Wilf - put up or shut up
Jul 28th 2003, 6:18 pm
#46
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Originally posted by ptlabs
It cuts both ways. You threaten to quit when people accuse you of spamming. But it's "freedom of speech" when some one else is accused of having a hidden agenda. Please....
It cuts both ways. You threaten to quit when people accuse you of spamming. But it's "freedom of speech" when some one else is accused of having a hidden agenda. Please....
I apologise if the link between postings on freedom of speech and your deletion of threads questioning your deletion of threads evaded you. Perhaps it was too subtle. I will stick to words and ideas of one syllable for you in the future.
Jul 29th 2003, 2:02 am
#47
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Originally posted by jayr
(But who else, for example, both said that immigrants downunder are racist and hypocritical because they complain about illegal immigrants to the UK but still head off themselves to Aus/ NZ? Why - it was Wilf and his mate Slipper.)
Actually it was me, and thankfully there are others who also seem to agree, the point specifically was how hypocritical are the views of those fleeing the UK due to the asylum and immigration issues turning into immigrants themselves. Even more ironic is it for those who cannot see the hypocrisy.
Note: Read this fast before the whole thread disappears
(But who else, for example, both said that immigrants downunder are racist and hypocritical because they complain about illegal immigrants to the UK but still head off themselves to Aus/ NZ? Why - it was Wilf and his mate Slipper.)
Actually it was me, and thankfully there are others who also seem to agree, the point specifically was how hypocritical are the views of those fleeing the UK due to the asylum and immigration issues turning into immigrants themselves. Even more ironic is it for those who cannot see the hypocrisy.
Note: Read this fast before the whole thread disappears
Last edited by TimEh?; Jul 29th 2003 at 2:04 am.
Jul 29th 2003, 7:18 am
#48
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Originally posted by TimEh?
I don't understand why complaining about illegal immigrants in ones own country and then becoming a legal emigrant oneself is racist and hypocritical. The term racist is tossed around far too easily by people today; as a consequence, it's loosing all meaning.
I don't understand why complaining about illegal immigrants in ones own country and then becoming a legal emigrant oneself is racist and hypocritical. The term racist is tossed around far too easily by people today; as a consequence, it's loosing all meaning.
So what gives you the right, my DNA brother, to move around the world to improve your family's condition when I can't do the same. I'm poor, badly educated and struggling - but not through lack of character or trying.
Worth thinking about. We're all the same under the skin.
Jul 29th 2003, 7:31 am
#49
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Originally posted by pleasancefamily
I guess I mostly agree with you Tim. But, let's play devil's advocate. All people on the planet are born equal, right? Some are 'lucky' and get born into rich western society and some are 'unlucky' and are born in poorer parts of the world. Move on a few years. You (rich westerner) are 30, married, 2 kids, university education, a few years' work experience. You can probably live and work in the EU, Aus, NZ, USA, Canada or in fact anywhere you like if you work out the requirements and meet them within a few years. Me - I'm 30, married, 2 kids but have been lucky to scrape a living and good health so far in my part of Asia/ Africa/ South America - I've got 16 years of work experience but nothing that adds up to any points for DIMIA or NZIS or the other agencies. So if I want to improve my family's lot, I'll NECESSARILY have to do it illegally - there is no legal way except asylum and that only applies in cases of persecution/ torture etc - not all that prevalent.
So what gives you the right, my DNA brother, to move around the world to improve your family's condition when I can't do the same. I'm poor, badly educated and struggling - but not through lack of character or trying.
Worth thinking about. We're all the same under the skin.
I guess I mostly agree with you Tim. But, let's play devil's advocate. All people on the planet are born equal, right? Some are 'lucky' and get born into rich western society and some are 'unlucky' and are born in poorer parts of the world. Move on a few years. You (rich westerner) are 30, married, 2 kids, university education, a few years' work experience. You can probably live and work in the EU, Aus, NZ, USA, Canada or in fact anywhere you like if you work out the requirements and meet them within a few years. Me - I'm 30, married, 2 kids but have been lucky to scrape a living and good health so far in my part of Asia/ Africa/ South America - I've got 16 years of work experience but nothing that adds up to any points for DIMIA or NZIS or the other agencies. So if I want to improve my family's lot, I'll NECESSARILY have to do it illegally - there is no legal way except asylum and that only applies in cases of persecution/ torture etc - not all that prevalent.
So what gives you the right, my DNA brother, to move around the world to improve your family's condition when I can't do the same. I'm poor, badly educated and struggling - but not through lack of character or trying.
Worth thinking about. We're all the same under the skin.
Each country has the right to set their own immigration rules. It does not serve any of the so-called rich countries well to simply open up their borders and say "come one, come all."
Countries like Canada, Australia, NZ and the USA need immigrants - of course they do. But what do you say to the honest immigrant trying to abide by the rules if others are simply jumping the queue? Some of them by claiming - as they do here - that they are being persecuted in their own country. They burn (or flush) their papers on the journey over here and then the law says they must be admitted as refugees. Once here, they promptly dissappear.
Jul 29th 2003, 7:46 am
#50
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Originally posted by TimEh?
I'll try to be as measured in my response as you were (I appreciate it)
Each country has the right to set their own immigration rules. It does not serve any of the so-called rich countries well to simply open up their borders and say "come one, come all."
Countries like Canada, Australia, NZ and the USA need immigrants - of course they do. But what do you say to the honest immigrant trying to abide by the rules if others are simply jumping the queue? Some of them by claiming - as they do here - that they are being persecuted in their own country. They burn (or flush) their papers on the journey over here and then the law says they must be admitted as refugees. Once here, they promptly dissappear.
I'll try to be as measured in my response as you were (I appreciate it)
Each country has the right to set their own immigration rules. It does not serve any of the so-called rich countries well to simply open up their borders and say "come one, come all."
Countries like Canada, Australia, NZ and the USA need immigrants - of course they do. But what do you say to the honest immigrant trying to abide by the rules if others are simply jumping the queue? Some of them by claiming - as they do here - that they are being persecuted in their own country. They burn (or flush) their papers on the journey over here and then the law says they must be admitted as refugees. Once here, they promptly dissappear.
Yes - the OECD countries want to avoid the confusion and social strife, a free-for-all and the iniquities of a badly run immigration policy. But it's all too easy to jump on illegal immigration as being largely immigration by 'bad' people (those Ukrainian gangsters, those East European hookers, those Slovakian Gypsies etc) and not accept that a large majority are economic refugees who are actually amongst the most motivated to succeed of their generation. They are just trying to look after their familes - as you and I are doing by heading Downunder.
Jul 29th 2003, 7:50 am
#51
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Knocking down Europes corrupt and selfserving trade barriers would help third world economies as well as Europes'.
(Helps to have a verb in a sentence!)
(Helps to have a verb in a sentence!)
Last edited by The Tooth Fairy; Jul 29th 2003 at 2:27 pm.
Jul 29th 2003, 7:53 am
#52
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Originally posted by The Tooth Fairy
Knocking down Europes corrupt and selfserving trade barriers would * third world economies as well as Europes'.
Knocking down Europes corrupt and selfserving trade barriers would * third world economies as well as Europes'.
Jul 29th 2003, 8:11 am
#53
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Originally posted by pleasancefamily
I don't have a good answer. I think a practical start would be to encourage/ shame rich countries into giving much more aid to poorer countries to help health, education, agricultural know-how and entrepreneurial programmes. Is 2% of GDP beyond us? (The average now is around 0.6% or thereabouts.)
Yes - the OECD countries want to avoid the confusion and social strife, a free-for-all and the iniquities of a badly run immigration policy. But it's all too easy to jump on illegal immigration as being largely immigration by 'bad' people (those Ukrainian gangsters, those East European hookers, those Slovakian Gypsies etc) and not accept that a large majority are economic refugees who are actually amongst the most motivated to succeed of their generation. They are just trying to look after their familes - as you and I are doing by heading Downunder.
I don't have a good answer. I think a practical start would be to encourage/ shame rich countries into giving much more aid to poorer countries to help health, education, agricultural know-how and entrepreneurial programmes. Is 2% of GDP beyond us? (The average now is around 0.6% or thereabouts.)
Yes - the OECD countries want to avoid the confusion and social strife, a free-for-all and the iniquities of a badly run immigration policy. But it's all too easy to jump on illegal immigration as being largely immigration by 'bad' people (those Ukrainian gangsters, those East European hookers, those Slovakian Gypsies etc) and not accept that a large majority are economic refugees who are actually amongst the most motivated to succeed of their generation. They are just trying to look after their familes - as you and I are doing by heading Downunder.
