Why leave Australia?
Aug 14th 2002, 5:23 am
#1
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 150
Why leave Australia?
Hi,
There was thread 'Why go to Australia?'. Anyone cares to tell us (if any), Why leave Australia? (for those who are now living in Australia and thinking of leaving Australia for good.
Rgrds,
Wil
There was thread 'Why go to Australia?'. Anyone cares to tell us (if any), Why leave Australia? (for those who are now living in Australia and thinking of leaving Australia for good.
Rgrds,
Wil
Aug 15th 2002, 5:44 am
#2
Dugongidae Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Wimbledon, England
Posts: 441
Re: Why leave Australia?
Yes well we had decided to return to UK earlier this year but plans got put back. Now looks more likely will be early next year and we will have one last hot Christmas before we go. I’m Brit and wife is Aussie met in London and moved to Oz 4 years ago to Brisbane. I now have citizenship.
It wasn’t a tough decision for me to say go back but harder for my wife to accept. Anybody that knows an Aussie will relate to that as they just love the place and think its perfect. I’m lucky however and my wife understands and also loves London so isn’t too worried about going back. She still expects us to come back again in a few years and that’s probably fine with me – it’s a compromise and that’s what marriage is all about. We both have dual citizenship now so no worries.
The reasons for me were :
1). Prospects here for a professional person are limited. We knew that would be the case but thought it would be offset by slower pace of life etc etc
2). Unfortunately our experience here is that employers are more demanding as unemployment is high so lots of competition for jobs. It’s an employers market like Uk was in most of the 90’s.
3). Consequently, hours are very long (min 37.5 to 40 hours per week but average 50 to 60 hours in my experience (finance industry)), holidays are short if taken at all (4 weeks paid leave but has to be accrued to use so really no leave in the first year as has to be accrued first). Few benefits, high taxes for middle income earners and the less said about the inflexible compulsory super (pension) schemes the better.
4). Aussie business is very mate orientated. Local knowledge is king and skills and experiences come a distant second. My experience is bosses here tend to surround themselves with doting sycophants and you were either in the circle or out but more likely out particularly if you were a migrant or hadn’t grown up / worked with them for the last 15 / 20 years !
5). Daylight is in short supply in Brisbane and working long hours means that for 10 months of the year you rarely arrive home when it is not dark. It gets light here very very early but that’s not really helpful if you work office hours as you tend to be sleeping for the first 2/3 hours of daylight ! Don’t ask why they cant have daylight savings here it’s a long story. People say in UK you suffer in the Winter with the short days but here it like that most of the year.
6). As a working couple in London everything was available to support your lifestyle. Supermarkets opened 24 hours a day, shops traded 7 days a week, restaurants and bars served food late into the evening, gyms sports clubs pools all opened late at night, tradesmen could be obtained for emergencies at any time at huge cost but still could be obtained !! Brisbane seems to be set up to ensure the maximum inconvenience to working professionals. Shops shut on Sunday (although that changed last week but too late to impact our decision), supermarkets shut early, our local pool and gym shuts at 7.30, choice is limited, fruit and vegetables are highly seasonal and forget trying to arrange a tradesperson to call outside 9 to 4 weekdays or even 2 on Friday as they all knock off early to go down the pub ! If you’re a tradesman I reckon this is a good place to be as they seem to only work in the morning.
I didn’t move to Oz because I thought it would be better than UK – I had traveled here a few times before and knew that it lagged behind in many ways. The thing that did appeal was the simpler way of life, great weather in Brisbane and the exchange rate 3 pounds to 1 at that time meant that we could exchange our tiny 2 bedroom house in SW London with mortgage and purchase a lovely big house with pool outright. With no mortgage the lower salary would be more than offset and in terms of disposable income we would be ahead. That worked out as planned and we have enjoyed materially a very comfortable existence here albeit missing a few of the conveniences of home.
