you need to change with the times,and stop your old time thinking it does not work these days,thats why the world is so dangerous today because the polititions are to old and just thinking about what happen 60 & 70 years ago if Bill Gates was thinking like that we may never have computers,if the world in generald was thinking like some of you we will be still riding mules and horses,diesease will take over and all of us will die.

Re: Public beatings
 

Well there is a happy thought...

Re: Public beatings
 

I think I like the idea of riding horses...........

How do you or would you discipline your children, neal?

Re: Public beatings
 

Neal, have you got any children ?
I think you have got things a bit muddled up, it is the old way of thinking of firm discipline for children that kept them in line. Kids were taught to respect their parents and authority figures. Where has this all gone. If you try and correct the youths now they want to beat you up. What do you suggest when these unruley kids are f'ing and blinding at you ? Call the super heroe super nanny ? Its this liberal thinking that has led to the state of our youths now. Children want to be disciplined and be taught to live respectfully with their fellow human beings, not left to their own devices.

I was watching the news just last night and yet another sensless death caused by these unruly drunk youths. A couple were out celebrating halloween and on their way back home were set upon by a gang of youths.
The guy was killed senselessly http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-..._Halloween_Hat.

Why, drunkeness and lack of self control and discipline instilled in these people. How many more of these ghastly stories do we have to read.

On another occassion a husband was killed on his own road by a gang of youths he told off for tampering with his car which was parked in his own drive !!!! This is just the tip of the iceberg, but hey lets call super nanny.

Leave the Bajans alone, if the public floggins of unruley youths works for them, let us butt our noses out, because we sure as hell have made a complete mess of things with our own youths.

Re: Public beatings
 

:thumbsup:Decipline a child start from a very young age,it also has a lot to do with the enviroment the child is being brought up in should it be a caring and loving atmosphere,or a constant miserable one parents are to blame most of the time a child does what their parents do a child speaks what their parents speak that how it all started.How can i decipline a child by love care and attention showing affection giving that child support and the amount of time it needs,talk to the child, make that child feel wanted & happy we are only human being we all will have a period of naughty ness,but unruly children only needs love and attention just like a loving relationship between husband and wife,therefore when you have developed that strong love ,bond and quailty time for each other no one can ever break or take none of you apart. Do you beat your dog to decipline it,do you beat your wife or husband to decipline them,shall we beat harden criminals to make them better, the answer is no,you seek help through conselling or some kind of professional,what parents need is to be a counseller for their children beating will never solve problems it create hate and revenge,i am very sorry for anyone that think beating make them a better person maybe they have heard that from their great grandmother.I cant blame the youth for being this way in today society because there are the seeds that was sown by the people that believe in beating,what you sow so shall you reap.

Re: Public beatings
 

Neal, now come on this becoming like the comedy hour :rofl:
Yes I got a good lash from my parents when I stepped way out of line and I never held any resentment towards them as an adult. Are you saying people who spank their children do not love them ? have you not heard of tough love ?

The seeds were sown when corporal punishment was abolished not the other way around.

Re: Public beatings
 

Hello i was born in Barbados live in Kent & London for 10 years travel six times a year in and out of Barbados if have lots of friends that are British expat and are friend with some of the wealthiest people in England.I join this forum to give an unbias idea or opinion if there are any rules stating that only expat allowed i will withdraw with immediate effect.It is good to discuss a lot of other issues instead of the same old questions over and over no need to get angry if you dont like the topic do like me shut up and ignore it.I have seen many bias comments on Trip Advisor like sewage in the sea next to Discovery & Mango Bay hotels, people are advising travelers to stay away from these hotels,which is very bad because sewage never goes into the sea at these places.

Re: Public beatings
 

Your posts do seem do go off on very odd tangents...

What does being friends with wealthy people have to do with anything?

As for sewage, I think you will find that there is NO sewage system in Barbados along the West Coast, where do you think it ends up...?

Now to public floggings, do you think it is better done behind closed doors? I think if it is going to happen then I would rather the person doing it felt they could do so in the open, who knows what happens behind closed doors? I am sure the 14yr old in Guyana who was tortured by the police would have preferred not to be behind a closed door...?

