BajanJo

Hi Linda,
Just a quick reply as I'm at work and it's bit hectic day.
I'm black and my school, St. Winifred's was predominantly white, I had no experiences of racism, but that's probably because the majority of my friends at school were the children of diplomats and had lived all over the world.
I lived in St. Philip at first which is very rural and completely off the beaton track I think, you could say a Norfolk or Devon of the island. I then lived in St. James, which is infinitely nicer but very pricey now because it's where the platinum coast is.
I haven't been to Tortola since I was a teenager (15 years ago) but I remember finding it very rundown and the people weren't as friendly as Bajans.
I hope to be working in the Caribbean next year for the Cricket World Cup and want to visit some of the islands that I visited in my youth and had negative experiences of. I did this recently with TnT and found that nothing had changed in the last 15 years but hopefully that won't be case of the smaller islands.
Take care
Joanna

flaxhigh

Dear Joanna,

Many thanks for your reply. That was interesting. I shall definitely try to find out more about schools. Will you stay in Barbados do you think or are you just working there for a while before you return to the UK? I found people to be more or less the same whichever island we visited (so far, Saba, Anguilla, Barbados, St. Kitts, St. Martin, St. Barths, St. Lucia and Dominica) but St. Barths was the most European in feel - a bit like the Cote d'Azur in the Caribbean - and in Dominica people were very friendly - although again, some of the men did hassle one a bit - but I guess you get that anywhere!

My husband has this feeling from visiting Barbados and being hassled a bit on the beach that he is going to be bothered because he is a foreigner - which is not a great attitutude to have if you want to live in someone else's country for a few years. But I think the experience you get when you are on a beach resort is very different to one you get when you are living in a community in which you are fully involved, don't you think? I woud still be interested to hear the negatives about living in the Caribbean - and what your experiences were that you talk about - not to want to dwell on bad things but I like to be prepared...

Many thanks again,

Best wishes

Linda

username 34

Hi Linda,

I live in the Grenadines just by Barbados and spend some time there as have to go to Bbds for dentist, doc and usual stuff. I have lots of friends there too and although the island isnt for me (I'm a Trini by birth and find Bbds too english and too touristy by far) it has many many good points. The schooling (private) is excellent, loads of expat and local mums who are very friendly but VERY competitive (how much money you earn, what clothes you wear, what house you have etc..) hurricane season isnt normally a big issue down these south islands although we've had a rough couple of years with Ivan and Emily. As long as your house isnt a shack you'll be fine - just incovenience for a couple of days. Tropical diseases isnt really something I've evr come across myself and I eat everything local and walk through the grass.

In terms of where to live try and get as near as possible to the west or south coast. Both are busy but have most of the schools, shops and all amenities. East coast is very quiet and although the island looks small due to the crappy roads in many areas and the AMAZING volume of traffic it can take well over an hour from one coast to tthe other and if you live inland or east coast you'll spend your life in the car!

If you like a busy life with lots of Brit expats you'll love Barbados. If you like more of a local feel and less tourists and hotels maybe it isnt for you - I am an Anguilla lover myself but find us moving to St Lucia next year for our boys to go to school and SL definately is far far less built up and touristy than Bbds.

flaxhigh

Hi there,

Many thanks for your imput - I'm sure I have read messages from you to others on this site when I was researching going to Barbados a while back. Which island do you live in and would you recommend the Grenadines? I love the small islands - though I haven't been to the Grenadines - but I hate the idea of always having to go off the island to do anything like shop, dentist etc...I loved Anguilla too but I think I would get bored there. Barbados is not the prettiest of islands that is true - far too overdeveloped and I see a lot more development has gone on since I was there 5 years ago - St. Lucia is much more stunning. But in its favour, Barbados has a few nice things to do like the National Trust, fab beaches of course, but also a nice parks and restaurants and shops and cafes - I like that sort of thing as I'm used to city life so I need these things occasionally.

I'm interested in the competitiveness that you mention amongst mums. I don't like the sound of that too much - though I can cope with it. Are the expats mainly from the UK do you think or the US? I wonder if most expats live in villas or complexes - I'm still trying to work out which kind of place is best to live in on the island - within my budget. Will you miss the Grenadines or are you looking forward to a bit more happening on your new island of St. Lucia?