But it creeps up on you and after 4 years start you get bored with the place. The beaches are nice but we hardly visit them anymore particularly in Winter when they are freezing cold and in Summer when you get burnt. We have seen a lot of the country and region and there’s only so many times you can visit Sydney and Melbourne. There are some more places we plan to go to before we leave but there’s few places here I would want to visit again having seen it once. NZ was great (although would'nt want to ever live there) Perth was nice and Margaret River area was a favorite. Also strangely I like the Gold Coast despite it being tacky and the foods not great as it seems to have a lot more life than other parts of Australia and I guess because of the tourists it is more international and less Australian.
A good example is with the sport which is in abundance but its not the same when you don’t care about the teams playing. The world cup really bought it home to me as I hadn’t seen England play for over 3 years (never shown here) and you forget what it is like to really care about the outcome of a match. Watching the Wallabies get humped by the Kiwis has it’s moments but for me I would give my right arm at this time to watch England hump the French in the six nations or even the French hump England as long as I was sitting in a great pub whilst watching it. Don’t expect to come here and easily maintain your interests without spending long hours on the internet reading news sites it is very isolated in that respect and little coverage of non-major overseas sporting or any events. The quality of the media (the ABC excluded) is very poor and coverage tends to be very ozified with major stories like ozzie gets bitten by a shark, ozzies are the best in the world at this, its official ozzies are meglomaniacs etc etc. It becomes tiring after a while.
I also miss the humor and tolerance of London. Ozzie humor can be funny in small doses but day to day it tends to be sarcy, taking digs and wind ups. The ozzies seem to take everything so seriously and seem very pedantic on the most insignificant details. I have found a few laid back ozzies but most seem to be working too hard these days to make a living and keeping a roof over their heads. There’s also the real matcho man thing going on so you have to take the piss out of everybody you like and if you don’t stay for a beer after work expect to be ostracized (or is that Oztracized as they seem to specialize in it). It’s a very conformist place and I found little acceptance for any differing views. Its also very unfriendly and it amazes me how people that cannot stand each other will force themselves to drink together after work as they cannot be seen to not do so.
I am sorry to be negative but my work experiences here have been extremely poor. I laugh when I hear Aussies say they give everyone a fair go as that is just not true and I have experienced it not only first hand but seen countless other examples. No doubt loads of Aussies that frequent this site (don’t know why they do ? although I’ve noticed most seem to have a web service to promote or a migration agency business to drum up business for !) will now say its all my fault but that is far from true. I have been reasonably successful here and been promoted etc etc I work hard and am happy to do it and I enjoy my work but unfortunately for me working here is just made too difficult by the Aussies. You spend so much of your life at work and life’s too short to have to worry about these things.
As for all those people that say you cannot go back well I am here to say you can. We purchased a block of land here in Brisbane nearly 3 years ago and built a lovely house over looking the bay. We have just sold it and made 50% profit which equates to annual house price increase of nearly 15% compound. The dollar was rising nicely until the US setbacks last month but if things calm down and the world gets back on track you should find the Aussie strengthen again and if the Brits keep the interest rates on hold and then have a euro referendum 2.50 could be possible again particularly if the oz interest rates go up quickly later this year which is a possibility. If you ride the cycle correctly you can make both ways - we exchanged at an average rate of 2.85 and if we can wait long enough for 2.50 we are ahead. Move to London and hopefully pick up a rental property at a knock down price (!!!) and it all starts over again. House prices have risen since we left but as explained here so have prices in Oz and get the rate right and it all evens out.
To all those people planning to come here don’t let anybody put you off as everybody is different. In all I have enjoyed it here but for me the working environment is poor and there isn’t enough to do otherwise to compensate for having to suffer that. I certainly wouldn’t give away the experience of living here and owning the huge house with pool has been great. Compared to London we have so much space here but the novelty wears off and ironically we are just as frustrated with our noisy neighbours here as we were in UK despite having ¼ acre block which is not that big once you build the size of house you build here.