I think the views on corporal punishment are personal, clearly, but if we look back at what used to exist and compare it to what exists now that children have no disicpline then it kind of speaks for itself. In the main corporal punishment acts as a very good deterrent.

These days, especially in the UK, the children have no deterrent for bad behaviour and know all the rights belong to them, and the very sad part of this is that the children who are being abused are still being abused as these are the "behind closed doors" type of people who will always flout the laws...

*steps off her soapbox*

Re: Public beatings
 

Hi everyone,

I think Neal has a point.

Where are the parents when the kids are out on the streets causing trouble? I'm a firm believer in 'nurturing', and if you teach them right from wrong from the start, give them boundaries and love them, the majority will grow up to be decent human beings. Unfortunately some parents don't do this. If I could have a £ for every time I have been in the supermarket or out shopping and I hear a mother swearing at her young kids (and I mean swearing!!). The kids think this is the 'norm' and so it starts.

I think it is a personal decision for parents as to whether they smack their kids when they are naughty, but I would never allow anyone else to physically dicipline my daughter. As for public beatings. I think it is barbaric!! Why would anyone want to hang around and watch a child being beaten sensless by an adult? I certainly wouldn't.

I do however agree that society needs to do something with these thugs that cause misery to law abiding citizens. I don't have the answers I'm afraid but I really don't think the answer is public beatings.

***** Off the soapbox also ********

Re: Public beatings
 

:rofl:Thank you Lindi2 you seem to be the only person here with some common sense and sticking to the point,it always make me feel good when a person can speak their mind and express their feelings, and not just talk to please others although they know what their are saying is wrong, it shows that you have a mind of your own,we dont just need to talk about migrating to Barbados but anything that can be díscussed,once again thank you for sharing your views on public beating Lindi2 your views was well appreciated 110%:thumbsup:.

Re: Public beatings
 

Lindi2, I do not think these children are bbeaten senseless by anyone.
The unruley ones more than likely just get the cane like we used to have in the UK, but for all to see.

Hopefully the embarressment of this will help stem the errors of their ways.

Re: Public beatings
 

While I don't think Neal always expresses his point very well, at its heart he's basically saying Barbados schools etc shouldn't need to employ corporal punishment to discipline children.

I'm very surprised in 2009 that people would disagree with him!

I can only assume perhaps there are a number of older users posting here who experienced corporal punishment during their own schooling. In most modern countries, this simply isn't acceptable anymore, full stop. And it's time that Barbados caught up to that, in my opinion.

I say that as somebody who lives in Barbados full-time, and puts children through the education system; not an outsider trying to instill Western views and values.

Re: Public beatings
 

There seems to be contradiction in your stories, you say you are born in Barbados and then appear very surprised at disciplinairy punishment at the schools here which you call ´public beatings`. My children went to school here and i would not addres it like that. Apart from the fact of agreeing or not.

I get the strong impression you throw topics on this forum for the simple purpose of starting a discussion to stir things up. Do you have a lack of action in your daily life?

Re: Public beatings
 

I agree totally...

Did my very best to stay out of this debate but in the end thought to share my point of view...
I wouldnt necessary put the behavior of unruly out of hand children of this generation down to lack of corporal punishment.. i bet you will find the majority come from, unloving homes, broken homes, abusive homes, unstable homes, neglecting parents, aggressive parents, uncaring parents, drug or alcohol abusing parents.. I believe no amount of whip lash can sort out a child that is unfortunate enough to come from any such home. if anything, will it not make it worse.

pgtip says "Hopefully the embarrassment of this will help stem the errors of their ways" Why the need to do this.. beat a child with a gathered audience to embarrass them... hell no, totally do not agree and would raise hell on this earth if anyone touched my child.

Each parent to their own and if they agree to have their child beaten in public.. good luck to them... but i strongly believe that parents shouldnt look to schools to sort their children out by ways of beating but reasonably discipline their own children, nurture and raise them to be respectful adults.

