Family of 3

I've read loads of threads about secondary schools NOR. The general consensus seems to be that they're awful (don't jump down my throat, I don't know if that's true!).

But the primary schools, which feed into these schools, all seem to be OK.

So why are the secondary schools so bad, given that the same kids who go to the good primary schools then go to the bad secondary schools.

Do most "nice" kids go private at secondary level so that the demographic changes?

MERCAT

We live in the North and in my opinion the thought of my boys going to Wanneroo High (state school) sent shivers down my spine. My boys go to a private school in Ocean Reef. Not all private schools are expensive. If you have the choice send them private. As I say, this is my opinion only, someone else might say something completely different. It also depends on where in the North you live as I have heard Duncraig is a good school.

petensue

My children are nice and bright and two of them go to the local High school!The school is not that much different from their school in England only with less fights!When I help out in the school canteen it is some of the British children that they have trouble with but they soon sort them out.

There are good and not so good schools just like in the UK.Sue.

Dorothy

Maybe you should ask for opinions from people whose children have actually attended those schools before deciding that they are "bad". My children attend one of the so called bad schools and do quite fine, thank you.

Do people think that just because they pay a lot of money to send their kids to private schools there are no problems with them? From what I've seen there are just as many bullies, gangs, drugs, etc at private schools as the public ones, it's just covered up better.

NKSK version 2

To be honest it isn't just NOR schools. Many state schools in Perth underperform in relation to the socio-economic nature of their catchments.

One of the key reasons is that many parents in NOR suburbs send their children to state primaries but then send them to private secondaries. Not all of the kids who are left in the state schools are disruptive but there is probably a higher concentration of children from parents who don't think that education is something to be valued - and therefore greater problems exist in these schools.

Why do parents take their kids to private schools? Because they perceive that the education experience will be better. Is it better? In many cases probably not.

There are huge issues caused by a lack of teacher accountability in WA (and in Australia generally). Not only that but the entrance qualifications for teacher training are extremely low - meaning that we have the irony of kids who perform poorly in schools for whatever reason going on to teach others in the very same schools in which they scored poorly.

There is also a lack of local autonomy for schools in Australia - there is a big brother approach to education which centralises huge amounts of decision making - including in many instances the recruitment of teachers. I don't believe that this provides a firm foundation for creating excellent schools.

Having said all of that, I am currently more optimistic about education in Australia than at any time in the last 4 years. The move towards greater accountability - pushed by the federal government; significant pay rises for teachers in WA; Julia Gillard puashing a form of Teach Australia and greater numbers of 'gifted' streams occurring in state schools (streaming is always contentious but it's something in which I firmly believe). All of this bodes well for education. There seems to be recognition at last that Australia is slipping behind the rest of the developed world.

Family of 3

I'm not saying they are bad, Dorothy, that's why the bad is "bad". I'm just saying that so many people on here say they are yet the primary schools are OK. I was asking why the change (which is what NKSK has addressed (thanks: interesting points)).

I'm still thinking and researching and trying to get a handle on the whole thing. It'd be very interesting to hear from Aussie parents too. Ironically we're in Singapore at the moment and one reason to move is to get away from a choice of high-pressured local school or very expensive private school. Luckily my boy is only 2.5 so I've some time to plan/think about it.

It's a difficult one. I actually don't necessarily want a high-pressured academic school, I want him to go to a balanced school where he can achieve his potential (whatever that is) but with emphasis on other stuff as well as academics. For example, I think Ocean Reef sounds good (but we're out of catchment) but many on here say otherwise.

Anyway, thanks for your views everyone.

daddyofthree

Surely there are good and bad schools in Aus just like the UK! What really annoys me is when parents suggest that schools should be more accountable. This accountability results in far more admin and lack of trust within the teaching profession but more importantly less time working with the students. Eg on average I work a 55 hour week in the UK and take 2 hours of extra curricular per week! I used to do on average 13 hours of extra curricular a week until the more 'Accountabilty' idea started. My results have improved theoretically but the level of fitness and practical ability is def not as good - yes I teach PE. At least in Aus they teach health!
I'm hoping to find out shortly that the Aus system is better than the UK? A question: Why in the UK do schools teach RE (in ours it's compulsary) but don't necessarily do students sit an examination, yet UK schools are so interested in the health and safety of its students yet don't have a subject on it?

