Wife's not sure now
Nov 28th 2005, 8:36 am
#61
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 715
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by Margaret2
Just thought this was so true and so funny
I usually work in office environments so an eye opener for me 
I was actually taking shoes off sale last week so had things in pile and looked busy. I kid you not as soon as every customer came in they rushed over to me like they were missing something, wading through these flipping shoes. They are like vultures, most are reasonally civil, but for the most people are rude and full of spouting off "I know my rights"
Nov 28th 2005, 8:37 am
#62
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,365
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by jad n rich
The woman thing probably comes down to family, like the OP his wife has a 7 month old baby, forget the OZ wont have the same problems cause it will, and it comes down to how much a womans family mean to her once she has kids. Many women just want their kids to have an extended family 
nowt wrong with that.
nowt wrong with that.
Nov 28th 2005, 8:39 am
#63
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Hillarys, Perth
Posts: 3,973
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by Grayling
A recent Australian study concluded that the self harm rates in both countries were about the same:
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/...l10634_fm.html
G
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/...l10634_fm.html
G
Presuming I am reading that website right, its saying that 6.2% DSH ?
Nov 28th 2005, 8:39 am
#64
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,365
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by merlotsmum
I try not let it get to me but at the moment I am covering for a Manager (for two months) who is off sick at a local High Street Ladies fashion store, which is great apart from the customers I usually work in office environments so an eye opener for me
I was actually taking shoes off sale last week so had things in pile and looked busy. I kid you not as soon as every customer came in they rushed over to me like they were missing something, wading through these flipping shoes. They are like vultures, most are reasonally civil, but for the most people are rude and full of spouting off "I know my rights"
I usually work in office environments so an eye opener for me I was actually taking shoes off sale last week so had things in pile and looked busy. I kid you not as soon as every customer came in they rushed over to me like they were missing something, wading through these flipping shoes. They are like vultures, most are reasonally civil, but for the most people are rude and full of spouting off "I know my rights"
Nov 28th 2005, 8:42 am
#65
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Wakefield.......now Wellington Point
Posts: 1,284
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by DunRoaminTheUK
Hi all.
It's strangely coincidental that so many postings concerning immigration blues and the desire to return to the UK coincide with our recent validation trip to Sydney and my wife's growing anxieties and indecision about emmigrating next summer.
Before the romantic notion became reality and we were issued with our 136 visas, my wife was 100% about moving to Australia.
With each new phase that re-inforces the reality of what we are doing (the validation trip being the most recent) my wife is growing increasingly doubtful about actually going through with it next year and moving for good. This is really depressing me as since we returned to the UK last week I have never been surer about going through with the move. Compounding the issue now is a mother-in-law, her grandmother and now her sister saying things like "Don't go, I'll really miss you", "When your Uncle moved to Australia it nearly killed me and there's not a day that goes by when I don't think about him" and "Mum is putting on a brave face coz inside it's killing her", respectively.
It is interesting to see however that the grass may appear greener but is not necessarily so. My personal opinion is that culture-shock can heavily suppress thoughts and sentiments regarding the original reasons behind the original decision. I spoke to a few people when we were in Sydney who emigrated from the UK in the late 70's and early 80's and they all said the same thing. The first few years and months are like a period of mourning and the desire to return to their comfort zones and familarities in the UK can be unrelentingly overwhelming. However, their practical advice was to see it through because once you emerge from the haze of confusion and apparent unhappines it becomes obvious why you moved in the first place. Bottom line is the long-term investment is definitely worth it.
I think that I am lucky enough to have the foresight to realise that the first few months and perhaps years will be an unsettling time and that we will both, more than likely, feel like returning to the UK at some point or another but that this would be sheer folly, given the time, money and effort invested in getting out to Australia in the first place (not to mention original reasons).
What I really need now is for my wife to be able to appreciate these facts from my perspective. She want's to go but the reality really scares her. We also have a 7 month baby boy (who incidentally slept all the way from LHR to HKG and then HKG to SYD and did the same on the way back - and all this without the use of choloroform) who I personally think would be far better off living in Australia than in the UK. Whatever people's comments on comparing the behaviour of children and adolescents in Australia with those in the UK, lest we forget that the UK spawned the acronym A.S.B.O. for a good reason.
It's strangely coincidental that so many postings concerning immigration blues and the desire to return to the UK coincide with our recent validation trip to Sydney and my wife's growing anxieties and indecision about emmigrating next summer.
Before the romantic notion became reality and we were issued with our 136 visas, my wife was 100% about moving to Australia.
With each new phase that re-inforces the reality of what we are doing (the validation trip being the most recent) my wife is growing increasingly doubtful about actually going through with it next year and moving for good. This is really depressing me as since we returned to the UK last week I have never been surer about going through with the move. Compounding the issue now is a mother-in-law, her grandmother and now her sister saying things like "Don't go, I'll really miss you", "When your Uncle moved to Australia it nearly killed me and there's not a day that goes by when I don't think about him" and "Mum is putting on a brave face coz inside it's killing her", respectively.
It is interesting to see however that the grass may appear greener but is not necessarily so. My personal opinion is that culture-shock can heavily suppress thoughts and sentiments regarding the original reasons behind the original decision. I spoke to a few people when we were in Sydney who emigrated from the UK in the late 70's and early 80's and they all said the same thing. The first few years and months are like a period of mourning and the desire to return to their comfort zones and familarities in the UK can be unrelentingly overwhelming. However, their practical advice was to see it through because once you emerge from the haze of confusion and apparent unhappines it becomes obvious why you moved in the first place. Bottom line is the long-term investment is definitely worth it.
I think that I am lucky enough to have the foresight to realise that the first few months and perhaps years will be an unsettling time and that we will both, more than likely, feel like returning to the UK at some point or another but that this would be sheer folly, given the time, money and effort invested in getting out to Australia in the first place (not to mention original reasons).
What I really need now is for my wife to be able to appreciate these facts from my perspective. She want's to go but the reality really scares her. We also have a 7 month baby boy (who incidentally slept all the way from LHR to HKG and then HKG to SYD and did the same on the way back - and all this without the use of choloroform) who I personally think would be far better off living in Australia than in the UK. Whatever people's comments on comparing the behaviour of children and adolescents in Australia with those in the UK, lest we forget that the UK spawned the acronym A.S.B.O. for a good reason.
I think sometimes you get caught up in the visa application process and it isn't till you actually are granted the visa that it all becomes a reality. I can remember that when my visa was granted I was not as excited as I thought I might have been, probably because I then realised that we were actually going and the enormity of what we were doing hit me. I can imagine why your wife will be very nervous as if she will be staying at home with your son whilst you go to work she will be thinking about the lack of support or social contact. I think this is why it is quite often the wife/mother who feels homesick more than anyone else. On the other hand she will be able to start building friendships with other people at toddler groups and such and when your son starts school this will be another avenue where friends are made. Some of my very good friends in UK were people I met at the school gate when our children started nursery school. It must be very hard on her if she is receiving pressure from family members. Hopefully as the time gets nearer she will feel more positive about the move. I wish you all the best.
Amanda
Nov 28th 2005, 8:43 am
#66
Bitter and twisted
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Upmarket
Posts: 17,503
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by Siren & Brian
Presuming I am reading that website right, its saying that 6.2% DSH ?
If you read the discussion it states it is the same as the UK figures.
G
Nov 28th 2005, 8:45 am
#67
Bitter and twisted
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Upmarket
Posts: 17,503
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by Grayling
Something like 11% for girls.
If you read the discussion it states it is the same as the UK figures.
G
If you read the discussion it states it is the same as the UK figures.
G
G
Nov 28th 2005, 9:01 am
#68
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Wife's not sure now
People will always be able to find extremes and point to these to argue their case. People always mix up class, with education, with money. There will always be people who see money as everything. Of course people are not equal in this respect. Whatever your definition of class is, many people in the UK can better themselves by moving. There is a class system in Australia but it is not quite so muddled or entrenched, or, activities, interests and outlooks seem to be shared across class. It's a lot more subtle than the casual observer can realise.
I only have to watch British TV programmes and the social-economic situation of many people is very obvious. As for social skills, I watched a programme last night and remembered how many British people actually interacted and spoke, and realised I much prefer the Australian version. My wife and I find British programming quite amusing for this reason.
I only have to watch British TV programmes and the social-economic situation of many people is very obvious. As for social skills, I watched a programme last night and remembered how many British people actually interacted and spoke, and realised I much prefer the Australian version. My wife and I find British programming quite amusing for this reason.
Last edited by thatsnotquiteright; Nov 28th 2005 at 9:06 am.
Nov 28th 2005, 9:08 am
#69
Banned
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 316
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
That's just raw capitalist snobbery; it has nothing to do with "class" distinctions.
Oh, and try being a regular white bloke and go into one of the posh gated communities; you'll still need a pile of cash to live there - and if you haven't got it, you'll be out on your ear.
Oh, and try being a regular white bloke and go into one of the posh gated communities; you'll still need a pile of cash to live there - and if you haven't got it, you'll be out on your ear.
For a place that began as a Penal colony settled by convicts Oz has come close to Utopia.
Anyone that thinks Oz is overly class-conscious is off the planet.
As for Aborigines, thats an issue to complicated to discuss here, but enormous amounts of efforts and money have been thrown at them(rightly so).
Nov 28th 2005, 9:14 am
#70
Banned
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 316
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by thatsnotquiteright
People will always be able to find extremes and point to these to argue their case. People always mix up class, with education, with money. There will always be people who see money as everything. Of course people are not equal in this respect. Whatever your definition of class is, many people in the UK can better themselves by moving. There is a class system in Australia but it is not quite so muddled or entrenched, or, activities, interests and outlooks seem to be shared across class. It's a lot more subtle than the casual observer can realise.
I only have to watch British TV programmes and the social-economic situation of many people is very obvious. As for social skills, I watched a programme last night and remembered how many British people actually interacted and spoke, and realised I much prefer the Australian version. My wife and I find British programming quite amusing for this reason.
I only have to watch British TV programmes and the social-economic situation of many people is very obvious. As for social skills, I watched a programme last night and remembered how many British people actually interacted and spoke, and realised I much prefer the Australian version. My wife and I find British programming quite amusing for this reason.
Nov 28th 2005, 9:29 am
#71
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Eldorado (near Wangaratta) 'country Victoria'
Posts: 1,451
Re: Wife's not sure now
hi there this seems to have got a bit stuck into the old arguments of OZ V's UK.
I have moved around a lot with my husband's work and have seen many Ex-Pat families torn apart by the fact that both partners had different expectations and motivations for making a move. I would suggest that the Op speaks to his wife and honestly discusses what her worries are as they may be easily sorted but if not immediatley sorted then at least they will be moving with it all out in the open. Most of the problems that friends and aquaintances of ours have had have been down to one partner being able to throw themselves into the working life of the new country leaving the other as a trailing spouse feeling very isolated. It is hard with a young child to see the advantages in moving from your comfort zone where you have support and friendships and it is often hard to believe that those sorts of things can come elsewhere.
There are advantages if you both want it and you work together but I fully understand where your wife is coming from. I moved to Belgium with 4 kids the youngest being 6 months old, very little language skills no family etc. Your mind goes through all of the standard worries what if... the kids are ill, I get stuck and can't pick them up from school, I get ill, I can't make friends there and so on. In reality it is often easier with kids as they are a great excuse to make friends and often there are other people in a similar situation as families can be very far flung.
Are you both happy with your choice of Sydney? We are in a town (the locals call it a city) NE of Melbourne and love the life here as it is a very similar sized place to the place that we were happiest in the UK so no massive sulture chock with moving to a city from the countryside etc.
Family can be very manipulative (often without thinking about it), my parents went to the USA with my Dad's work and they came back to the UK for a while because of the pressure that his parents were putting on him (can't cope without him etc). In the end he found that it made no difference where he was he needed to be happy and he wasn't in the UK so he went back and things are a lot better (it is an expensive process though).
I hope that you all get sorted and that the worries can be put into perspective (they won't go until you actually get there and find that you can do it then they get replaced with other worries as far as kids are concerned
).
Sorry if I have gone on a bit too much hope that it has been a help.
All the best.
Nicky
I have moved around a lot with my husband's work and have seen many Ex-Pat families torn apart by the fact that both partners had different expectations and motivations for making a move. I would suggest that the Op speaks to his wife and honestly discusses what her worries are as they may be easily sorted but if not immediatley sorted then at least they will be moving with it all out in the open. Most of the problems that friends and aquaintances of ours have had have been down to one partner being able to throw themselves into the working life of the new country leaving the other as a trailing spouse feeling very isolated. It is hard with a young child to see the advantages in moving from your comfort zone where you have support and friendships and it is often hard to believe that those sorts of things can come elsewhere.
There are advantages if you both want it and you work together but I fully understand where your wife is coming from. I moved to Belgium with 4 kids the youngest being 6 months old, very little language skills no family etc. Your mind goes through all of the standard worries what if... the kids are ill, I get stuck and can't pick them up from school, I get ill, I can't make friends there and so on. In reality it is often easier with kids as they are a great excuse to make friends and often there are other people in a similar situation as families can be very far flung.
Are you both happy with your choice of Sydney? We are in a town (the locals call it a city) NE of Melbourne and love the life here as it is a very similar sized place to the place that we were happiest in the UK so no massive sulture chock with moving to a city from the countryside etc.
Family can be very manipulative (often without thinking about it), my parents went to the USA with my Dad's work and they came back to the UK for a while because of the pressure that his parents were putting on him (can't cope without him etc). In the end he found that it made no difference where he was he needed to be happy and he wasn't in the UK so he went back and things are a lot better (it is an expensive process though).
I hope that you all get sorted and that the worries can be put into perspective (they won't go until you actually get there and find that you can do it then they get replaced with other worries as far as kids are concerned
).Sorry if I have gone on a bit too much hope that it has been a help.
All the best.
Nicky
Nov 28th 2005, 10:12 am
#72
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: In a house
Posts: 2,590
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by Breezey
Its called the 'grass is greener' phenomena-it was all great till you got the visa and then it didnt seem all that good-merely because you had it.
Let me predict-you wont like Australia and will bag it-and accuse it of having no culcha.
As for ASBO's, no country can take the place of good parenting (admitedly I failed-but did try). Your childs future is in your hands in either place.
Let me predict-you wont like Australia and will bag it-and accuse it of having no culcha.
As for ASBO's, no country can take the place of good parenting (admitedly I failed-but did try). Your childs future is in your hands in either place.
Can I nominate for post of the week????? Excellent to the point and well thought out
Nov 28th 2005, 10:25 am
#73
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2005
Location: Bunbury WA
Posts: 1,844
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by DunRoaminTheUK
Hi all.
It's strangely coincidental that so many postings concerning immigration blues and the desire to return to the UK coincide with our recent validation trip to Sydney and my wife's growing anxieties and indecision about emmigrating next summer.
Before the romantic notion became reality and we were issued with our 136 visas, my wife was 100% about moving to Australia.
With each new phase that re-inforces the reality of what we are doing (the validation trip being the most recent) my wife is growing increasingly doubtful about actually going through with it next year and moving for good. This is really depressing me as since we returned to the UK last week I have never been surer about going through with the move. Compounding the issue now is a mother-in-law, her grandmother and now her sister saying things like "Don't go, I'll really miss you", "When your Uncle moved to Australia it nearly killed me and there's not a day that goes by when I don't think about him" and "Mum is putting on a brave face coz inside it's killing her", respectively.
It is interesting to see however that the grass may appear greener but is not necessarily so. My personal opinion is that culture-shock can heavily suppress thoughts and sentiments regarding the original reasons behind the original decision. I spoke to a few people when we were in Sydney who emigrated from the UK in the late 70's and early 80's and they all said the same thing. The first few years and months are like a period of mourning and the desire to return to their comfort zones and familarities in the UK can be unrelentingly overwhelming. However, their practical advice was to see it through because once you emerge from the haze of confusion and apparent unhappines it becomes obvious why you moved in the first place. Bottom line is the long-term investment is definitely worth it.
I think that I am lucky enough to have the foresight to realise that the first few months and perhaps years will be an unsettling time and that we will both, more than likely, feel like returning to the UK at some point or another but that this would be sheer folly, given the time, money and effort invested in getting out to Australia in the first place (not to mention original reasons).
What I really need now is for my wife to be able to appreciate these facts from my perspective. She want's to go but the reality really scares her. We also have a 7 month baby boy (who incidentally slept all the way from LHR to HKG and then HKG to SYD and did the same on the way back - and all this without the use of choloroform) who I personally think would be far better off living in Australia than in the UK. Whatever people's comments on comparing the behaviour of children and adolescents in Australia with those in the UK, lest we forget that the UK spawned the acronym A.S.B.O. for a good reason.
It's strangely coincidental that so many postings concerning immigration blues and the desire to return to the UK coincide with our recent validation trip to Sydney and my wife's growing anxieties and indecision about emmigrating next summer.
Before the romantic notion became reality and we were issued with our 136 visas, my wife was 100% about moving to Australia.
With each new phase that re-inforces the reality of what we are doing (the validation trip being the most recent) my wife is growing increasingly doubtful about actually going through with it next year and moving for good. This is really depressing me as since we returned to the UK last week I have never been surer about going through with the move. Compounding the issue now is a mother-in-law, her grandmother and now her sister saying things like "Don't go, I'll really miss you", "When your Uncle moved to Australia it nearly killed me and there's not a day that goes by when I don't think about him" and "Mum is putting on a brave face coz inside it's killing her", respectively.
It is interesting to see however that the grass may appear greener but is not necessarily so. My personal opinion is that culture-shock can heavily suppress thoughts and sentiments regarding the original reasons behind the original decision. I spoke to a few people when we were in Sydney who emigrated from the UK in the late 70's and early 80's and they all said the same thing. The first few years and months are like a period of mourning and the desire to return to their comfort zones and familarities in the UK can be unrelentingly overwhelming. However, their practical advice was to see it through because once you emerge from the haze of confusion and apparent unhappines it becomes obvious why you moved in the first place. Bottom line is the long-term investment is definitely worth it.
I think that I am lucky enough to have the foresight to realise that the first few months and perhaps years will be an unsettling time and that we will both, more than likely, feel like returning to the UK at some point or another but that this would be sheer folly, given the time, money and effort invested in getting out to Australia in the first place (not to mention original reasons).
What I really need now is for my wife to be able to appreciate these facts from my perspective. She want's to go but the reality really scares her. We also have a 7 month baby boy (who incidentally slept all the way from LHR to HKG and then HKG to SYD and did the same on the way back - and all this without the use of choloroform) who I personally think would be far better off living in Australia than in the UK. Whatever people's comments on comparing the behaviour of children and adolescents in Australia with those in the UK, lest we forget that the UK spawned the acronym A.S.B.O. for a good reason.
Hubby could not wait to get here, but he is not from a close family.
I think when family puts the guilt on you, it is a very selfish attitude, we all want what is best for our kids. And they should want the best for us, she feels bad enough without the added pressure.
If she does not do it she may regret it all her life, just go for it, never say never, nothing is permanent. Treat it as an adventure, but not for ever. good luck to you all , what a great baby. Denise
Nov 28th 2005, 10:45 am
#74
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by Breezey
I disagree, there is next to no class system in Oz.