A true story, my neighbor that lives opposite me has a son, a single mother, respectful older lady, with a decent young boy. over the years however, right before my very eyes, i saw this boy turn from a good boy into a disrespectful, out of hand street boy, hanging out on street corners in gangs, involved in all sorts of nonsense. I dont know what goes on in their home but one thing i observe is that this woman is never at home as she works all hours God sends.. bless her, but leaving her boy (from aged 11/12) at home alone... he soon started sneaking out and just hanging with other street boys in the area (who im sure have their own stories) though im sure this woman didnt mean to neglect her child, but she did/does not give him the time he needs as a growing boy... hence he's free to do whatever he choose...

So my point is that we shouldnt be so quick to generalise and say the children of today are out of hand because they dont get corporal punishment. There are dozens of different reasons..

BUT point blank.. (and im gonna be bold and say this) i do believe if a child (and i only mean child up to 18.... and maybe a little beyond that) is out of control, its the parents fault... somehow, they messed up somewhere!!!

Re: Public beatings
 

I wholeheartedly agree P4TTY06. Children need a lot of (the right kind of) attention, and as parents sometimes these days we are just too busy to give it to them.

I think it's about giving lots of praise when things go right, coupled with VERY CLEAR boundaries and reasonable expectations, but my philosophy for parenting probably belongs in a different thread (LOL!).

Living in Barbados, one does have to make one's own mind up on corporal punishment when approaching education for your child, and choosing a school where you're 100% comfortable with what they will & won't do.

Re: Public beatings
 

Hi Ikon, I totally agree with what you've said. I would however like make one small point.

I don't live in Barbados but my ties with the country are very strong - I am part of a British Barbadian family who hopes one day to be lucky enough to live there. I know my opinion is not going to change the policies of the Barbados Education system, only yours can do that through the vote.

However I do feel that 'outsiders' views and opinions are just as relevant and can often add to a lively discussion.;)

Re: Public beatings
 

Really !! Do you think corporal punishment is only western values ?
How long have you lived in the Caribbean ?
Most Caribbean families and countries employ some form of capital punishment, why? because it works !!!
Nobody could have loved their children more than my parents, and they were always around to guide and nurture us children. Punishment was always in the form of telling off, talking, or having privilages taken away. Spanking was a last resort.
As you say you are a full time Caribbean resident you should know this long time caribbean saying "If you can't hear you must feel"

Are the bajan kids unruly ?
Are the bajan kids binge drinking ?
Are the bajan Kids experimenting with drugs ?
having under ade sex ?
having no respect for their elders ?
Do they have no respect for themselves ?
Killing each other senselessly ?

So maybe, just maybe, the bajan authorities know what they are doing and we should but our noses out of their business.

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Yeh, everbody thinks their child is an angel !!!
"No not my child, my child would not do this that or the other"

That child if not disciplined properley can quickly turn from your little angel to your unruly devil

Re: Public beatings
 

Right ok i get it, the the only way to discipline a child "properly" is to have them beaten in front of an audience....

My bad, totally missed that one... and for those that are not aware of this, i'll be sure to pass on these wise words... we dont want our little Angels turning into devils now do we...?

Re: Public beatings
 

Sorry pgtips, if you don't think Bajan kids are experimenting with drugs, practising promiscuity, and binge-drinking, then you're living on a different island.

Pay a visit to any nightclub on Saturday evening and tell me the same thing.

Anyone who solves ANY problem with physical means (whether the punishment of a child or a dispute with an adult) is simply using physical superiority to get their own way, because they lack the intelligence to do so any other way.

Re: Public beatings
 

It's not so long ago in overall terms that this kind of discipline was dished out in the UK though in the 60's and running into the 70's Canes and slippers were used by teachers right in the front of the class. It was a humiliating thing to have to go through, but made everyone a lot more careful about breaking the rules and doing wrong. In time that care turned into habit, and in the village we lived in probably the most serious misdemeanour was scrumping apples! :D

OK I'm not advocating public beatings by any means, times have changed, and of course many other things have changed since then that also have had an effect on the kids upbringing nowadays ....... but the cane and slipper actually worked back in the day.

