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-   -   Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM) (https://britishexpats.com/forum/australia-54/word-warning-skills-assessment-aim-331417/)

jonjon Oct 14th 2005 2:26 pm

Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 
Just thought I would give you a quick up date on our application progress

We had a reply today from the Australian institute of management rejecting my skills application for Human Resources Manager, despite having done the role for 8 years at a senior level.

Their letter basically indicates that the rejection is on the grounds of having too few subordinates/direct reports (3 staff members) and my occupation being that of an advisory role to senior executives.

Based on the reply I received I would strongly advise anyone considering applying to the AIM to consider there application very carefully and to make sure that they have sufficient line management reports prior to applying as you may be wasting your money.

We are hopefully lucky as I can still apply to have my skills assessed by VETASSESS and apply at a lower level of personnel office or consultant and still get enough points to qualify (applications go in next week).

The decision is yours but based on our experiences make sure you fully consider all the supporting information you supply.

I was convinced we would have no problems getting my skills approved due to nature of my role and the senior level i was working at.

However If I new then what I know now I would have only applied to VETASSESS and not the AIM and saved my self £150.00


Regards

jon

PWBCSA Oct 14th 2005 2:36 pm

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 

Originally Posted by jonjon
Just thought I would give you a quick up date on our application progress

We had a reply today from the Australian institute of management rejecting my skills application from Human Resources Manager, despite having done the role for 8 years at a senior level. There letter it basically indicates that the rejection is on the grounds of having to few subordinates/direct reports (3 staff members) and my occupation being that of advisors to senior executives.

Based on the reply I received I would strongly advise anyone considering applying to the AIM to consider there application very carefully and to make sure that they sufficient line management reports prior to applying as you may be wasting your money.

We are hopefully lucky as I can still apply to have my skills assessed by VETASSESS and apply at a lower level of personnel office or consultant and still get enough points to qualify (applications go in next week).

The decision is yours but based on our experiences make sure you fully consider all the supporting information you supply. I was convinced we would have now problems getting my skills approved due to nature of my role and the senior level i was working at.

However If I new then what I know now I would have only applied to VETASSESS and not the AIM and saved my self £150.00


Regards

jon

High,

May be yoor sppelin and gramar mystaykes wear a problim four theym.

Gould advys thow and gould luk four the feyutur.

Cheers.


PS. Just having a bit of fun due to being very bored at work, no harm intended!

jonjon Oct 14th 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 
Thanks for the comments

Sorry about the spelling trying to type and think at the same time typical man can’t do 2 things at once Hee Hee

PWBCSA Oct 14th 2005 2:56 pm

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 
Hi,

As a fellow male I found it best to start with something very simple like standing up and peeing, both at the same time.

Hey presto! I suddenly had my first 'two things at once' experience and it was easy from then on.

Cheers.

Vash the Stampede Oct 14th 2005 3:38 pm

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 

Originally Posted by jonjon
However If I new then what I know now I would have only applied to VETASSESS and not the AIM and saved my self £150.00

Regards

jon

So the moral of the story is "Get your ASS VETTED before you leave"! ;)

joho Oct 14th 2005 9:50 pm

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 

Originally Posted by PWBCSA
Hi,

As a fellow male I found it best to start with something very simple like standing up and peeing, both at the same time.

Hey presto! I suddenly had my first 'two things at once' experience and it was easy from then on.

Cheers.

I know I find it amazing that a man can s**t and read at the same time and for so long as well. :D
Jo

phoenixinoz Oct 14th 2005 11:05 pm

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 
Hi Jonjon

I'm sorry to hear about your AIM application. AIM are renowned for being one of the most difficult assessors and I also know of people who have failed even though they were at a very Senior level.

AIM initially failed me too due to not evidencing company strategy. I didn't evidence it as the plonkers didn't ask me to! Anyways, fortunately I'd just written a thesis on strategic intent for the organisation I worked for, so I sent this and they apologised and I got in:rolleyes:

It is for this reason I would normally advise to appeal as AIM, as you say, seem to fail more people than pass them, however in your case they have failed you due to not having enough people in the reporting line. Unfortunately this is not something that is rectifiable unless your company "magics" more people which is highly unlikely. However, it may be worth contesting on the basis that HR dont normally have a large baseline of staff unlike say a General Manager of an operational area? Also, some HR companies outsource some of their work so technically there can be reporting lines [of sorts] outside of the organisation? Anyways, just a thought:confused:

The other alternative is as you say get your skills checked at a lower level via VETASSESS. In fact you've told me something new there as I didn't realise you could do this so I'm not sure what the pitfalls could be?

