Wife's not sure now
Nov 28th 2005, 11:33 am
#76
Banned
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 316
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by thatsnotquiteright
Sorry you say there is, or there isn't?
I don't say there is no class in Australia. Read my post again. I think the flavour of it is different - but it is a different country. I was brought up in the UK and I see the flavour of it there more socially entrenched. I don't believe money and what you have is a pointer of class, so to some extent, Australia's flavour is slightly more favourable. I mention this because, I've done a search and I noticed that when class is brought up people start discussing private estates and money - if people want this then that's their problem. People wanting to acquire money and material objects is not a class system in my opinion, it's just a Western disease. To me this demonstrates lack of class.
To me class, is more of an issue with needs, wants and education, and protecting people from the worst effects of society.
Indeed. The problem is, and this is getting worse the world over, is that fancy inner suburbs, a new thing - inner was never traditionally best - have 'fancy' schools and attitudes that so called 'middle class' parents want. Its nothing to do with money if you think about it, but money happens to buy that in a world - well - where money talks. Most honest people wouldn't want to have to buy privilege but economics plays a part as the 'best' is a restricted and limited resource - and getting more so. People feel forced to have to pay to maintain their values. In years gone by, people lived more rurally, and or in communities and these values were common currency. Class was an issue, - a kind of demographic pointer - more of what type of work and what education you had, now it's more of a pointer to how 'well you're doing' as everyone is so much more homegenised. Now people work in the city in service cultures and this has given rise to suburbs and snobbery. It's urbanisation that is strangling people. Australia suffers from this.
There are places in Australia where people live the same lifestyle, and it is the lifestyle and values that performs the social cohesion, not anyone's money or class. Suburbs are a blight the world over. This is the real problem. Don't mix up class with behaviour, education or money.
I don't say there is no class in Australia. Read my post again. I think the flavour of it is different - but it is a different country. I was brought up in the UK and I see the flavour of it there more socially entrenched. I don't believe money and what you have is a pointer of class, so to some extent, Australia's flavour is slightly more favourable. I mention this because, I've done a search and I noticed that when class is brought up people start discussing private estates and money - if people want this then that's their problem. People wanting to acquire money and material objects is not a class system in my opinion, it's just a Western disease. To me this demonstrates lack of class.
To me class, is more of an issue with needs, wants and education, and protecting people from the worst effects of society. Indeed. The problem is, and this is getting worse the world over, is that fancy inner suburbs, a new thing - inner was never traditionally best - have 'fancy' schools and attitudes that so called 'middle class' parents want. Its nothing to do with money if you think about it, but money happens to buy that in a world - well - where money talks. Most honest people wouldn't want to have to buy privilege but economics plays a part as the 'best' is a restricted and limited resource - and getting more so. People feel forced to have to pay to maintain their values. In years gone by, people lived more rurally, and or in communities and these values were common currency. Class was an issue, - a kind of demographic pointer - more of what type of work and what education you had, now it's more of a pointer to how 'well you're doing' as everyone is so much more homegenised. Now people work in the city in service cultures and this has given rise to suburbs and snobbery. It's urbanisation that is strangling people. Australia suffers from this.
There are places in Australia where people live the same lifestyle, and it is the lifestyle and values that performs the social cohesion, not anyone's money or class. Suburbs are a blight the world over. This is the real problem. Don't mix up class with behaviour, education or money.
Snobbery is nothing new-and was far far more prevailent and destructive in England of yore.
I would describe Australian suburbs as bastions of egalitarianisn-but some ugly UK-style habits are sneaking in. Like certain state schools becoming desirable and mums trying to do all they can to get their kids in them.
The problem with Oz is the good things that happened there came about without a conscious effort-and now Ozzies look to places like the UK for inspiration. But Ozzies no longer really understand the UK and the rot in it.
I fear Oz willl eventually lose its positive social aspects-as gentrification and property madness followed by snobbery set in-and become a place much like the UK.
As I have said before, materialism may be a western disease generally but it is an anglo-saxon one specifically. A culture that began with great social developments has given way to one where ones personal happiness is set as the highest and only goal-children are not taught any other value.
As I have said , does anyone care how many poteroos become extinct as a result of their immigration to Oz-all that matters is they find hapiness.
Such cultures eventually become destroyer cultures and eventually destroy themselves.
Nov 28th 2005, 12:14 pm
#77
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Port Macquarie, NSW
Posts: 138
Re: Wife's not sure now
Hi OP,
I remember when we received our visa, a part of me was disappointed because we then had to make our dreams into reality. We have now been here 7 months, have bought a house and are both loving it. Neither of us has suffered from homesickness.