Re: Public beatings
 

Just because something WORKS doesn't make it RIGHT.

Robbing a bank would 'work' to make me rich, but it's not the 'right' route to the result I want.

It's wrong to solve your problems with violence or action, and it's wrong to use superior physical strength to overcome someone. We have to find better ways of dealing with our problems, looking backwards and saying "This used to work" won't do anything to solve today's issues.

Re: Public beatings
 

Where did I say it was??? :confused: I did say I was not condoning it, and I also said that times have changed. I am only telling you how things used to be in the UK, and I think its important for people to understand the history of how it changed in the UK over a period of 35 years to address how it can change in Barbados too!

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Sorry, that was more of a general reply to all the posts talking about "when there was corporal punishment, there were fewer problems".
I realised yours wasn't condoning it, however there were quite a few posters before you who clearly are.....

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To Bamiskados,I was not suprised i raise the topic here to hear your views as expats and was intrested in your opinion.I am a born and bred Bajan and dont have any type of lack of action in my life,i live quite a very happy life and have a son that i will never hit ,he gets the love and attention any child should have, so when i speak to him his action is positive,so for your information i do love to have discussions with people from all walks of life,just hope you dont end up like the Guyanese and make sure that you are legall.:eek::p

Re: Public beatings
 

Are the bajan kids unruly ?

A good few, yes.

Are the bajan kids binge drinking ?

Oh yes, but not all

Are the bajan Kids experimenting with drugs ?

Sadly, yes again.

having under age sex ?

What is the amount of teenage pregnancies again. And would their parents really know about it.

having no respect for their elders ?

most do so, I have to admit

Do they have no respect for themselves ?

I have some doubt in a number of cases

Killing each other senselessly ?

Has been known to happen.


All these points happen in Barbados just like in other places in the world, don't make it sound as if things are perfect here, because they are not.
Everyplace in the world has teenagers that are obstinate, and rotten apples, we are not really different.

So maybe, just maybe, the bajan authorities know what they are doing and we should but our noses out of their business.

It is not all about the authorities, it´s about society, a bunch of us foreigners can have our own views and opinions but cannot change a country and its ways until it is ready to, and there have been a lot of change since I first came there(30 years ago).

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Bamiskados I think that you are having a bit to much of that old Bajan Rum Punch or to much Mount Gay Rum:rofl: ,since the discussion is about corporal punishment and who agree and disagree the list of things that you have mention about kids in Barbados today clearly shows everyone on this forum that corporal punishment is not working,because if it was working as you presume you would mention things like every young child is doctors or lawyers and holding their head up high because of corporal punishment, but instead the vast majority is involve in some kind of illicit behavour shows us clearly that your idea of punishment dont work,since it is allowed in Barbados society for so many years we should be a drug free nation with 3 or 4 universities full of young Bajans because of coporal punishment.Even a blind man can see and understand the point i am trying to make:eek::p

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What's this got to do with the conversation or the price of chips ?:confused:

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Neal, just quoting the list from pgtips and putting answers behind it. It was made to look as if bajan kids are picture perfect which they are not.

I have not given my views on the topic anywhere, so you must have gotten me confused with some one else.

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bamiskados, one thing you did say is that the Bajan authorities may know what they're doing and we, as foreigners, should keep our noses out of it.

A lot of us, yourself included possibly, have chosen to make their lives here and participate in the country as a whole. That (in most democracies) allows for debate of, and even disagreement with, government policies.

It doesn't mean that we're trying to impose British/American/other values on the country, it just means we as individuals feel the policy and law should reflect a certain thing. Participation is considered a good thing in democracy, the idea of just leaving the government to get on with ANYTHING isn't generally a good idea.

Re: Public beatings
 

Come on Neal, no one has said the vast majority of Bajan kids are running wild. Stop distorting the facts to your advantage. I am sure the vast majority are well mannered members of society. The girl guides and boy scouts type.:thumbup: