Is this why there are too many arguments on this Site?r
Oct 22nd 2002, 7:34 pm
#31
Just Joined
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: MD
Posts: 12
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by dotty:
Having followed this Forum for a while and having several immigrant friends I have noticed people seem to go through some very common stages.
1. Anticipation - while waiting for visas. Lots of idealistic thoughts, dreaming about the new country, hard to believe anything can be wrong there.
I move to the US for work from Venezuela and I could not wait to get here.
2. Trepidation - Visas due or received, some concerns now about missing family, finding jobs, leaving home and friends.
I have been already there. Being a holder of a Work Visa in the US, I am used to concerns, missing family, having left home and friends.
3. Holiday mode, arrived and its all new and exciting, novelty of the new life overwhelming and fun.
I am always in a hiloday mode. There's always something new to see and learn everywhere you are or go.
4. Reality, Need a job, finding things becoming more down to earth, day to day niggles set in.
Been there...
5. Disillusion, Suddenly you are the one far away, missing family and contacts, shoe on other foot with currency/ earnings, basic reality that life is not perfect in New Country either.
I am here... can't wait to move to Australia.
6 Acceptance or Rejection, the dream Country is now a reality with all of lifes day to day routines or hassles. People now weigh up if its for them on the realistic day to day life not the dream they once had.
I got used to here... I will get used to there... nothing can be worse than the situation in my own country Venezuela.
Perhaps the above stages, explain why so many like Pommie, Ceri, myself Herman and many others (Stage 6), have very different opinions, from the many here in (Stage 1). Its simple, people are looking at it from very different angles, no doubt all of us were once in Stage one or we would not be here. What do you think?
Having followed this Forum for a while and having several immigrant friends I have noticed people seem to go through some very common stages.
1. Anticipation - while waiting for visas. Lots of idealistic thoughts, dreaming about the new country, hard to believe anything can be wrong there.
I move to the US for work from Venezuela and I could not wait to get here.
2. Trepidation - Visas due or received, some concerns now about missing family, finding jobs, leaving home and friends.
I have been already there. Being a holder of a Work Visa in the US, I am used to concerns, missing family, having left home and friends.
3. Holiday mode, arrived and its all new and exciting, novelty of the new life overwhelming and fun.
I am always in a hiloday mode. There's always something new to see and learn everywhere you are or go.
4. Reality, Need a job, finding things becoming more down to earth, day to day niggles set in.
Been there...
5. Disillusion, Suddenly you are the one far away, missing family and contacts, shoe on other foot with currency/ earnings, basic reality that life is not perfect in New Country either.
I am here... can't wait to move to Australia.
6 Acceptance or Rejection, the dream Country is now a reality with all of lifes day to day routines or hassles. People now weigh up if its for them on the realistic day to day life not the dream they once had.
I got used to here... I will get used to there... nothing can be worse than the situation in my own country Venezuela.
Perhaps the above stages, explain why so many like Pommie, Ceri, myself Herman and many others (Stage 6), have very different opinions, from the many here in (Stage 1). Its simple, people are looking at it from very different angles, no doubt all of us were once in Stage one or we would not be here. What do you think?
Oct 22nd 2002, 7:36 pm
#32
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 455
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by Herman:
Whenever people quote ludicrous house prices for the UK, like '20 times the average salary', they are referring to London and I simply respond with an equally 'selective' sample: by quoting for the lower North shore in Sydney. Average salary in Sydney: $40,000, average price of 3 bed house in lower North Shore: $1 million, ratio: 25 times average salary.
PS. your claim that a 3 bed shack in Sydney costs $600k is way off, that would be in the outer suburbs - a 3 bed shack in a half decent suburb within a reasonable commute of the CBD will now cost you at least $800k!
I am returning to North Bristol in the UK (very close to the Severn bridge to wales) where a 4 bedroom house in a country town within 30 minutes of the city centre costs 220,000 pounds. Thats far more affordable than anything I've seen in Sydney and the build quality of the homes is signficantly better than the crap they build out here. (yes, because the weather's worse but it still means homes in the UK dont need full scale renovation every 15 years like they do here!).
Whenever people quote ludicrous house prices for the UK, like '20 times the average salary', they are referring to London and I simply respond with an equally 'selective' sample: by quoting for the lower North shore in Sydney. Average salary in Sydney: $40,000, average price of 3 bed house in lower North Shore: $1 million, ratio: 25 times average salary.
PS. your claim that a 3 bed shack in Sydney costs $600k is way off, that would be in the outer suburbs - a 3 bed shack in a half decent suburb within a reasonable commute of the CBD will now cost you at least $800k!
I am returning to North Bristol in the UK (very close to the Severn bridge to wales) where a 4 bedroom house in a country town within 30 minutes of the city centre costs 220,000 pounds. Thats far more affordable than anything I've seen in Sydney and the build quality of the homes is signficantly better than the crap they build out here. (yes, because the weather's worse but it still means homes in the UK dont need full scale renovation every 15 years like they do here!).
It is not just London that are demanding ludicrous prices for houses. In Edinburgh the market has gone through the roof. People are moving up to Dundee and commuting thus bumping up the prices here. Although Dundee is not on par with London the average houses seem to be going for around £40,000 more than the asking price. We could not afford to buy a house in the area we were originally renting and had to move across town just to get a house. Then there is the rest of Scotland, so please it's not just London that ordinary average salaried people cannot afford to live in now the rest of the country is through the roof to.
Regards
Ginny
Oct 23rd 2002, 12:26 am
#33
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Perth Arse end of the planet
Posts: 7,037
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by Ginny:
Hi there,
It is not just London that are demanding ludicrous prices for houses. In Edinburgh the market has gone through the roof. People are moving up to Dundee and commuting thus bumping up the prices here. Although Dundee is not on par with London the average houses seem to be going for around £40,000 more than the asking price. We could not afford to buy a house in the area we were originally renting and had to move across town just to get a house. Then there is the rest of Scotland, so please it's not just London that ordinary average salaried people cannot afford to live in now the rest of the country is through the roof to.
Regards
Ginny
Hi there,
It is not just London that are demanding ludicrous prices for houses. In Edinburgh the market has gone through the roof. People are moving up to Dundee and commuting thus bumping up the prices here. Although Dundee is not on par with London the average houses seem to be going for around £40,000 more than the asking price. We could not afford to buy a house in the area we were originally renting and had to move across town just to get a house. Then there is the rest of Scotland, so please it's not just London that ordinary average salaried people cannot afford to live in now the rest of the country is through the roof to.
Regards
Ginny
Whinge , whinge has it not soaked in yet ?house prices are linked to income low incomes low house prices .Banks will only lend on income , there lots of areas in Perth WA that are beyond the average wage earner .My brother inlaw in Fife paid his home off in 7 years not a bad area has views of Edinburgh .Get on with your life and get real there is no free ride anywhere in the world , moaning about house prices has gone on since the the first mud hut was built.
Oct 23rd 2002, 3:46 am
#34
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: B.c Canada
Posts: 910
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by dotty:
Having followed this Forum for a while and having several immigrant friends I have noticed people seem to go through some very common stages.
1. Anticipation - while waiting for visas. Lots of idealistic thoughts, dreaming about the new country, hard to believe anything can be wrong there.
2. Trepidation - Visas due or received, some concerns now about missing family, finding jobs, leaving home and friends.
3. Holiday mode, arrived and its all new and exciting, novelty of the new life overwhelming and fun.
4. Reality, Need a job, finding things becoming more down to earth, day to day niggles set in.
5. Disillusion, Suddenly you are the one far away, missing family and contacts, shoe on other foot with currency/ earnings, basic reality that life is not perfect in New Country either.
6 Acceptance or Rejection, the dream Country is now a reality with all of lifes day to day routines or hassles. People now weigh up if its for them on the realistic day to day life not the dream they once had.
Perhaps the above stages, explain why so many like Pommie, Ceri, myself Herman and many others (Stage 6), have very different opinions, from the many here in (Stage 1). Its simple, people are looking at it from very different angles, no doubt all of us were once in Stage one or we would not be here. What do you think?
Having followed this Forum for a while and having several immigrant friends I have noticed people seem to go through some very common stages.
1. Anticipation - while waiting for visas. Lots of idealistic thoughts, dreaming about the new country, hard to believe anything can be wrong there.
2. Trepidation - Visas due or received, some concerns now about missing family, finding jobs, leaving home and friends.
3. Holiday mode, arrived and its all new and exciting, novelty of the new life overwhelming and fun.
4. Reality, Need a job, finding things becoming more down to earth, day to day niggles set in.
5. Disillusion, Suddenly you are the one far away, missing family and contacts, shoe on other foot with currency/ earnings, basic reality that life is not perfect in New Country either.
6 Acceptance or Rejection, the dream Country is now a reality with all of lifes day to day routines or hassles. People now weigh up if its for them on the realistic day to day life not the dream they once had.
Perhaps the above stages, explain why so many like Pommie, Ceri, myself Herman and many others (Stage 6), have very different opinions, from the many here in (Stage 1). Its simple, people are looking at it from very different angles, no doubt all of us were once in Stage one or we would not be here. What do you think?
I was wandering to get to Canada you have to have 75 points is it the same foe Australia ??????
Oct 23rd 2002, 5:01 am
#35
Senior member
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Paris
Posts: 835
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by pommie bastard:
Whinge , whinge has it not soaked in yet ?house prices are linked to income low incomes low house prices .Banks will only lend on income , there lots of areas in Perth WA that are beyond the average wage earner .My brother inlaw in Fife paid his home off in 7 years not a bad area has views of Edinburgh .Get on with your life and get real there is no free ride anywhere in the world , moaning about house prices has gone on since the the first mud hut was built.
Whinge , whinge has it not soaked in yet ?house prices are linked to income low incomes low house prices .Banks will only lend on income , there lots of areas in Perth WA that are beyond the average wage earner .My brother inlaw in Fife paid his home off in 7 years not a bad area has views of Edinburgh .Get on with your life and get real there is no free ride anywhere in the world , moaning about house prices has gone on since the the first mud hut was built.
PS. anyone ever heard of purchasing power parity theory? Never mind.
Oct 23rd 2002, 5:09 am
#36
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,613
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by Herman:
People on this forum never seem to quite make the link between house prices, local salaries and the simple demand and supply equation. There is always a reason why house prices cost more in some areas than others, Australia included. Why is it that a house in Sydney costs $1 million yet the equivalent in Perth costs $300k? Possibly something to do with the number of people actually wanting to live there? Why do people want to live there? Jobs perhaps? Maybe because its a desirable place to live? Hmm, really have to give that some thought perhaps.......
PS. anyone ever heard of purchasing power parity theory? Never mind.
People on this forum never seem to quite make the link between house prices, local salaries and the simple demand and supply equation. There is always a reason why house prices cost more in some areas than others, Australia included. Why is it that a house in Sydney costs $1 million yet the equivalent in Perth costs $300k? Possibly something to do with the number of people actually wanting to live there? Why do people want to live there? Jobs perhaps? Maybe because its a desirable place to live? Hmm, really have to give that some thought perhaps.......
PS. anyone ever heard of purchasing power parity theory? Never mind.
Oct 23rd 2002, 5:45 am
#37
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Dream life UK....
Posts: 2,912
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by Herman:
People on this forum never seem to quite make the link between house prices, local salaries and the simple demand and supply equation. There is always a reason why house prices cost more in some areas than others, Australia included. Why is it that a house in Sydney costs $1 million yet the equivalent in Perth costs $300k? Possibly something to do with the number of people actually wanting to live there? Why do people want to live there? Jobs perhaps? Maybe because its a desirable place to live? Hmm, really have to give that some thought perhaps.......
PS. anyone ever heard of purchasing power parity theory? Never mind.
People on this forum never seem to quite make the link between house prices, local salaries and the simple demand and supply equation. There is always a reason why house prices cost more in some areas than others, Australia included. Why is it that a house in Sydney costs $1 million yet the equivalent in Perth costs $300k? Possibly something to do with the number of people actually wanting to live there? Why do people want to live there? Jobs perhaps? Maybe because its a desirable place to live? Hmm, really have to give that some thought perhaps.......
PS. anyone ever heard of purchasing power parity theory? Never mind.
Oct 23rd 2002, 5:55 am
#38
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Perth Arse end of the planet
Posts: 7,037
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by Herman:
People on this forum never seem to quite make the link between house prices, local salaries and the simple demand and supply equation. There is always a reason why house prices cost more in some areas than others, Australia included. Why is it that a house in Sydney costs $1 million yet the equivalent in Perth costs $300k? Possibly something to do with the number of people actually wanting to live there? Why do people want to live there? Jobs perhaps? Maybe because its a desirable place to live? Hmm, really have to give that some thought perhaps.......
PS. anyone ever heard of purchasing power parity theory? Never mind.
People on this forum never seem to quite make the link between house prices, local salaries and the simple demand and supply equation. There is always a reason why house prices cost more in some areas than others, Australia included. Why is it that a house in Sydney costs $1 million yet the equivalent in Perth costs $300k? Possibly something to do with the number of people actually wanting to live there? Why do people want to live there? Jobs perhaps? Maybe because its a desirable place to live? Hmm, really have to give that some thought perhaps.......
PS. anyone ever heard of purchasing power parity theory? Never mind.
Oct 23rd 2002, 7:33 am
#39
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 163
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by Herman:
People on this forum never seem to quite make the link between house prices, local salaries and the simple demand and supply equation. There is always a reason why house prices cost more in some areas than others, Australia included. Why is it that a house in Sydney costs $1 million yet the equivalent in Perth costs $300k? Possibly something to do with the number of people actually wanting to live there? Why do people want to live there? Jobs perhaps? Maybe because its a desirable place to live? Hmm, really have to give that some thought perhaps.......
PS. anyone ever heard of purchasing power parity theory? Never mind.
People on this forum never seem to quite make the link between house prices, local salaries and the simple demand and supply equation. There is always a reason why house prices cost more in some areas than others, Australia included. Why is it that a house in Sydney costs $1 million yet the equivalent in Perth costs $300k? Possibly something to do with the number of people actually wanting to live there? Why do people want to live there? Jobs perhaps? Maybe because its a desirable place to live? Hmm, really have to give that some thought perhaps.......