If your wife sees her extended family frequently then she will suffer when she is out here. We lived in the UK, 150 miles away from my family and saw them about 4 times a year, so have not missed the daily routine of seeing them. We talk every week on the phone (Telstra do an 'easy half hours' plan - you pay for the first 30 mins, and they pay for the next) and email inbetween. I would suggest that you don't talk in terms of 'forever'. I needed to be reassured by my husband that if I didn't settle, that we would move back to the UK. However we also agreed before going that we would stay for at least a year and we sold our house etc in the UK to cut the ties.
The feelings of reluctance are natural and will get worse as she says goodbye to her family and friends.
Rachel.
I remember when we received our visa, a part of me was disappointed because we then had to make our dreams into reality. We have now been here 7 months, have bought a house and are both loving it. Neither of us has suffered from homesickness.
If your wife sees her extended family frequently then she will suffer when she is out here. We lived in the UK, 150 miles away from my family and saw them about 4 times a year, so have not missed the daily routine of seeing them. We talk every week on the phone (Telstra do an 'easy half hours' plan - you pay for the first 30 mins, and they pay for the next) and email inbetween. I would suggest that you don't talk in terms of 'forever'. I needed to be reassured by my husband that if I didn't settle, that we would move back to the UK. However we also agreed before going that we would stay for at least a year and we sold our house etc in the UK to cut the ties.
The feelings of reluctance are natural and will get worse as she says goodbye to her family and friends.
Rachel.
Nov 28th 2005, 2:25 pm
#78
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: balwyn
Posts: 18
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by DunRoaminTheUK
Hi all.
It's strangely coincidental that so many postings concerning immigration blues and the desire to return to the UK coincide with our recent validation trip to Sydney and my wife's growing anxieties and indecision about emmigrating next summer.
Before the romantic notion became reality and we were issued with our 136 visas, my wife was 100% about moving to Australia.
With each new phase that re-inforces the reality of what we are doing (the validation trip being the most recent) my wife is growing increasingly doubtful about actually going through with it next year and moving for good. This is really depressing me as since we returned to the UK last week I have never been surer about going through with the move. Compounding the issue now is a mother-in-law, her grandmother and now her sister saying things like "Don't go, I'll really miss you", "When your Uncle moved to Australia it nearly killed me and there's not a day that goes by when I don't think about him" and "Mum is putting on a brave face coz inside it's killing her", respectively.
It is interesting to see however that the grass may appear greener but is not necessarily so. My personal opinion is that culture-shock can heavily suppress thoughts and sentiments regarding the original reasons behind the original decision. I spoke to a few people when we were in Sydney who emigrated from the UK in the late 70's and early 80's and they all said the same thing. The first few years and months are like a period of mourning and the desire to return to their comfort zones and familarities in the UK can be unrelentingly overwhelming. However, their practical advice was to see it through because once you emerge from the haze of confusion and apparent unhappines it becomes obvious why you moved in the first place. Bottom line is the long-term investment is definitely worth it.
I think that I am lucky enough to have the foresight to realise that the first few months and perhaps years will be an unsettling time and that we will both, more than likely, feel like returning to the UK at some point or another but that this would be sheer folly, given the time, money and effort invested in getting out to Australia in the first place (not to mention original reasons).
What I really need now is for my wife to be able to appreciate these facts from my perspective. She want's to go but the reality really scares her. We also have a 7 month baby boy (who incidentally slept all the way from LHR to HKG and then HKG to SYD and did the same on the way back - and all this without the use of choloroform) who I personally think would be far better off living in Australia than in the UK. Whatever people's comments on comparing the behaviour of children and adolescents in Australia with those in the UK, lest we forget that the UK spawned the acronym A.S.B.O. for a good reason.
It's strangely coincidental that so many postings concerning immigration blues and the desire to return to the UK coincide with our recent validation trip to Sydney and my wife's growing anxieties and indecision about emmigrating next summer.
Before the romantic notion became reality and we were issued with our 136 visas, my wife was 100% about moving to Australia.
With each new phase that re-inforces the reality of what we are doing (the validation trip being the most recent) my wife is growing increasingly doubtful about actually going through with it next year and moving for good. This is really depressing me as since we returned to the UK last week I have never been surer about going through with the move. Compounding the issue now is a mother-in-law, her grandmother and now her sister saying things like "Don't go, I'll really miss you", "When your Uncle moved to Australia it nearly killed me and there's not a day that goes by when I don't think about him" and "Mum is putting on a brave face coz inside it's killing her", respectively.
