Why do the English knock England?
Apr 11th 2004, 4:36 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Why do the English knock England?
Hi all, and happy Easter.
I find it interesting how English people keep slagging off England.
We moved to Perth from England almost exactly a year ago. We love it here, and will probably stay here another few years.
Whenever we get a phone call from friends or family in the UK, they always tell us how lucky we are to have gotten out before the country sinks completely into a cesspool of decay and corruption etc.....
I am pleased that they support our decision to move overseas, but I really don't think England is that bad:
1. It has a high standard of living
2. There is not much racial tension, compared to say USA
3.Unlike parts of Ireland, and much of the world, there is religious tolerance
3. There is political stability
4. Unemployment is low
5. The weather does not get as cold as Canada, or as humid as USA
6. It has continued to punch above its weight for hundreds of years.
7. Unlike WA, wherever you are, you can travel less than 50 miles to find a lovely historic town or village.
I love Australia, but you know, England really isn't that bad either.
Cheers,
Mike
I find it interesting how English people keep slagging off England.
We moved to Perth from England almost exactly a year ago. We love it here, and will probably stay here another few years.
Whenever we get a phone call from friends or family in the UK, they always tell us how lucky we are to have gotten out before the country sinks completely into a cesspool of decay and corruption etc.....
I am pleased that they support our decision to move overseas, but I really don't think England is that bad:
1. It has a high standard of living
2. There is not much racial tension, compared to say USA
3.Unlike parts of Ireland, and much of the world, there is religious tolerance
3. There is political stability
4. Unemployment is low
5. The weather does not get as cold as Canada, or as humid as USA
6. It has continued to punch above its weight for hundreds of years.
7. Unlike WA, wherever you are, you can travel less than 50 miles to find a lovely historic town or village.
I love Australia, but you know, England really isn't that bad either.
Cheers,
Mike
Apr 11th 2004, 6:44 am
#2
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,613
I don't disagree with your 'pluses'. But there's a lot more involved when you are assessing quality of life and comparing what you get, country by country, with your savings and work.
1. It's a fairly basic human want to wish to live in a nice sized house wih a decent patch of garden in a pleasant part of the environment. It's hard to get that without a huge wad of cash in the more desirable parts of the UK (say, below the Severn-Wash line). You can get it at reasonabl price (to savings and slog) in many other parts of Europe, Aus and NZ (not to mention USA, Canada).
2. Attitude and outlook: the single thing I detest most about the UK is the general 'feel' of living there. Give me France, Spain, Italy, Australia or NZ any day and probably you could include most European countries in that. The Brits as a people can be very uptight, class-ridden, borng, sour, prosaic, jealous of other people's success or differentness, disliking of children, not laid-back enough, not filled with joie-de-vivre, miserable, small-minded etc. Sure, you can get that anywhere. But the 'feel' of a country reflects these thing pretty well and the UK is a rotten place to live if the attitude and outlook of others is going to impact significantly on your life.
1. It's a fairly basic human want to wish to live in a nice sized house wih a decent patch of garden in a pleasant part of the environment. It's hard to get that without a huge wad of cash in the more desirable parts of the UK (say, below the Severn-Wash line). You can get it at reasonabl price (to savings and slog) in many other parts of Europe, Aus and NZ (not to mention USA, Canada).
2. Attitude and outlook: the single thing I detest most about the UK is the general 'feel' of living there. Give me France, Spain, Italy, Australia or NZ any day and probably you could include most European countries in that. The Brits as a people can be very uptight, class-ridden, borng, sour, prosaic, jealous of other people's success or differentness, disliking of children, not laid-back enough, not filled with joie-de-vivre, miserable, small-minded etc. Sure, you can get that anywhere. But the 'feel' of a country reflects these thing pretty well and the UK is a rotten place to live if the attitude and outlook of others is going to impact significantly on your life.
Apr 11th 2004, 6:50 am
#3
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
I think the hyper critical British press sometimes gives a feeling of impending doom. People then see all the sunshine on the lifestyle shows casing emmigrants moving to Australia and a life in the sun appears very appealing.
I think it takes a move out here for people to realise what they had back home.
I think it takes a move out here for people to realise what they had back home.
Apr 11th 2004, 7:11 am
#4
58.38264% - Extreme Geek
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: The Place To Be
Posts: 2,270
Disaffected Brits....
I think people in the UK just *are* generally disaffected at the moment, and that is what you are seeing.