Did you automatically get the right to stay long term in the Grenadines because you are from the Caribbean already or did you have to apply like an 'outsider'? I've written to immigration but haven't heard from them. I had a terrible response when I rang the immigration dept in Tortola - I was considering the BVI's at the time. They basically said - no way, you can't come and live here! I really need to find somewhere that isn't too difficult to get long-term residency.

Would love to hear more....

Best wishes,

Linda



I live in the Grenadines just by Barbados and spend some time there as have to go to Bbds for dentist, doc and usual stuff. I have lots of friends there too and although the island isnt for me (I'm a Trini by birth and find Bbds too english and too touristy by far) it has many many good points. The schooling (private) is excellent, loads of expat and local mums who are very friendly but VERY competitive (how much money you earn, what clothes you wear, what house you have etc..) hurricane season isnt normally a big issue down these south islands although we've had a rough couple of years with Ivan and Emily. As long as your house isnt a shack you'll be fine - just incovenience for a couple of days. Tropical diseases isnt really something I've evr come across myself and I eat everything local and walk through the grass.

In terms of where to live try and get as near as possible to the west or south coast. Both are busy but have most of the schools, shops and all amenities. East coast is very quiet and although the island looks small due to the crappy roads in many areas and the AMAZING volume of traffic it can take well over an hour from one coast to tthe other and if you live inland or east coast you'll spend your life in the car!

If you like a busy life with lots of Brit expats you'll love Barbados. If you like more of a local feel and less tourists and hotels maybe it isnt for you - I am an Anguilla lover myself but find us moving to St Lucia next year for our boys to go to school and SL definately is far far less built up and touristy than Bbds.[/QUOTE]

_Tropical_11th

Hi there Linda,

I fully understand about moving... I certainly could see that bringing about some levels of anxiety.

Sorry to hear about that hassel by those guys. I myself had been able to actually walk all around Barbados both day and night and I never really have been hassled. I must say I was quite obvious too, with my big huge camera around my neck and everything.

Barbados is (I think) 6 months as well before needing either a visa, or perm. residency. I think that is pretty standard in almost all country's in the Caribbean??? (That is-- if you're from a developed country.) If you come from somewhere you weren't likely to go back to then you usually need a visa just to enter a well off Caribbean country. No island wants to be seen as the one who will takever everyone elses unemployed.

If you purchase property and can prove you wont become a tax on nation (as Barbados puts it.) Then you don't have much problem with getting prem. resident status. That's the way I should've stated myself.

The UNDP ranking of Barbados puts it globally as a upper-middle income country- so the immigration laws in Barbados might be similar to Tortola, Anguilla, Turks and Caicos, Cayman Islands etc. It's the property laws in Barbados which are rather relaxed.

About attorney, sorry I don't know any. I actually had gone by the information on the Barbados Tourism Encyclopedia actually. ( http://www.barbados.org/relocate.htm ) If I failed then I was going to try an attorney. I just tried to be as thorough as possible knowing at any time I could muck-this all up...

So first I called that telephone number to get the name of a contact (any contact) and took down the email address for the Immigration dept. I explained just what I wanted to- do e.g. file for citizenship. I stated where I was and that I would be needing forms to gain citizenship in Barbados. I asked what if any supporting documentation I would need to send/ what if any would be allowed as my proof of things. And also, what should I include to make this move as smoothly as possible? I wrote my address in the email and my telephone with
ATTN: that contacts name' in the subject field. And I made sure to tell them when they should look for my email: (so it doesn't get lossed or some other agent take it etc.) I then called back the next day to make sure they got my email etc. and to follow up any other questions I had.... I also left my number again and asked when sending back should I put their ATTN or someone elses.... Also I made sure I told them all my circumstance so I don't end up filling out the wrong form and to find out exactly the kind of form they needed to send out to me. And I told them to send a few spares-- or blanks --- just incase I make a mess up I can start over. They then fedex'd the forms to me. I made yet more copies to practice on first. When done I used the originals they send me. I put the cheque for US$13 as they told-me, plus my passport photos, I got a certified copy of my birth cert. from my town hall and sent that (not my original) then I called one last time to tell them what I was going to put in the fed-ex evelope back and asked if there's anything else they might think would help if I add. And told them when they should expect my parcel.... I rounded up a few other things put them in the envel. Mailed it all to my contact again told them I was counting on them etc. and by the summer the following year I was done. I was trying to do this on the cheap because I knew a lawyer would have charged me a little bundle just to type those same forms up.