As an aside, a mate of mine who was also failed by AIM, decided to apply to go to New Zealand instead. He loves it! He intends to gain citizenship and at least he may then eventually be able to apply to live in Aus, although having said that, he loves New Zealand so I'm not sure he'd want to move anyway.

The great news is that at least you have various options available so good luck. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat about the above ....or the MBA for that matter [you mad man:p ].

Cheers
Phoenix

Rob Morton-Jone Oct 15th 2005 9:37 am

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 
Sorry to hear of your news.

My wife is a senior human resource manager and has been now for over 10 years, has around 80 people under her and still failed the AIM assessment :confused:

More to the point, dont give up as there are allways other routes to take as we ended up applying to the TRA for my skills and now have our PR visas.

Its a roller coaster ride, but there is light at the end of the tunnel :)

Best of luck to you,

Rob




Originally Posted by jonjon
Just thought I would give you a quick up date on our application progress

We had a reply today from the Australian institute of management rejecting my skills application for Human Resources Manager, despite having done the role for 8 years at a senior level.

Their letter basically indicates that the rejection is on the grounds of having too few subordinates/direct reports (3 staff members) and my occupation being that of an advisory role to senior executives.

Based on the reply I received I would strongly advise anyone considering applying to the AIM to consider there application very carefully and to make sure that they have sufficient line management reports prior to applying as you may be wasting your money.

We are hopefully lucky as I can still apply to have my skills assessed by VETASSESS and apply at a lower level of personnel office or consultant and still get enough points to qualify (applications go in next week).

The decision is yours but based on our experiences make sure you fully consider all the supporting information you supply.

I was convinced we would have no problems getting my skills approved due to nature of my role and the senior level i was working at.

However If I new then what I know now I would have only applied to VETASSESS and not the AIM and saved my self £150.00


Regards

jon


jonjon Oct 15th 2005 9:58 am

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 
Many thanks for the feedback. Its nice to hear that I'm not on my own with problems with the AIM.

However, it is a little frustrating. When one holds a Masters degree in human resources management and has been able to demonstrate to the chartered Institute of personnel development that one has over 10 years continual personal development, with in senior management roles, and more importantly my chosen profession of human resources and have recently been awarded chartered fellowship by the Institute for my achievements to date. Although a copy of this was forwarded to AIM with a complete breakdown of the requirements necessary to attain this, this has not been taken into consideration or helped strengthen my application.

We were considering appealing against the decision. However, after consideration, we decided to take the alternative route and have my skills assessed at a lower level as there is a far greater chance of the skills being approved as all is required is for me to demonstrate that I have a suitable qualification for my chosen profession.

At the end of the day, the skills assessment is only a means to an end being able to gain the visa and allow us to migrate. Once there I am hoping my experience and skill base will continue to allow me to operate at a management level. Time will tell

I will let you know, how we get on over the next few weeks. Once we have feedback from VETASSESS. If however their say I am overqualified will I be upset or what.

Would be interested to hear how you getting on and any other advice and guidance will be gratefully appreciated


Regards,

Jon

spalen Oct 15th 2005 10:29 am

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 
Just to continue on a theme , I passed AIM as General Manager - but they did nearly fail me - I was phoning them to chase it up and talking to them and they said hmmm you need more evidence of 'insert thing we didnt ask for here '. Upon supplying said mystical thing I was passed.

I think ESP is on the list of criteria they assess you on. They are notoriously hard to pass. I only know Phoenix who passed them other than me,

phoenixinoz Oct 15th 2005 10:49 am

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 

Originally Posted by jonjon
We were considering appealing against the decision. However, after consideration, we decided to take the alternative route and have my skills assessed at a lower level as there is a far greater chance of the skills being approved as all is required is for me to demonstrate that I have a suitable qualification for my chosen profession.

Jon, if you can appleal then I would personally recommend it as it would be best to exhaust this avenue before you go to the next organisation and start again. This is unless by appealing you jeapordise the application? The thing to bear in mind is that AIM are the largest recognised organisation in Management within Australia. Most large organisations recognise the accreditations of AIM and the skils required at the nominated levels more so than any other and whether we like this or not it is important on a CV.


Originally Posted by jonjon
At the end of the day, the skills assessment is only a means to an end being able to gain the visa and allow us to migrate. Once there I am hoping my experience and skill base will continue to allow me to operate at a management level. Time will tell.