PS. anyone ever heard of purchasing power parity theory? Never mind.
But then like all 'good' economists, you assume everything else remains equal and ignore all the other reasons for moving. For some people (PB) Perth is boring and full of idiots. For me (a cultural philistine) it's great. Perhaps ignorance really is bliss??
DPR
DPR
Oct 23rd 2002, 7:38 am
#40
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Perth Arse end of the planet
Posts: 7,037
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by dpr21:
Spot on Herman. Have you yet won the Nobel Prize for Economics you patronising ....? PPP Theory/Big Mac Index or whatever, if a house in Perth costs 300/1000 of that in Sydney but salaries are, for arguement's sake 75% of the Sydney equivalent, then you're better off in Perth (by a factor greater than 2 in this case) - Ignoring tax which makes Perth, in this scenario, even better.
But then like all 'good' economists, you assume everything else remains equal and ignore all the other reasons for moving. For some people (PB) Perth is boring and full of idiots. For me (a cultural philistine) it's great. Perhaps ignorance really is bliss??
DPR
DPR
Spot on Herman. Have you yet won the Nobel Prize for Economics you patronising ....? PPP Theory/Big Mac Index or whatever, if a house in Perth costs 300/1000 of that in Sydney but salaries are, for arguement's sake 75% of the Sydney equivalent, then you're better off in Perth (by a factor greater than 2 in this case) - Ignoring tax which makes Perth, in this scenario, even better.
But then like all 'good' economists, you assume everything else remains equal and ignore all the other reasons for moving. For some people (PB) Perth is boring and full of idiots. For me (a cultural philistine) it's great. Perhaps ignorance really is bliss??
DPR
DPR
Oct 23rd 2002, 7:46 am
#41
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 163
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by pommie bastard:
Perth also has poor levels of pay and more unemployment that other states , and it also has areas no one on this site could afford to buy into but keep dreaming.
Perth also has poor levels of pay and more unemployment that other states , and it also has areas no one on this site could afford to buy into but keep dreaming.
DPR
Oct 23rd 2002, 7:53 am
#42
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Perth Arse end of the planet
Posts: 7,037
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by dpr21:
PB, what are you on? For the Nth time you've completely missed the point.
DPR
PB, what are you on? For the Nth time you've completely missed the point.
DPR
Oct 23rd 2002, 8:07 am
#43
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 163
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by pommie bastard:
The point is the guys right , Perth is a hick town in the middle of nowhere .Sidney is a World Capital City .The people who move to Perth are not the high earners who flock to Sidney , location is everything ask Londoners.
The point is the guys right , Perth is a hick town in the middle of nowhere .Sidney is a World Capital City .The people who move to Perth are not the high earners who flock to Sidney , location is everything ask Londoners.
DPR
Oct 23rd 2002, 8:18 am
#44
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Perth Arse end of the planet
Posts: 7,037
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Originally posted by dpr21:
PB, has it occurred to you that whether or not Perth is a hick town, some people prefer to live in hick towns rather than 'World Capital Cities'? Furthermore there are people like myself who voluntarily choose to forego high earnings in order to work and live differently? That doesn't make me, or others like me failures. When I earned a (relative) fortune, I was completely miserable even with my 'toys'. I earn less, but enjoy life far more now.
DPR
PB, has it occurred to you that whether or not Perth is a hick town, some people prefer to live in hick towns rather than 'World Capital Cities'? Furthermore there are people like myself who voluntarily choose to forego high earnings in order to work and live differently? That doesn't make me, or others like me failures. When I earned a (relative) fortune, I was completely miserable even with my 'toys'. I earn less, but enjoy life far more now.
DPR
Oct 23rd 2002, 8:32 am
#45
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Mansion in Padbury
Posts: 804
Re: Too Many Arguments read this.
Thanks DPR
As a Perth resident perhaps you could spare us the time to tell us about your life in Perth- things you enjoy etc etc.
I think this would really help as some people i notice are actually getting so put off by this site they are thinking of reversing their decision. I would personally HATE to have it on my consience (PB) but each to their own. Truth is great, but pointless information is both dangerous and cruel. Dont forget all you people in Oz- you may not like it but many will. Please do not put people off. This site is for advice and help. Please remember that.
As a Perth resident perhaps you could spare us the time to tell us about your life in Perth- things you enjoy etc etc.
I think this would really help as some people i notice are actually getting so put off by this site they are thinking of reversing their decision. I would personally HATE to have it on my consience (PB) but each to their own. Truth is great, but pointless information is both dangerous and cruel. Dont forget all you people in Oz- you may not like it but many will. Please do not put people off. This site is for advice and help. Please remember that.