I hope this helps if even a little,

Cheers,
~Tropical_11th

username 34

Hi Linda,

yes I have to say I love the Grenadines but you have to be prepared to rough it a bit! Definately not like Barbados which is why it appeals to me I think. I get residency through being a Caricom citizen and also my husbands job - the company pay for our residency visas.

The mothers competition is fierce it has to be said - the cars, clothes, houses and schools are the hot topics as well as what clubs you join and sports your kids do. Because the expats are generally wealthy - lots of UK and Canadian from the banking sector - this will occurr as it does in Dubai.

St Lucia is definately more of a balance for us but Bbds will keep you busy! its absoloutely so much better than the UK and your kids will be so healthy and happy. My boys have been here since they were 18 months and 8 weeks and this is their life. We wont return to the UK and I feel very very happy my boys will grow up being West Indian rather than British - I just think theyr whole attitude to life will be so much better and less cynical and the education we can now provide here we cant get in the state system in the UK either.

flaxhigh

Hi there,

Gosh, that was interesting. I see you had to be very conscientious in getting everything done. Did you wait until you got perm residency until you bought a property? I think surely this must be the wise way of doing things. One wouldn't want to risk one's money just in case for some reason you weren't allowed to stay. I wonder what they need to be reassured that you are not going to be a tax on the island? Details of your monthly income? What did you provide them with - if you don't mind me asking.

Many thanks again for your help. Without contacting a lawyer, it really is quite difficult to find these things out. However, I will look up the site you used.

Linda

flaxhigh

That's very interesting. Of course, rich people are always obsessed with how much money they have. I doubt - though not being exactly poor myself - that I'd be able to compete!

I think the situation for us will be quite different as neither of us are, or have any connection to the, Caribbean. We just want a different kind of life for a few years before we return to the UK for (private) secondary schools. My husband's concern, which is a valid one I think - is that it might be difficult for our boys a) to fit in to West Indian culture and b) if they do fit in and are happy, to revert to UK culture when they're older. I feel it can only broaden their horizons and that when they are very young and have this great urge to run around a lot (as boys do!!) the outdoor life has got to be better than being cooped up most months in Scotland....

What do you think?

Best wishes,

Linda

OTE=islandmom]Hi Linda,

yes I have to say I love the Grenadines but you have to be prepared to rough it a bit! Definately not like Barbados which is why it appeals to me I think. I get residency through being a Caricom citizen and also my husbands job - the company pay for our residency visas.

The mothers competition is fierce it has to be said - the cars, clothes, houses and schools are the hot topics as well as what clubs you join and sports your kids do. Because the expats are generally wealthy - lots of UK and Canadian from the banking sector - this will occurr as it does in Dubai.

St Lucia is definately more of a balance for us but Bbds will keep you busy! its absoloutely so much better than the UK and your kids will be so healthy and happy. My boys have been here since they were 18 months and 8 weeks and this is their life. We wont return to the UK and I feel very very happy my boys will grow up being West Indian rather than British - I just think theyr whole attitude to life will be so much better and less cynical and the education we can now provide here we cant get in the state system in the UK either.[/QUOTE]

username 34

[/QUOTE]


I think you're absoloutly right to give it a go - the whole culture is fantastic, very outdoors, very sport orientated and you mix with an amazing amount of cultures and nationalities. One thing I would strongly recommend is that you apply for residency and citizenship as soon as you're allowed and get them passports for Barbados - it just means they have flexibility and options when they're older after graduating.

I for one hope my boys see the entire world as their country and dont feel pegged into staying where they dont want to live as we did for a while in the UK.

Beleive me - they will thank you for ever for giving them this opportunity.