I am even open to the idea of coming back although next time we would look to have enough spare cash to not have to work. Hopefully those London house prices and strong pound will work in our favor again in the future and help us to achieve that – I honestly think Oz is a good place to retire to if you have enough cash to be able to travel and not be stuck here all the time. The down side in my eyes is the work environment is very dated compared to UK, salaries are lower and taxes higher, not enough day light, less to do, less choice less everything. Good place if you are an aussie but to much of a compromise for me and happy to be going home now.
It wasn’t a tough decision for me to say go back but harder for my wife to accept. Anybody that knows an Aussie will relate to that as they just love the place and think its perfect. I’m lucky however and my wife understands and also loves London so isn’t too worried about going back. She still expects us to come back again in a few years and that’s probably fine with me – it’s a compromise and that’s what marriage is all about. We both have dual citizenship now so no worries.
The reasons for me were :
1). Prospects here for a professional person are limited. We knew that would be the case but thought it would be offset by slower pace of life etc etc
2). Unfortunately our experience here is that employers are more demanding as unemployment is high so lots of competition for jobs. It’s an employers market like Uk was in most of the 90’s.
3). Consequently, hours are very long (min 37.5 to 40 hours per week but average 50 to 60 hours in my experience (finance industry)), holidays are short if taken at all (4 weeks paid leave but has to be accrued to use so really no leave in the first year as has to be accrued first). Few benefits, high taxes for middle income earners and the less said about the inflexible compulsory super (pension) schemes the better.
4). Aussie business is very mate orientated. Local knowledge is king and skills and experiences come a distant second. My experience is bosses here tend to surround themselves with doting sycophants and you were either in the circle or out but more likely out particularly if you were a migrant or hadn’t grown up / worked with them for the last 15 / 20 years !
5). Daylight is in short supply in Brisbane and working long hours means that for 10 months of the year you rarely arrive home when it is not dark. It gets light here very very early but that’s not really helpful if you work office hours as you tend to be sleeping for the first 2/3 hours of daylight ! Don’t ask why they cant have daylight savings here it’s a long story. People say in UK you suffer in the Winter with the short days but here it like that most of the year.
6). As a working couple in London everything was available to support your lifestyle. Supermarkets opened 24 hours a day, shops traded 7 days a week, restaurants and bars served food late into the evening, gyms sports clubs pools all opened late at night, tradesmen could be obtained for emergencies at any time at huge cost but still could be obtained !! Brisbane seems to be set up to ensure the maximum inconvenience to working professionals. Shops shut on Sunday (although that changed last week but too late to impact our decision), supermarkets shut early, our local pool and gym shuts at 7.30, choice is limited, fruit and vegetables are highly seasonal and forget trying to arrange a tradesperson to call outside 9 to 4 weekdays or even 2 on Friday as they all knock off early to go down the pub ! If you’re a tradesman I reckon this is a good place to be as they seem to only work in the morning.
I didn’t move to Oz because I thought it would be better than UK – I had traveled here a few times before and knew that it lagged behind in many ways. The thing that did appeal was the simpler way of life, great weather in Brisbane and the exchange rate 3 pounds to 1 at that time meant that we could exchange our tiny 2 bedroom house in SW London with mortgage and purchase a lovely big house with pool outright. With no mortgage the lower salary would be more than offset and in terms of disposable income we would be ahead. That worked out as planned and we have enjoyed materially a very comfortable existence here albeit missing a few of the conveniences of home.
But it creeps up on you and after 4 years start you get bored with the place. The beaches are nice but we hardly visit them anymore particularly in Winter when they are freezing cold and in Summer when you get burnt. We have seen a lot of the country and region and there’s only so many times you can visit Sydney and Melbourne. There are some more places we plan to go to before we leave but there’s few places here I would want to visit again having seen it once. NZ was great (although would'nt want to ever live there) Perth was nice and Margaret River area was a favorite. Also strangely I like the Gold Coast despite it being tacky and the foods not great as it seems to have a lot more life than other parts of Australia and I guess because of the tourists it is more international and less Australian.
A good example is with the sport which is in abundance but its not the same when you don’t care about the teams playing. The world cup really bought it home to me as I hadn’t seen England play for over 3 years (never shown here) and you forget what it is like to really care about the outcome of a match. Watching the Wallabies get humped by the Kiwis has it’s moments but for me I would give my right arm at this time to watch England hump the French in the six nations or even the French hump England as long as I was sitting in a great pub whilst watching it. Don’t expect to come here and easily maintain your interests without spending long hours on the internet reading news sites it is very isolated in that respect and little coverage of non-major overseas sporting or any events. The quality of the media (the ABC excluded) is very poor and coverage tends to be very ozified with major stories like ozzie gets bitten by a shark, ozzies are the best in the world at this, its official ozzies are meglomaniacs etc etc. It becomes tiring after a while.
I also miss the humor and tolerance of London. Ozzie humor can be funny in small doses but day to day it tends to be sarcy, taking digs and wind ups. The ozzies seem to take everything so seriously and seem very pedantic on the most insignificant details. I have found a few laid back ozzies but most seem to be working too hard these days to make a living and keeping a roof over their heads. There’s also the real matcho man thing going on so you have to take the piss out of everybody you like and if you don’t stay for a beer after work expect to be ostracized (or is that Oztracized as they seem to specialize in it). It’s a very conformist place and I found little acceptance for any differing views. Its also very unfriendly and it amazes me how people that cannot stand each other will force themselves to drink together after work as they cannot be seen to not do so.
I am sorry to be negative but my work experiences here have been extremely poor. I laugh when I hear Aussies say they give everyone a fair go as that is just not true and I have experienced it not only first hand but seen countless other examples. No doubt loads of Aussies that frequent this site (don’t know why they do ? although I’ve noticed most seem to have a web service to promote or a migration agency business to drum up business for !) will now say its all my fault but that is far from true. I have been reasonably successful here and been promoted etc etc I work hard and am happy to do it and I enjoy my work but unfortunately for me working here is just made too difficult by the Aussies. You spend so much of your life at work and life’s too short to have to worry about these things.
As for all those people that say you cannot go back well I am here to say you can. We purchased a block of land here in Brisbane nearly 3 years ago and built a lovely house over looking the bay. We have just sold it and made 50% profit which equates to annual house price increase of nearly 15% compound. The dollar was rising nicely until the US setbacks last month but if things calm down and the world gets back on track you should find the Aussie strengthen again and if the Brits keep the interest rates on hold and then have a euro referendum 2.50 could be possible again particularly if the oz interest rates go up quickly later this year which is a possibility. If you ride the cycle correctly you can make both ways - we exchanged at an average rate of 2.85 and if we can wait long enough for 2.50 we are ahead. Move to London and hopefully pick up a rental property at a knock down price (!!!) and it all starts over again. House prices have risen since we left but as explained here so have prices in Oz and get the rate right and it all evens out.
To all those people planning to come here don’t let anybody put you off as everybody is different. In all I have enjoyed it here but for me the working environment is poor and there isn’t enough to do otherwise to compensate for having to suffer that. I certainly wouldn’t give away the experience of living here and owning the huge house with pool has been great. Compared to London we have so much space here but the novelty wears off and ironically we are just as frustrated with our noisy neighbours here as we were in UK despite having ¼ acre block which is not that big once you build the size of house you build here.
I am even open to the idea of coming back although next time we would look to have enough spare cash to not have to work. Hopefully those London house prices and strong pound will work in our favor again in the future and help us to achieve that – I honestly think Oz is a good place to retire to if you have enough cash to be able to travel and not be stuck here all the time. The down side in my eyes is the work environment is very dated compared to UK, salaries are lower and taxes higher, not enough day light, less to do, less choice less everything. Good place if you are an aussie but to much of a compromise for me and happy to be going home now.
Aug 15th 2002, 6:10 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why leave Australia?
Dugongs
Having been here for 2 years and come from London and probably working in a similar environment to you, I could not have put it better myself. Working here (Sydney) is rather like being in a time warp and the "boys" club about town is equally as true here. Despite the so called laid back attitude I find Aussies redefine the word 'anal' for me - you need to apply for a form to enable you to complete another form which itself is an application for a form of some description. Its an administrators heaven this place!
The 'follower' mentality is beginning to bug me - its too risky to try anything new here. They wait and see if it works in the US and the UK and adopt it here - never ever take a professional risk! Whenever the guys here are faced with a new client problem they fire emails off to US and UK colleagues to find out what they would do. The reports we produce for clients here are based on a structure and methodology invented in London 10 years ago, and abandoned in London 3 years ago.
I am not having a go at work practices here out of bitterness - I too am doing very well and was promoted after just 6 months in the country (primarily because myself and another from London helped to drag work practices out of the 1980's and into the 1990's - just another decade of catching up required!). At the moment I am trying to let it wash over me but I'm sure in a couple more years it will really start to get me down and I'll be pining for a bit of London innovation and initiative. I just dont understand why they are like that here - maybe its arrogance, maybe its fear of litigation, maybe its because the education system creates passive clones and not innovative thinkers? Who knows.
Having been here for 2 years and come from London and probably working in a similar environment to you, I could not have put it better myself. Working here (Sydney) is rather like being in a time warp and the "boys" club about town is equally as true here. Despite the so called laid back attitude I find Aussies redefine the word 'anal' for me - you need to apply for a form to enable you to complete another form which itself is an application for a form of some description. Its an administrators heaven this place!
The 'follower' mentality is beginning to bug me - its too risky to try anything new here. They wait and see if it works in the US and the UK and adopt it here - never ever take a professional risk! Whenever the guys here are faced with a new client problem they fire emails off to US and UK colleagues to find out what they would do. The reports we produce for clients here are based on a structure and methodology invented in London 10 years ago, and abandoned in London 3 years ago.
I am not having a go at work practices here out of bitterness - I too am doing very well and was promoted after just 6 months in the country (primarily because myself and another from London helped to drag work practices out of the 1980's and into the 1990's - just another decade of catching up required!). At the moment I am trying to let it wash over me but I'm sure in a couple more years it will really start to get me down and I'll be pining for a bit of London innovation and initiative. I just dont understand why they are like that here - maybe its arrogance, maybe its fear of litigation, maybe its because the education system creates passive clones and not innovative thinkers? Who knows.
Aug 15th 2002, 6:31 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why leave Australia?
Forgot to mention - Dugongs comments about 'fair go' are correct.
My partner is Czech and we were stunned by racism she experienced when we first arrived - a huge contrast to her experiences in London. Despite her word perfect English, full work rights on a 4 year 457 visa and a fantastic resume, she kept on getting rejected for jobs that were well beneath her. She hit a good spell after a couple of months and had 5 interviews in a row (one of which turned into work). She decided to ask the other 4 why they had turned her down and 2 of them told her it was nothing personal - they wanted to give the job to an Australian citizen. I could'nt have been angrier and she had to beg me not to call them up and give them a 'fair go'!
It took my step sister 5 years on the Gold Coast before she could get a job equivalent to the one she did in the UK before emigrating. 5 years and dozens and dozens of applications to Brisbane businesses.
Fair go? My ass!
My partner is Czech and we were stunned by racism she experienced when we first arrived - a huge contrast to her experiences in London. Despite her word perfect English, full work rights on a 4 year 457 visa and a fantastic resume, she kept on getting rejected for jobs that were well beneath her. She hit a good spell after a couple of months and had 5 interviews in a row (one of which turned into work). She decided to ask the other 4 why they had turned her down and 2 of them told her it was nothing personal - they wanted to give the job to an Australian citizen. I could'nt have been angrier and she had to beg me not to call them up and give them a 'fair go'!
It took my step sister 5 years on the Gold Coast before she could get a job equivalent to the one she did in the UK before emigrating. 5 years and dozens and dozens of applications to Brisbane businesses.
Fair go? My ass!
Aug 15th 2002, 7:01 am
#5
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Perth Arse end of the planet
Posts: 7,037
Re: Why leave Australia?