It is interesting to see however that the grass may appear greener but is not necessarily so. My personal opinion is that culture-shock can heavily suppress thoughts and sentiments regarding the original reasons behind the original decision. I spoke to a few people when we were in Sydney who emigrated from the UK in the late 70's and early 80's and they all said the same thing. The first few years and months are like a period of mourning and the desire to return to their comfort zones and familarities in the UK can be unrelentingly overwhelming. However, their practical advice was to see it through because once you emerge from the haze of confusion and apparent unhappines it becomes obvious why you moved in the first place. Bottom line is the long-term investment is definitely worth it.
I think that I am lucky enough to have the foresight to realise that the first few months and perhaps years will be an unsettling time and that we will both, more than likely, feel like returning to the UK at some point or another but that this would be sheer folly, given the time, money and effort invested in getting out to Australia in the first place (not to mention original reasons).
What I really need now is for my wife to be able to appreciate these facts from my perspective. She want's to go but the reality really scares her. We also have a 7 month baby boy (who incidentally slept all the way from LHR to HKG and then HKG to SYD and did the same on the way back - and all this without the use of choloroform) who I personally think would be far better off living in Australia than in the UK. Whatever people's comments on comparing the behaviour of children and adolescents in Australia with those in the UK, lest we forget that the UK spawned the acronym A.S.B.O. for a good reason.
I was in a similar situation to what you describe - a friend of mine told me about a saying in the USA "if momma aint happy, then nobody is going to be happy".
and boy was he right -my advice to you is simple - really talk to your wife -not pressure her- just talk to her and between you agree on what you should do - if you are BOTH not fully committed - she will get depressed, really resent you and you will suddenly find australia a whole less appealing. In the first few months, whenever there is a family occasion/friends birthday - you will really feel miserable - it will be times like that you both need to support each other and agree that you would stick it out - if one of you is not fully committed to coming - then problems will quickly appear as the outlet for that loneliness will manifest itself in resentment.
the other alternative is to agree to go for only say 2 years - do not uproot. If things work out then fine - otherwise just go back to UK - treat the time as a working holiday. With a child still too young for school - now is the best time to try it out.
Nov 28th 2005, 3:03 pm
#79
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 55
Re: Wife's not sure now
[QUOTE=lucky]I was in a similar situation to what you describe - a friend of mine told me about a saying in the USA "if momma aint happy, then nobody is going to be happy".
and boy was he right -my advice to you is simple - really talk to your wife -not pressure her- just talk to her and between you agree on what you should do - if you are BOTH not fully committed - she will get depressed, really resent you and you will suddenly find australia a whole less appealing. In the first few months, whenever there is a family occasion/friends birthday - you will really feel miserable - it will be times like that you both need to support each other and agree that you would stick it out - if one of you is not fully committed to coming - then problems will quickly appear as the outlet for that loneliness will manifest itself in resentment.
The above is all true, I felt pressured by my husband into coming here, whatever arguements I came up with to stay, he shot them down and I eventually gave in, because I just couldn't win. The day my visa came I felt dead inside.
You really need to both be commited as I have suffered all sorts of problems since we arrived and would not wish it on anyone else. It puts strain on all your relationships and yes it does lead to resentment.
So my best advice is to talk about it again and get everything totally clear between you both, or else you will be heading for a whole heap of problems later on.
Ladybird.
and boy was he right -my advice to you is simple - really talk to your wife -not pressure her- just talk to her and between you agree on what you should do - if you are BOTH not fully committed - she will get depressed, really resent you and you will suddenly find australia a whole less appealing. In the first few months, whenever there is a family occasion/friends birthday - you will really feel miserable - it will be times like that you both need to support each other and agree that you would stick it out - if one of you is not fully committed to coming - then problems will quickly appear as the outlet for that loneliness will manifest itself in resentment.
The above is all true, I felt pressured by my husband into coming here, whatever arguements I came up with to stay, he shot them down and I eventually gave in, because I just couldn't win. The day my visa came I felt dead inside.
You really need to both be commited as I have suffered all sorts of problems since we arrived and would not wish it on anyone else. It puts strain on all your relationships and yes it does lead to resentment.
So my best advice is to talk about it again and get everything totally clear between you both, or else you will be heading for a whole heap of problems later on.
Ladybird.
Nov 28th 2005, 3:10 pm
#80
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: balwyn
Posts: 18
Re: Wife's not sure now
[QUOTE=Ladybird]
I hope things will work out for you for the better- as far as I was concerned, 18 months after coming here - I have decided that Australia is not worth it if one partner is going to be alternate between feeling "ok and coping" to "miserable/depressed" - there have been hardly any "really great" days- hence we are planning to return to UK after the winter is over.