I agree. However it is important to realise that once in Aus, employers will be looking for "chartered" acknowledgment at a certain level and generally speaking AIM are recognised at senior level. The other thing, please do not be dissapointed if your UK skills and experience are NOT aknowledged. Do not OVER ESTIMATE the value of your Masters and previous work history. These are not necessarily recognised, acknowledged or respected in Aus regardless as to how marketable you are in the UK [ a bloody travesty of justice given we need to be higly skilled to get here!!!]. This is not always the case, but unless you are in a highly specialised area then forget it. The Australian job market prefer home grown material [ironic when a shortage of skills...allegedly]. The other thing is HR in Aus may differ from HR in UK [in terms of employment law / legalaties etc] however I beleive you are studying for an MBA here so that may put you in good stead from a business perspective;) [presume you will specialise in HR?]


Originally Posted by jonjon
If however their say I am overqualified will I be upset or what..

Well.....be prepared is all I can say!This is why it might be best to exhaust the AIM avenue first or at least find out that if the second option doesn't work out, can you back track on the first? I'd be sceptical personally as I think they'd say you'd "dumbed down" and then you were trying to "dumb up" if that makes sense? Much better to do it the other way round first [does this make sense?:o ].

In summary Jon, I'd say don't give up with AIM just yet if you can appeal. That's not to say it's worth appealing if you can't prove what they need as this would be a waste of time and money. I would personally go down the AIM route first if poss and then try the other if all else fails. This will give you chartered recognition at a senior level whereas the others will get you your points, but not recognition at the level you have worked at [who gives a shit? Unfortunatly they do:rolleyes: ]. I agree if you are only attempting for points then it doesn't matter [unless they then fail you for not being highly qualified!].The other thing to remember is, you may then receive chartered recognition in any new job in Aus at a much lower level than your current role..and this may let you down if applying for certain positions at Senior level. Be very careful down this route as DIMIA may deem you not skilled enough and then you really are in shit street cos you'll get no points and it may be harder to back peddle!

I'm not trying to be negative Jon, I'm just laying the cards on the table as I see it. I have nothing to lose cos I'm here in Aus already and loving it even though the job situation here, in my view, stinks. You need to form your own opinions and to see it from all angles and everyones perspectives and that way you can make an informed decision that suits you best.

Anyways, hope this helps.

Phoenix

phoenixinoz Oct 15th 2005 11:00 am

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 

Originally Posted by spalen
Just to continue on a theme , I passed AIM as General Manager - but they did nearly fail me - I was phoning them to chase it up and talking to them and they said hmmm you need more evidence of 'insert thing we didnt ask for here '. Upon supplying said mystical thing I was passed.

I think ESP is on the list of criteria they assess you on. They are notoriously hard to pass. I only know Phoenix who passed them other than me,

Ayup spalen

I agree. I had a few mates at Uni, all in senior positions who failed for one reason or another. AIM were a sodding nightmare and as you say, sometimes they fail you for not evidencing something they never asked for in the first place!:rolleyes: .....pillocks....

The most gaulling thing though, is that you jump through hoops and run through fire to get here, you demonstrate you have excellent skills and qualifications and even more importantly a great career history, and then miraculously the jobs are not there:mad:

My take on this is that Aus want skilled workers [as generally they have the cash].....and then the only jobs available IN THE MAIN...are the unskilled jobs so they get a good bargain for nowt i.e money into the economy and skilled workers doing unskilled jobs at a fraction of the price:mad:

"SWEET"...as they say.... Howard must be chuffed to bits.....

Ahhh....but I love everything else....so I'm still not goin back:D

Unless John Howard now reports me for letting the cat out of the bag:eek:

JAJ Oct 15th 2005 2:14 pm

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 

Originally Posted by jonjon
We were considering appealing against the decision. However, after consideration, we decided to take the alternative route and have my skills assessed at a lower level as there is a far greater chance of the skills being approved as all is required is for me to demonstrate that I have a suitable qualification for my chosen profession.

Vetassess have a very simple assessment process. All they look at (for a 50 point occupation) is whether you have a qualification equivalent to an Australian bachelors.

They do not care about degree subject.

The only complication might be if you have a masters degree not supported by a bachelors (I've not seen for real how Vetassess deal with these).


Jeremy

phoenixinoz Oct 15th 2005 3:11 pm

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 

Originally Posted by JAJ
Vetassess have a very simple assessment process. All they look at (for a 50 point occupation) is whether you have a qualification equivalent to an Australian bachelors.

They do not care about degree subject.

The only complication might be if you have a masters degree not supported by a bachelors (I've not seen for real how Vetassess deal with these).


Jeremy

Are the points awarded for both AIM and Vetassess the same i.e 50?

jonjon Oct 15th 2005 4:11 pm

Re: Word of Warning Skills Assessment (AIM)
 
no from the AIM for some management roles you can get 60 points and 10 points for experience rather than the 5 for 50 point roles


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