Well hard to follow that dungongs you summed it up for most of us who are on the way back.Without rubbishing Australia although I am sure the dreamers will complain .For myself I conned myself this was for me and all the down sides to the place where minor but you wake up to the fact life is to short to live in a country where only sport counts and everything else is second rate.
The main sticking point is lack of forward thinking employers and good companies who value the people that work for them .The attitute seems to be take it or leave it the next boat load of mugs will be arriving soon, so conditions and wages are poor.Sick pay amounts to 2 weeks a year reguardless of job or service , can mean you lose holiday to cover any extra time.Things you take for granted in UK are on a user pays bases here , even old age pension is means tested not forgeting that taxes are highest in the western world here for PAYE.Money aside I am bored of the place there is no spark here no go geters no society to speak of,if you come here to escape the rat race forget get it ,the rats here still race only usually come last.Any good luck to all you dreamers hope it does not become a nightmare.
The main sticking point is lack of forward thinking employers and good companies who value the people that work for them .The attitute seems to be take it or leave it the next boat load of mugs will be arriving soon, so conditions and wages are poor.Sick pay amounts to 2 weeks a year reguardless of job or service , can mean you lose holiday to cover any extra time.Things you take for granted in UK are on a user pays bases here , even old age pension is means tested not forgeting that taxes are highest in the western world here for PAYE.Money aside I am bored of the place there is no spark here no go geters no society to speak of,if you come here to escape the rat race forget get it ,the rats here still race only usually come last.Any good luck to all you dreamers hope it does not become a nightmare.
Aug 15th 2002, 7:28 am
#6
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 117
Re: Why leave Australia?
Would it be worse for Asian?
Any Asian who lives in Australia reads this forum?
Is Asian treated as second class in Australia?
Any Asian who lives in Australia reads this forum?
Is Asian treated as second class in Australia?
Originally posted by davo:
Forgot to mention - Dugongs comments about 'fair go' are correct.
My partner is Czech and we were stunned by racism she experienced when we first arrived - a huge contrast to her experiences in London. Despite her word perfect English, full work rights on a 4 year 457 visa and a fantastic resume, she kept on getting rejected for jobs that were well beneath her. She hit a good spell after a couple of months and had 5 interviews in a row (one of which turned into work). She decided to ask the other 4 why they had turned her down and 2 of them told her it was nothing personal - they wanted to give the job to an Australian citizen. I could'nt have been angrier and she had to beg me not to call them up and give them a 'fair go'!
It took my step sister 5 years on the Gold Coast before she could get a job equivalent to the one she did in the UK before emigrating. 5 years and dozens and dozens of applications to Brisbane businesses.
Fair go? My ass!
Forgot to mention - Dugongs comments about 'fair go' are correct.
My partner is Czech and we were stunned by racism she experienced when we first arrived - a huge contrast to her experiences in London. Despite her word perfect English, full work rights on a 4 year 457 visa and a fantastic resume, she kept on getting rejected for jobs that were well beneath her. She hit a good spell after a couple of months and had 5 interviews in a row (one of which turned into work). She decided to ask the other 4 why they had turned her down and 2 of them told her it was nothing personal - they wanted to give the job to an Australian citizen. I could'nt have been angrier and she had to beg me not to call them up and give them a 'fair go'!
It took my step sister 5 years on the Gold Coast before she could get a job equivalent to the one she did in the UK before emigrating. 5 years and dozens and dozens of applications to Brisbane businesses.
Fair go? My ass!
Aug 15th 2002, 7:58 am
#7
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 392
Re: Why leave Australia?
I also agree with Dugongs. We have been here 2 years this month and will be returning to the UK after our last summer here for a while. We are still applying for PR though. The hours are longer here and there doesn't seem to be much fun in people here. They all seem to take everything too seriously. The sense of humour isn't my cup of lapsang sushong either. Yes, the weather is brilliant, but when you are stuck in an office all day it doesn't really matter.
Nice place to retire I reckon or spend your lottery winnings.
Nice place to retire I reckon or spend your lottery winnings.