Zenshin

I am not sure if I agree with everything you have said. I am an Aussie who was educated in one of the NOR state high schools but I have been living in the UK for the past 11 years. My daughter has been attending school in the UK this past year and I have to say I have never come across teachers who appear to have very little knowledge about the world as the ones I have met at my daughters school. She loves them but I am loathe to stay in the UK for fear of what it will do for her education. I also have friends who are teachers here and no disrespect to them because I know their hearts are in it but they are not what I call bright and their basic spelling is appalling. The UK system seems to be centred about gearing children up to sit exams constantly rather that trying to actually educate them.

The school I had attended in Perth had a bad name for the few years due to knives etc before I attended but as I am from a family of 6 kids there was not an option for me to go private. I resent that you think that because I did not go to a private school it meant that my parents did not value my education. Fortunately the bad elements left my school although it still had a bad name for some years after. I finished among the top 10% of students in the state as did a few of my friends. My belief is that if parents are involved in helping their child with their education then it won't matter a great deal where their children attend. Parents need to take some responsibility for their child's education and not leave it solely up to the teachers.

I recently returned to Perth to organise our move back and made a visit to several schools to determine where I would like to send my daughter. I visited both state and private schools. I found the reception at the state schools to be more welcoming and forthcoming with what they could offer my daughter as opposed to the private schools who had a very cold attitude and just shoved forms in front of me before they would consider speaking to me. It put me off the private schools that's for sure. I would rather put my money into extra curricular activities or tuition if need be.

daddyofthree

In terms of teaching students to pass exams you are absolutely right Zenshin - most teachers will also agree and I think this also confirms what I was suggesting when we told to be more accountable! I don't think any of us should compare / generalise about certain schools etc the fact is schooling in the UK and Aus are different and we Brits should realise this beforehand. I have worked with about 8 Aussie teachers who have been on supply at my school over the past 18 months and they have been excellent. Great attitude towards life, helping the students to make progress and a willingness to learn other initiatives. Their ICT skills and communication skills have also been very good and I know of at least 2 of them ho did not attend private education.

NKSK version 2

Interesting points.
I didn't say that parents who leave their kids in state schools don't value education.

petensue

Sometimes reading threads about schools I wonder what part of the UK some people are from because some of schools here don't really seem that different from schools in the UK.Most of the other parents at my daughter's high school value their childrens education and some don't have the money to send them to private schools and others don't want to.

I just think you have to do your homework about schools when deciding where to live as just like in the UK there are good and bad.When my oldest was at secondary school in the UK she did well even though another school was thought to be better even though it has a lot of bullying for those that do not have the right trainers,phones etc.Sue.

asprilla

Education seems to be one of those subjects that people will never agree upon. What's considered good by one person, is seen to be bad by another....that's just the nature of the beast.

petensue

Very true.Most parents just want the best for their children and choosing the right school is very important.If only you could choose their friends!Sue.

plantpot

YUP, agree totally...

NKSK version 2

In my opinion, the UK has certainly gone too far in terms of assessment. But Australia is too far at the other end of the spectrum.

I find it worrying that Australia will allow teachers into teacher training courses who 'failed' (for want of a better word) their last two years of schooling and then will not hold them accountable in any way for student progress. Moreover, it is just about impossible to remove a teacher for incompetence in Australia.

The UK has also accepted people onto teaching undergraduate courses with very low A level grades but at least there exists a system of accountability in UK schools and the UK is taking steps to make it easier to remove incompetent teachers.

I wonder how many people reading these boards would be happy about having their child educated at the equivalent to GCSE and A level by a teacher who last studied the subject in question when they were 13...
I never heard of this occurring in my 7 years of teaching in the UK. I have seen it operating in Western Australia on many occasions over the last 4 years.