Why? It's a combination of job insecurity, a culture of very long working hours, crime and fear of crime (and now terrorism too), and mass dissillusionment with the country's political set-up & key players. The war in Iraq has also served to split people strongly into either the pro or anti camps (not going to discuss the whys/wherefores &c here, or I'll be asked to Take It Outside
). None of this is good for the UK as a nation. Even when the Brits won the rugger last year, which I thought was a truly great thing to do, the 'feel good' factor didn't last for long compared to the footie in 1966.
All of this has created a hard core of Brits with little feeling of patriotism, loyalty or belonging, and who can't wait to leave the place (a recent survey cited 55% of people would leave the UK tomorrow if they could - we were surprised it was that few
). Often the desire to emigrate is based on watching one of the many totally unrealistic TV programmes on the lines of 'get a new life out of the UK', and a disaffection with one's lot, rather than a reasoned logical thought process. I suspect this means that often people simply take their disaffectedness with them when they emigrate...
I'm pretty devastated about it. As someone who's lived in the UK a lot & abroad too, I've found that people in all countries like to complain about the weather/the government/work etc but they still have some feeling of wanting to live in that country. In the UK, the negativity's now got so deep in the psyche that it's quite damaging.
Anya.
Why? It's a combination of job insecurity, a culture of very long working hours, crime and fear of crime (and now terrorism too), and mass dissillusionment with the country's political set-up & key players. The war in Iraq has also served to split people strongly into either the pro or anti camps (not going to discuss the whys/wherefores &c here, or I'll be asked to Take It Outside
). None of this is good for the UK as a nation. Even when the Brits won the rugger last year, which I thought was a truly great thing to do, the 'feel good' factor didn't last for long compared to the footie in 1966. All of this has created a hard core of Brits with little feeling of patriotism, loyalty or belonging, and who can't wait to leave the place (a recent survey cited 55% of people would leave the UK tomorrow if they could - we were surprised it was that few
). Often the desire to emigrate is based on watching one of the many totally unrealistic TV programmes on the lines of 'get a new life out of the UK', and a disaffection with one's lot, rather than a reasoned logical thought process. I suspect this means that often people simply take their disaffectedness with them when they emigrate... I'm pretty devastated about it. As someone who's lived in the UK a lot & abroad too, I've found that people in all countries like to complain about the weather/the government/work etc but they still have some feeling of wanting to live in that country. In the UK, the negativity's now got so deep in the psyche that it's quite damaging.
Anya.
Last edited by anya4oz; Apr 11th 2004 at 7:15 am.
Apr 11th 2004, 7:15 am
#5
What's happening dudes?
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Bayside Brisbane
Posts: 20,647
Originally posted by pleasancefamily
2. Attitude and outlook: the single thing I detest most about the UK is the general 'feel' of living there. Give me France, Spain, Italy, Australia or NZ any day and probably you could include most European countries in that. The Brits as a people can be very uptight, class-ridden, borng, sour, prosaic, jealous of other people's success or differentness, disliking of children, not laid-back enough, not filled with joie-de-vivre, miserable, small-minded etc. Sure, you can get that anywhere. But the 'feel' of a country reflects these thing pretty well and the UK is a rotten place to live if the attitude and outlook of others is going to impact significantly on your life.
2. Attitude and outlook: the single thing I detest most about the UK is the general 'feel' of living there. Give me France, Spain, Italy, Australia or NZ any day and probably you could include most European countries in that. The Brits as a people can be very uptight, class-ridden, borng, sour, prosaic, jealous of other people's success or differentness, disliking of children, not laid-back enough, not filled with joie-de-vivre, miserable, small-minded etc. Sure, you can get that anywhere. But the 'feel' of a country reflects these thing pretty well and the UK is a rotten place to live if the attitude and outlook of others is going to impact significantly on your life.
Another reason is that Brits are so insular too. How many times have you been on a foreign holiday and heard Brits complaining because you can't get a bacon buttie for breakfast or egg and chips for dinner? There is a definite air of "If's it not the same as back home, I don't want it". That's why English theme pubs do so well abroad. When I go anywhere, I go there to see a different lifestyle and sample it. :lecture:
Time will tell if the grass is greener on the other side (of the world!) for me but I'm sure as hell going to find out.
Apr 11th 2004, 8:05 am
#6
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Singapore
Posts: 216
Re: Disaffected Brits....
Originally posted by anya4oz
I think people in the UK just *are* generally disaffected at the moment, and that is what you are seeing.
Why? It's a combination of job insecurity, a culture of very long working hours, crime and fear of crime (and now terrorism too), and mass dissillusionment with the country's political set-up & key players. The war in Iraq has also served to split people strongly into either the pro or anti camps (not going to discuss the whys/wherefores &c here, or I'll be asked to Take It Outside ). None of this is good for the UK as a nation. Even when the Brits won the rugger last year, which I thought was a truly great thing to do, the 'feel good' factor didn't last for long compared to the footie in 1966.