Aug 15th 2002, 8:14 am
#8
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 117
Re: Why leave Australia?
What time is your typical officer hour? You know, what time you usually arrive at your table and what time you leave for home.
Is it because of peer presure that you work longer hour or is it because companies are downsizing and putting more work to existing staff?
Is it because of peer presure that you work longer hour or is it because companies are downsizing and putting more work to existing staff?
Originally posted by onlyme:
I also agree with Dugongs. We have been here 2 years this month and will be returning to the UK after our last summer here for a while. We are still applying for PR though. The hours are longer here and there doesn't seem to be much fun in people here. They all seem to take everything too seriously. The sense of humour isn't my cup of lapsang sushong either. Yes, the weather is brilliant, but when you are stuck in an office all day it doesn't really matter.
Nice place to retire I reckon or spend your lottery winnings.
I also agree with Dugongs. We have been here 2 years this month and will be returning to the UK after our last summer here for a while. We are still applying for PR though. The hours are longer here and there doesn't seem to be much fun in people here. They all seem to take everything too seriously. The sense of humour isn't my cup of lapsang sushong either. Yes, the weather is brilliant, but when you are stuck in an office all day it doesn't really matter.
Nice place to retire I reckon or spend your lottery winnings.
Aug 15th 2002, 9:16 am
#9
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2002
Location: Abroad !
Posts: 223
Re: Why leave Australia?
dugongs,
That was a great post, thanks for taking the time to write it. I'm sure that this is the sort of considered, non-hysterical post people are after when they ask for info on the downside of Aus.
I'm going over in September to try my luck, I'm not going with too many illusions so (hopefully) I won't end up too embittered !
I'm glad you and your wife have both got dual nationality and have the flexibility to come & go as you please. My wife and son are both dual nationals and I am keen to get Aus citizenship after the 2 years so we all have more options.
Although you have come across various "pains in the neck" in Aus, it sounds like you wouldn't be without the experience.
Good luck back in Britain.
GW
That was a great post, thanks for taking the time to write it. I'm sure that this is the sort of considered, non-hysterical post people are after when they ask for info on the downside of Aus.
I'm going over in September to try my luck, I'm not going with too many illusions so (hopefully) I won't end up too embittered !
I'm glad you and your wife have both got dual nationality and have the flexibility to come & go as you please. My wife and son are both dual nationals and I am keen to get Aus citizenship after the 2 years so we all have more options.
Although you have come across various "pains in the neck" in Aus, it sounds like you wouldn't be without the experience.
Good luck back in Britain.
GW
Aug 15th 2002, 10:15 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why leave Australia?
> Why leave Australia?
Because it's full of Australians? :-)
I lived there for 5 years and left for many reasons, one being that the paradise
of Perth (hic mining town posing as a big city!) was a huge disappointment to
me. Another was the heat. A third was that I simply wanted to see the rest of
the world...
Sydney still remains in my mind as one of my favourite cities, but I've not been back
there for 25+ years and I've grown up a little since then! <g>
--
Regards -Terry
Because it's full of Australians? :-)
I lived there for 5 years and left for many reasons, one being that the paradise
of Perth (hic mining town posing as a big city!) was a huge disappointment to
me. Another was the heat. A third was that I simply wanted to see the rest of
the world...
Sydney still remains in my mind as one of my favourite cities, but I've not been back
there for 25+ years and I've grown up a little since then! <g>
--
Regards -Terry
Aug 15th 2002, 10:56 am
#11
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Dream life UK....
Posts: 2,912
Re: Why leave Australia?
How long before the Pommies get in on this post and totally dispute every single thing, every person who has lived in Australia has ever said.???
Aug 15th 2002, 11:08 am
#12
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2002
Location: Abroad !