Originally Posted by lucky
I was in a similar situation to what you describe - a friend of mine told me about a saying in the USA "if momma aint happy, then nobody is going to be happy".
and boy was he right -my advice to you is simple - really talk to your wife -not pressure her- just talk to her and between you agree on what you should do - if you are BOTH not fully committed - she will get depressed, really resent you and you will suddenly find australia a whole less appealing. In the first few months, whenever there is a family occasion/friends birthday - you will really feel miserable - it will be times like that you both need to support each other and agree that you would stick it out - if one of you is not fully committed to coming - then problems will quickly appear as the outlet for that loneliness will manifest itself in resentment.
The above is all true, I felt pressured by my husband into coming here, whatever arguements I came up with to stay, he shot them down and I eventually gave in, because I just couldn't win. The day my visa came I felt dead inside.
You really need to both be commited as I have suffered all sorts of problems since we arrived and would not wish it on anyone else. It puts strain on all your relationships and yes it does lead to resentment.
So my best advice is to talk about it again and get everything totally clear between you both, or else you will be heading for a whole heap of problems later on.
Ladybird.
and boy was he right -my advice to you is simple - really talk to your wife -not pressure her- just talk to her and between you agree on what you should do - if you are BOTH not fully committed - she will get depressed, really resent you and you will suddenly find australia a whole less appealing. In the first few months, whenever there is a family occasion/friends birthday - you will really feel miserable - it will be times like that you both need to support each other and agree that you would stick it out - if one of you is not fully committed to coming - then problems will quickly appear as the outlet for that loneliness will manifest itself in resentment.
The above is all true, I felt pressured by my husband into coming here, whatever arguements I came up with to stay, he shot them down and I eventually gave in, because I just couldn't win. The day my visa came I felt dead inside.
You really need to both be commited as I have suffered all sorts of problems since we arrived and would not wish it on anyone else. It puts strain on all your relationships and yes it does lead to resentment.
So my best advice is to talk about it again and get everything totally clear between you both, or else you will be heading for a whole heap of problems later on.
Ladybird.
Nov 28th 2005, 9:53 pm
#81
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by Breezey
Very thoughtful post. I think 'class' based purely on money one has is the lesser of two evils. I find 'class' based on upbringing and socio-economic background far more insidious
Nov 28th 2005, 10:39 pm
#82
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Hillarys, Perth
Posts: 555
Re: Wife's not sure now
To the OP, I also have to admit to being in the same position as your wife 
. My family are like your wife's and it is incredibly wearing. I have started looking around me when I am out and about, noticing the people who wave and say hello, my friends, my lovely home and neighbours, my children with their friends and the life I have worked very hard to achieve here. It all places the biggest doubts imaginable into my mind. But then I think about the adventure, the challenge and the achievement of going to Aus, so it's all very confusing. I think the reality of getting your visa brings all the practicalities to the fore. We have an incredible amount to do and in a really short time too, and it just all seems like too much sometimes.
My advice would be to listen to your wife, don't try to find solutions for every gripe she has, if you do it will seem like a contradiction to her thoughts and in return feel like more pressure. You know what us women are like
. Help with the practical things involved in the move and don't try to 'force' her to see your point of view.
I agree with a previous poster, don't focus on it being 'forever' as this can seem incredibly daunting. The fact that you have such a young baby and the responsibility that brings is probably a huge factor in your wife's mind too.
I wish you both luck in whatever you decide. I'm sure you'll come to an agreement that suits you both.
TJ
. My family are like your wife's and it is incredibly wearing. I have started looking around me when I am out and about, noticing the people who wave and say hello, my friends, my lovely home and neighbours, my children with their friends and the life I have worked very hard to achieve here. It all places the biggest doubts imaginable into my mind. But then I think about the adventure, the challenge and the achievement of going to Aus, so it's all very confusing. I think the reality of getting your visa brings all the practicalities to the fore. We have an incredible amount to do and in a really short time too, and it just all seems like too much sometimes.My advice would be to listen to your wife, don't try to find solutions for every gripe she has, if you do it will seem like a contradiction to her thoughts and in return feel like more pressure. You know what us women are like
. Help with the practical things involved in the move and don't try to 'force' her to see your point of view. I agree with a previous poster, don't focus on it being 'forever' as this can seem incredibly daunting. The fact that you have such a young baby and the responsibility that brings is probably a huge factor in your wife's mind too.
I wish you both luck in whatever you decide. I'm sure you'll come to an agreement that suits you both.
TJ
Nov 29th 2005, 1:04 am
#83
Banned
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 316
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by thatsnotquiteright
See what you mean, but to an extent, education/upbringing can free people and doesn't have to be expensive. Attitude and motivation is the key, rich or poor. There are blurred boundaries! I disagree with you to a point, class based on money is the worst because it hides other problems, now, achievement - there's nothing wrong with that. People also mix up achievement with money!
