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You might not be planning to return but.....

You might not be planning to return but.....

Old Jul 22nd 2008, 4:28 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by jad n rich View Post
What the petition is about is not 'free' university, UK and australians in their own country still pay uni fees. , but they are heavily subsidised by the gov.

The petition is about mum and dad UK citizens immigrating to australia/canada etc, then after 3 years returning to the UK and their UK born children are then classed as OVERSEAS students and attract the overseas fees which can be around 12,000 GBP per year.

In other words any family on this forum emigrating to OZ etc, then returns to the UK after 3 years or more will attract a bill for their kids uni education at the overseas student rate despite the fact they were born in UK.
Hi J&R

Out of interest, do you know if Aus has a similar policy to the UK wrt returnees and uni fees? Perhaps I should know working in that sector...but I don't!

I've signed the petition but have to admit I am not 100% about the ethics of it. Rights to education are not linked to tax paid by parents or self, but redisency and citizenship. If the residency req't were removed, then the system could be abused masively since there are many citizens who have never set foot in the UK. It is probably not very fair to link it to how long parents have lived in the country as the person at 18 is independent (though may be financially reliant). I think there should be some residency req't, perhaps based on how many years in total the applicant has lived in the UK, or perhaps 1 year before Uni starts, but 3 years seems excessive and inflexible in many real situations. I also seems unfair in light of the fact that a European could pay local fees (if I understand that correctly), but then again British have the same rights in the rest of Europe I assume. With no residency requirement, though, Unis could theoretically be bursting at the seams with re-pats just wanting Uni places, and have to deny places to local students.

SiO
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 4:32 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by ShozInOz View Post
Hi J&R

Out of interest, do you know if Aus has a similar policy to the UK wrt returnees and uni fees? Perhaps I should know working in that sector...but I don't!

SiO
I have been told in various discussions on this subject that OZ citizens can return from any amount of time O/S and still qualify for the subsidised fees.

However I stress this is something I have been TOLD rather than done hard and fast research on so if anybody is in that situation I would double check.
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 4:53 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by jad n rich View Post
I have been told in various discussions on this subject that OZ citizens can return from any amount of time O/S and still qualify for the subsidised fees.
It's true.
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 5:04 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by bigAPE View Post
Thanks for clearing that up. A couple of further questions.

If the fees for overseas students are ~£12,000/pa, what is the figure for British Citizens resident in the UK ? i.e. what is the subsidy from the UK Government ?

Does this apply only to those who are Permanent Residents in Australia or those on Temporary Residency and work sponsored visas as well ? There is a distinct difference between someone intending to work here for a couple of years (even three) and someone with a PR visa intending to live out here for ever and then changing their mind.


Al
As far as I understand, it doesn't matter - if you are out of the country for 3 years then that's it - you are liable for overseas fees. (There are some exceptions - like military service).

You should have put a different heading on this thread. I reckon that every person with kids who is considering leaving England should sign up. Everyone could return and everyone would need to live in England for 3 years until they qualify for subsidised uni fees.

41 should be easy to get from this site. What about starting a thread with "Reading this thread could help you avoid a financial disaster..." to get people's attention?
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 5:54 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2 View Post
You should have put a different heading on this thread. I reckon that every person with kids who is considering leaving England should sign up. Everyone could return and everyone would need to live in England for 3 years until they qualify for subsidised uni fees.

41 should be easy to get from this site. What about starting a thread with "Reading this thread could help you avoid a financial disaster..." to get people's attention?
Fair comment, but I didn't start the thread
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 6:01 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by bigAPE View Post
Fair comment, but I didn't start the thread
I know - trying to kill two birds and all that
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 6:06 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2 View Post
I know - trying to kill two birds and all that
Try a Cylinder Choke with No.3 shot. That should take out two of them providing they're flying no more than a meter apart

This post does not condone hunting and/or imply that I hunt (which I don't)
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 6:56 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2 View Post
As far as I understand, it doesn't matter - if you are out of the country for 3 years then that's it - you are liable for overseas fees. (There are some exceptions - like military service).

You should have put a different heading on this thread. I reckon that every person with kids who is considering leaving England should sign up. Everyone could return and everyone would need to live in England for 3 years until they qualify for subsidised uni fees.

41 should be easy to get from this site. What about starting a thread with "Reading this thread could help you avoid a financial disaster..." to get people's attention?

I can understand that upon recommencing UK residency there is a three year waiting period before being entitled to 'home-based' tuition fees.

But, just to clarify, is it also the case that if you're resident elsewhere for longer than three years, you are no longer entitled to be considered for 'home based' tuition fees? Or is it some other period of time?
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 7:29 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by spartacus View Post
I can understand that upon recommencing UK residency there is a three year waiting period before being entitled to 'home-based' tuition fees.

But, just to clarify, is it also the case that if you're resident elsewhere for longer than three years, you are no longer entitled to be considered for 'home based' tuition fees? Or is it some other period of time?
You have to have been living in the UK for the full 3 year period prior to the start of the course.

I expect that holidays won't be an issue but longer periods of absence will.

So, my understanding is that if you leave the UK for one year and then return (in say August 2008), your child will not be able to get home fees for any course which begins before September 1 2011.

For those parents who leave aand then return after the child has turned 15, the implications could be massive. (Because most courses start when the child has turned 18 and they'd need to have been present in the UK for the previous 3 years)
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 7:33 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

You can't get the dole when you go back after living abroad for a while either. Well, technically you can but the local DHS people usually use laws to prevent European benefit tourism to not give UK citizens the dole.
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 7:38 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by renth View Post
You can't get the dole when you go back after living abroad for a while either. Well, technically you can but the local DHS people usually use laws to prevent European benefit tourism to not give UK citizens the dole.
This must be one of Gordon Brown's directives for stirring up national fervor.

And people wonder why British citizens are apathetic about their nation?

Sheesh.
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 8:02 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Brilliant guys....need another 33 signatures now. Please email the link to all expats...or soon to be expats you know.

I haven't heard of any other country which so swiftly cuts off rights for its citizens and children - I even read today that Spain is offering bonuses for all Spanish born expats who are willing to return there!

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Unfair-Uni-Fees/
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 8:05 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by ezzie View Post
I haven't heard of any other country which so swiftly cuts off rights for its citizens and children - I even read today that Spain is offering bonuses for all Spanish born expats who are willing to return there!
Shows what a ****ed place the UK is, a country where everyone hates each other.
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 9:29 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Errr. Why should my income tax be used to educate the kids of those people who have chosen to leave the country? Those ex-pats I met in Australia had nothing good to say about the UK and kept telling me how amazing Australia is. So do you expect me to foot the bill for their kids' education?! I think it is sensible that entitlement to education should be based on British residency irrespective of passport.
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Old Jul 22nd 2008, 9:35 am
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Default Re: You might not be planning to return but.....

Originally Posted by renth View Post
You can't get the dole when you go back after living abroad for a while either. Well, technically you can but the local DHS people usually use laws to prevent European benefit tourism to not give UK citizens the dole.

My sister and her B/F have just got back to the UK (well a couple of months ago) after 2 years and 3 months out of the country. Both claimed job seekers allowance for the short amount of time it took for them to find a job. As did my husband and myself when we got back from our year out. I was told there are two different types of benefits, for one you had to have been working, for the other one you just had to have paid in enough NI payments durin your working life, but both paid out the same.

Also, that is total rubbish about having been out of the country for one in the 3 years before the uni course and having to pay international fees. Do you know how many people go travelling for a year or two before uni?? Loads. I used to work in a uni in the Uk and there were plenty of people who had gone off travelling before doing their course who still got to pay the UK fees.
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