Posts: 223
Re: Why leave Australia?
dotty,
Read my post thanking dugongs for his well-written and thought out post (and I'm a Pom)
If it makes you feel any better though - "everyone who has contributed to this post is an idiot and Australia is so good they present you with gold-embossed meat pies on arrival"
Thank you
GW
Read my post thanking dugongs for his well-written and thought out post (and I'm a Pom)
If it makes you feel any better though - "everyone who has contributed to this post is an idiot and Australia is so good they present you with gold-embossed meat pies on arrival"
Thank you
GW
Aug 15th 2002, 7:02 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why leave Australia?
Well at least many of the posters have made considered opinions but I did smile about
the comments that "aussies take things too seriously" "aussie business is mate
orientated - networking works" "and the funniest "Daylight is in short supply in
Brisbane really brought a smile to my face" "the beaches are nice but we hardly ever
visit them anymore" but at least you have made a decisive decision and kept your dual
citizenship.......smiles
">
the comments that "aussies take things too seriously" "aussie business is mate
orientated - networking works" "and the funniest "Daylight is in short supply in
Brisbane really brought a smile to my face" "the beaches are nice but we hardly ever
visit them anymore" but at least you have made a decisive decision and kept your dual
citizenship.......smiles
">
Aug 16th 2002, 2:52 am
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why leave Australia?
Thanks for the up-front and honest posts guys - dotty, dugongs and davo.
My wife and I have discussed returning to the UK for mainly two reasons - limited
career choice, and the extreme distance from most of our close relatives - but each
time we sat down and weighed the pros and cons we came to the same conclusion - that
Australia is a much better place to bring up children that the UK.
I was just wondering if any of you had children, and if you do why do think they
would be better off in the UK than Australia?
Regards, AndyH Brisbane.
My wife and I have discussed returning to the UK for mainly two reasons - limited
career choice, and the extreme distance from most of our close relatives - but each
time we sat down and weighed the pros and cons we came to the same conclusion - that
Australia is a much better place to bring up children that the UK.
I was just wondering if any of you had children, and if you do why do think they
would be better off in the UK than Australia?
Regards, AndyH Brisbane.
Aug 16th 2002, 5:17 am
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why leave Australia?
Originally posted by Andrew:
Thanks for the up-front and honest posts guys - dotty, dugongs and davo.
My wife and I have discussed returning to the UK for mainly two reasons - limited
career choice, and the extreme distance from most of our close relatives - but each
time we sat down and weighed the pros and cons we came to the same conclusion - that
Australia is a much better place to bring up children that the UK.
I was just wondering if any of you had children, and if you do why do think they
would be better off in the UK than Australia?
Regards, AndyH Brisbane.
Thanks for the up-front and honest posts guys - dotty, dugongs and davo.
My wife and I have discussed returning to the UK for mainly two reasons - limited
career choice, and the extreme distance from most of our close relatives - but each
time we sat down and weighed the pros and cons we came to the same conclusion - that
Australia is a much better place to bring up children that the UK.
I was just wondering if any of you had children, and if you do why do think they
would be better off in the UK than Australia?
Regards, AndyH Brisbane.
If you know different I'd love to hear it as despite offering some common sense facts about the downside of Australia (primarily to try to help those in fantasy land) we have not yet decided that we are returning to the UK. Our key drivers if we do return are:
Grandparents
Lifetime friends and missing their births/marriages/kids
Education for our kids
Quality of housing we could afford in UK compared to Sydney
My career
Proximity to Europe for trips/hols
Feeling of being on another planet sometimes
British sense of humour and comedy vs anal seriousness of too many Aussies
The key factors that may keep us here are:
Weather
Cafe lifestyle
Ability to find complete isolation for a weekend when desired
Friends - extremely hard to make in Sydney but after a year we are slowly cracking it
Sydney and surrounding areas are fantastic
Happiness of people vs misery in England
Convincing ourselves 24 hours on a plane is a mere hop over the channel
Grandparents (!)
Beaches
For us it always seems to be - what kind of people to we want to be? If we want to be deep, cultured and unselfish people then the obvious move is to return. If we want to be shallow, uncultured and selfish people then the obvious move is to stay. In a nutshell that's our dilemna: deep/cultured/unselfish vs shallow/uncultured/selfish