It is true that this may be the very thing that refugees are trying to escape. However I believe that many of the social prejudices are bought with them, and this is to the detriment of our own country.
Also, if you take a bottle, fill it with refugees blood (sorry, probably not a good example), you'll find you can't get no more in it. Englands bottle is full mate.
Jul 29th 2003, 8:15 am
#54
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Originally posted by pleasancefamily
I don't have a good answer. I think a practical start would be to encourage/ shame rich countries into giving much more aid to poorer countries to help health, education, agricultural know-how and entrepreneurial programmes. Is 2% of GDP beyond us? (The average now is around 0.6% or thereabouts.)
Yes - the OECD countries want to avoid the confusion and social strife, a free-for-all and the iniquities of a badly run immigration policy. But it's all too easy to jump on illegal immigration as being largely immigration by 'bad' people (those Ukrainian gangsters, those East European hookers, those Slovakian Gypsies etc) and not accept that a large majority are economic refugees who are actually amongst the most motivated to succeed of their generation. They are just trying to look after their familes - as you and I are doing by heading Downunder.
I don't have a good answer. I think a practical start would be to encourage/ shame rich countries into giving much more aid to poorer countries to help health, education, agricultural know-how and entrepreneurial programmes. Is 2% of GDP beyond us? (The average now is around 0.6% or thereabouts.)
Yes - the OECD countries want to avoid the confusion and social strife, a free-for-all and the iniquities of a badly run immigration policy. But it's all too easy to jump on illegal immigration as being largely immigration by 'bad' people (those Ukrainian gangsters, those East European hookers, those Slovakian Gypsies etc) and not accept that a large majority are economic refugees who are actually amongst the most motivated to succeed of their generation. They are just trying to look after their familes - as you and I are doing by heading Downunder.
Jul 29th 2003, 8:21 am
#55
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Originally posted by chippy
You've made some good points here Don, but, as I'm sure you are aware many of the refugees are coming from countries which are barely capable of self government, often entangled in various states of civil war etc.
It is true that this may be the very thing that refugees are trying to escape. However I believe that many of the social prejudices are bought with them, and this is to the detriment of our own country.
Also, if you take a bottle, fill it with refugees blood (sorry, probably not a good example), you'll find you can't get no more in it. Englands bottle is full mate.
You've made some good points here Don, but, as I'm sure you are aware many of the refugees are coming from countries which are barely capable of self government, often entangled in various states of civil war etc.
It is true that this may be the very thing that refugees are trying to escape. However I believe that many of the social prejudices are bought with them, and this is to the detriment of our own country.
Also, if you take a bottle, fill it with refugees blood (sorry, probably not a good example), you'll find you can't get no more in it. Englands bottle is full mate.
But I had to have a laugh at all those scare stories about the East Europeans poaching the Queen's swans for a riverside BBQ the other day. Good on the little rascals was my first thought.
My second thought was: why stop at the swans?
Jul 29th 2003, 8:22 am
#56
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Originally posted by TimEh?
Err.. I'm not heading down under unless there's summat my wife hasn't told me. No jokes please.
Err.. I'm not heading down under unless there's summat my wife hasn't told me. No jokes please.
Aug 12th 2003, 1:19 pm
#57
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Originally posted by Kiwipaul
A person who REFUSES to declare where they are loses all credability with me, he could just be re posting articles he's read or picked up with ZERO personnel experience.
A person who REFUSES to declare where they are loses all credability with me, he could just be re posting articles he's read or picked up with ZERO personnel experience.
Aug 12th 2003, 1:24 pm
#58
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Originally posted by bryank
Totally agree.
Totally agree.
Your usual stuff, relying on someone else to implant thoughts in your head.
What a sorry thing you are.
Aug 12th 2003, 1:40 pm
#59
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Originally posted by chippy
Also, if you take a bottle, fill it with refugees blood (sorry, probably not a good example), you'll find you can't get no more in it. Englands bottle is full mate.
Also, if you take a bottle, fill it with refugees blood (sorry, probably not a good example), you'll find you can't get no more in it. Englands bottle is full mate.
Aug 12th 2003, 5:25 pm
#60
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Originally posted by pommie bastard
You cannot give blood in Australia as all Pom refugees have blood tainted with mad cow virus , it your case they have a good point.
You cannot give blood in Australia as all Pom refugees have blood tainted with mad cow virus , it your case they have a good point.