_Tropical_11th

Believe it or not I actually purchased first. Come to think of it, I didn't even really think I waited for my perm. residency to come back before I filed for citizenship. I was actually prepared to appeal, if I got turned down and I knew in the very worst-case situation if I got turned down. I would rent my place out.

I was also fairly relaxed because I knew I could still stay for upto 6 months a year. I also know the price of land in Barbados is reaching astronomical prices and is going to get higher. Currently it is the 2nd? most densely populated place in all of the americas after Bermuda and now within 1-2 generations it even appears most Bar-bajans will not even really be able to get land in Barbados- for a very affordable price. So I knew any land in Barbados will pay for itself without much effort. In addition, to the house I also purchased a tiny plot of land that I could sell off if I was in a pinch... I am a bit more in the island's interior so the prices weren't as steep. I'm close to the Sheraton shopping mall in the Christ Church area (Sargents Village/Vauxhall area) but if I was to do it all over again I would probably purchase a house in Saint Philip out near the ABC highway.

I took the sunday tour bus a few years back which leaves from the Fairchild Street Bus Terminal in Bridgetown it takes you out into Bathsheba and other areas in the north/east of the island and they pass all the nice new flats being built out in re-paved parts of Saint Philip. It looked--- more like a neighbourhood you would see in Miami, Florida. Some really nice large houses are being built now in Saint Philip. Mostly the 'new-money' young families to Barbados.

Overall, from what I gathered it seemed like the immigration dept. just wanted proof I could provide for myself for about 7-8 months into the future. I ordered a fairly recent copy of my US credit report as well and kept that at arms reach just incase, it lists just some-- of the assets I have in the bank etc. And I also put a few hundred in the Bank down there as a US$ denominated bank account to show perhaps good faith that I was intending to pay my own way. Barbados has unemployment and welfare insurance etc. so that's why they make you prove your intention isn't just to move there and collect welfare.

As another step I also contacted my local police department here in the USA explaining a tiny bit about my trying gain intrests overseas and asked if I could get any type of 'writ of good character' basically stating I have no criminal records etc. I was told some Caribbean islands such as Trinidad and Tobago ask for such evidence sometimes before they grant citizenship to anyone so I was prepared to get that as well.

I overall looked at this as someone was going to give an up-or-down vote on why or why I shouldn't be allowed to live there and I tried to make sure I had anything I could need for the immigration agents at an arms length to prove my case. And I was prepared to ask a lot-- of questions too. If something wasn't right. I would have asked what else would I need to change for the whole situation to look differently? If at that time it looked over my head I would have gotten an attorney. But I really didn't want to go that route.

I was just sold on Barbados so I really wasn't thinking other islands.

Cheers,

~Tropical 11th

flaxhigh

Hi there,

That's very very interesting. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for because it is impossible to find out the nitty gritty of what you actually have to do to get to live in a place. I have two young kids, so I have to be cautious. Though I would maintain a house in the UK, I would still need to know I was able to live in Barbados full-time before I invested because I'd need to send the kids to (private) school. Otherwise, of course, living 6 months of the year in one place and the other 6 months somewhere else would be ideal!

I visited the East Coast when we stayed last time but I can't remember now how long it took to get into Bridgetown from there. I would need to be fairly near to Btown as I think that's where all the good schools are. I'm going to speak to Bajan Services tomorrow - we rented a flat from them years ago and they have a very good and updated property site online, so seem pretty together. I had no luck at all finding out any online info about private schools - you're right, they're not very good at keeping a website maintained or having one at all. I shall have to ring around.

Many thanks again for the fascinating insight. It makes it seem a lot more possible when you see the step by step process that someone else has undertaken.