I don't say there is no class in Australia. Read my post again. I think the flavour of it is different - but it is a different country. I was brought up in the UK and I see the flavour of it there more socially entrenched. I don't believe money and what you have is a pointer of class, so to some extent, Australia's flavour is slightly more favourable. I mention this because, I've done a search and I noticed that when class is brought up people start discussing private estates and money - if people want this then that's their problem. People wanting to acquire money and material objects is not a class system in my opinion, it's just a Western disease. To me this demonstrates lack of class.
To me class, is more of an issue with needs, wants and education, and protecting people from the worst effects of society.
Originally Posted by Breezey
If you can afford it you live in a fancy suburb if you can't you don't.
There are places in Australia where people live the same lifestyle, and it is the lifestyle and values that performs the social cohesion, not anyone's money or class. Suburbs are a blight the world over. This is the real problem. Don't mix up class with behaviour, education or money.
Nov 28th 2005, 11:08 am
#75
Banned
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 316
Re: Wife's not sure now
Originally Posted by thatsnotquiteright
Sorry you say there is, or there isn't?
I don't say there is no class in Australia. Read my post again. I think the flavour of it is different - but it is a different country. I was brought up in the UK and I see the flavour of it there more socially entrenched. I don't believe money and what you have is a pointer of class, so to some extent, Australia's flavour is slightly more favourable. I mention this because, I've done a search and I noticed that when class is brought up people start discussing private estates and money - if people want this then that's their problem. People wanting to acquire money and material objects is not a class system in my opinion, it's just a Western disease. To me this demonstrates lack of class. To me class, is more of an issue with needs, wants and education, and protecting people from the worst effects of society.
Indeed. The problem is, and this is getting worse the world over, is that fancy inner suburbs, a new thing - inner was never traditionally best - have 'fancy' schools and attitudes that so called 'middle class' parents want. Its nothing to do with money if you think about it, but money happens to buy that in a world - well - where money talks. Most honest people wouldn't want to have to buy privilege but economics plays a part as the 'best' is a restricted and limited resource - and getting more so. People feel forced to have to pay to maintain their values. In years gone by, people lived more rurally, and or in communities and these values were common currency. Class was an issue, - a kind of demographic pointer - more of what type of work and what education you had, now it's more of a pointer to how 'well you're doing' as everyone is so much more homegenised. Now people work in the city in service cultures and this has given rise to suburbs and snobbery. It's urbanisation that is strangling people. Australia suffers from this.
There are places in Australia where people live the same lifestyle, and it is the lifestyle and values that performs the social cohesion, not anyone's money or class. Suburbs are a blight the world over. This is the real problem. Don't mix up class with behaviour, education or money.
I don't say there is no class in Australia. Read my post again. I think the flavour of it is different - but it is a different country. I was brought up in the UK and I see the flavour of it there more socially entrenched. I don't believe money and what you have is a pointer of class, so to some extent, Australia's flavour is slightly more favourable. I mention this because, I've done a search and I noticed that when class is brought up people start discussing private estates and money - if people want this then that's their problem. People wanting to acquire money and material objects is not a class system in my opinion, it's just a Western disease. To me this demonstrates lack of class.
To me class, is more of an issue with needs, wants and education, and protecting people from the worst effects of society. Indeed. The problem is, and this is getting worse the world over, is that fancy inner suburbs, a new thing - inner was never traditionally best - have 'fancy' schools and attitudes that so called 'middle class' parents want. Its nothing to do with money if you think about it, but money happens to buy that in a world - well - where money talks. Most honest people wouldn't want to have to buy privilege but economics plays a part as the 'best' is a restricted and limited resource - and getting more so. People feel forced to have to pay to maintain their values. In years gone by, people lived more rurally, and or in communities and these values were common currency. Class was an issue, - a kind of demographic pointer - more of what type of work and what education you had, now it's more of a pointer to how 'well you're doing' as everyone is so much more homegenised. Now people work in the city in service cultures and this has given rise to suburbs and snobbery. It's urbanisation that is strangling people. Australia suffers from this.
There are places in Australia where people live the same lifestyle, and it is the lifestyle and values that performs the social cohesion, not anyone's money or class. Suburbs are a blight the world over. This is the real problem. Don't mix up class with behaviour, education or money.