Best wishes,

Linda

_Tropical_11th

Few articles concerning education in Barbados:

1) http://www.cp-pc.ca/english/barbados/learning.html


2)
Article: Good report card - by TONY BEST
Date: Friday, February 18th, 2005
Source: www.NationNews.com - Barbados Nation News

http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tro...a/message/1513

--[SNIP] Problem students in Barbados may worry
adults, but the island has just received top marks for
discipline and commitment to education from an
unexpected source.--

--
3)
http://bararchive.bits.baseview.com/...on%0A%09%09%09

_Tropical_11th

Flaxhigh I think I might have stumbled across somemore education information that you may be interested in. On the Barbados government webpage. It's a broad overview of the education system of Barbados.

http://www.barbados.gov.bb/education.htm

~Tropical_11th

pgtips

Mary where in St Lucia have you seen anyone washing their clothes in the river ? We have washing machines like anyone else, and the island is one of the fastest developing in eastern Caribbean, the Beautiful Pitons has now been awarded a world Heritage site status. Have you seen the beautiful developments in marigot Bay, Rodney Bay, Cap estate etc ?

What are you talking about.
And yes my mother is a St Lucian born and bred, I was born and still live in England, and one thing I can quite categorily state is that St Lucians do not discriminate or give white people attitude, in factthey embrace them and even love them more than their own, only God knows why.
St Lucians including myself love other cultures, it's in our blood and generally we are some of the friendliest Caribbean people out there once you take the time to get to know us.

A few facts about the island, We are building a new modern hospital, which will even incorporate a cancer unit, we are building a state of the art eye clinic, that will serve all of the Eastern Caribbean, we have a good standard of education and a couple of good private schools.
We have just opened a new international school in Rodney Bay, for older children 11+, even German is being taught.
We have two nobel laureattes Sir Derek Walcott, for Poetry and Sir Arthur Lewis for Economics, which is not bad for an island of 160,000 people.

We have secured millions in international investment, roads are being improved, we have a world class cricket ground, and will be hosting the English team in 2007 world cup as well as an athletics stadium in Vieux Fort.

Like anywhere else in the world St Lucia has its fair share of crime, but that is the world we live in now, including right here in England, there is not a day which goes by when there is not news of some murder or horrific crime in England. We got to open our eyes to this and take necessary precautions.
Just because you are in the Caribbean does not mean you lose all common sense and start going off with strangers or accepting lifts from strangers.
You would not do it in UK, so don't do it there, just as you would lock up your house properley at night before you go to sleep.

The most beautiful and scenic part of St Lucia is in the South of the island, around the Pitons, but the majority of work is in the North in Castries.

The Returnee (That is islanders who left 30 or 40 years ago for England, US, Canada) generally tend to retire in the North of the island, in Rodney Bay, or Cap Estate if they have done pretty well for themselves.

The Expats tend to live in or around Cap Estate, some in Marigot Bay.

Personally I would say stick to Cap Estate, Rodney Bay, because this is where you will have access to the best beach (Reduit), schooling for Kids,
Facilities (swimming club in Rodney Heights Aquatic centre), Kids also love Pizza parlour across road at Le sportif (Islands Largest Gym to keep you fit).
There is also an array of watersport you can do on island. There is also a Jack NIcholas designed golf couse in Cap estate. There is also the beautiful fully fitted out Rodney Bay Marina, so you can sip cocktails till your heart is content on your yatch, and on a clear day you will even see Martinique in the distance.

I know Architechs, Optitions, Doctors, Lawyers, Retirees, expats who all live happily on island, and if you are creative and willing to blend in with other cultures this may be a beautiful island destination for you, though personally I can tell you the North of the island is becoming quite expensive for property and land, but much cheaper than say Barbados.

Properties in North generally start from about £100K -£1 million price bracket depending on location, and view etc, but boy do you get a lot for your money.

As to the lady who initiated the thread wherever you end up in the Caribbean good luck to you and I hope it all works out.

username 34

bloody good post! Dont quite know how I missed Marys post that you quoted above but I would have written the same reply!

St Lucia is not only gorgeous, prosperous and one of the most appealing islands to live on - it balances expat life with the real caribbean - something Tortolla, Virgin Islands, Barbados can no longer do as they are now mass commericialised and have been turned into mini USA or UK's!

St Lucia has a lovely balance, good hospitals (with more being built), lovely houses, sports facilities, schools etc etc... and as for cars - I drive a 12 year old Toyota truck and would drive that any day of the week compared to some poncy executive car they all drive where Mary lives! We fit in with the local community and embrace the culture we choose to live in.

Karma to you PGTIPS!