All of this has created a hard core of Brits with little feeling of patriotism, loyalty or belonging, and who can't wait to leave the place (a recent survey cited 55% of people would leave the UK tomorrow if they could - we were surprised it was that few ). Often the desire to emigrate is based on watching one of the many totally unrealistic TV programmes on the lines of 'get a new life out of the UK', and a disaffection with one's lot, rather than a reasoned logical thought process. I suspect this means that often people simply take their disaffectedness with them when they emigrate...
I'm pretty devastated about it. As someone who's lived in the UK a lot & abroad too, I've found that people in all countries like to complain about the weather/the government/work etc but they still have some feeling of wanting to live in that country. In the UK, the negativity's now got so deep in the psyche that it's quite damaging.
Anya.
I think people in the UK just *are* generally disaffected at the moment, and that is what you are seeing.
Why? It's a combination of job insecurity, a culture of very long working hours, crime and fear of crime (and now terrorism too), and mass dissillusionment with the country's political set-up & key players. The war in Iraq has also served to split people strongly into either the pro or anti camps (not going to discuss the whys/wherefores &c here, or I'll be asked to Take It Outside
). None of this is good for the UK as a nation. Even when the Brits won the rugger last year, which I thought was a truly great thing to do, the 'feel good' factor didn't last for long compared to the footie in 1966. All of this has created a hard core of Brits with little feeling of patriotism, loyalty or belonging, and who can't wait to leave the place (a recent survey cited 55% of people would leave the UK tomorrow if they could - we were surprised it was that few
). Often the desire to emigrate is based on watching one of the many totally unrealistic TV programmes on the lines of 'get a new life out of the UK', and a disaffection with one's lot, rather than a reasoned logical thought process. I suspect this means that often people simply take their disaffectedness with them when they emigrate... I'm pretty devastated about it. As someone who's lived in the UK a lot & abroad too, I've found that people in all countries like to complain about the weather/the government/work etc but they still have some feeling of wanting to live in that country. In the UK, the negativity's now got so deep in the psyche that it's quite damaging.
Anya.
This all so true!
However, there is more!
I returned to the UK after 12 years in Hong Kong & 1 in Australia, I went back with lots of positive thoughts about the UK and how is wasn't too bad after all!
I lasted about 10 months, then I gave up and left the UK for good! (Back to Hong Kong).
It is very difficult to exactly put your finger on what is wrong with the UK, certainly the weather for 6 months of the year doesn't help, but there was a general feeling of 'Doom & Gloom'.......which eventually caused me to leave!
In fact, on paper at least, the UK is pretty good. Full employment, decent econmony, boombing service industry etc.......so I duno, must be just down to the attitude of the population.
Cheers.
Apr 11th 2004, 8:32 am
#7
NZ or Bust!
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Twickenham
Posts: 132
7. Unlike WA, wherever you are, you can travel less than 50 miles to find a lovely historic town or village.
I was going to post a reply to this that relates to Aboriginal history and its denial.
But couldnt be bothered.
I was going to post a reply to this that relates to Aboriginal history and its denial.
But couldnt be bothered.
Apr 11th 2004, 8:35 am
#8
58.38264% - Extreme Geek
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: The Place To Be
Posts: 2,270
Re: Disaffected Brits....
Originally posted by paddythepilot
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This all so true!
However, there is more!
I returned to the UK after 12 years in Hong Kong & 1 in Australia, I went back with lots of positive thoughts about the UK and how is wasn't too bad after all!
I lasted about 10 months, then I gave up and left the UK for good! (Back to Hong Kong).
It is very difficult to exactly put your finger on what is wrong with the UK, certainly the weather for 6 months of the year doesn't help, but there was a general feeling of 'Doom & Gloom'.......which eventually caused me to leave!
In fact, on paper at least, the UK is pretty good. Full employment, decent econmony, boombing service industry etc.......so I duno, must be just down to the attitude of the population.
Cheers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This all so true!
However, there is more!
I returned to the UK after 12 years in Hong Kong & 1 in Australia, I went back with lots of positive thoughts about the UK and how is wasn't too bad after all!
I lasted about 10 months, then I gave up and left the UK for good! (Back to Hong Kong).
It is very difficult to exactly put your finger on what is wrong with the UK, certainly the weather for 6 months of the year doesn't help, but there was a general feeling of 'Doom & Gloom'.......which eventually caused me to leave!
In fact, on paper at least, the UK is pretty good. Full employment, decent econmony, boombing service industry etc.......so I duno, must be just down to the attitude of the population.
Cheers.
*sigh*
Paddy, bet you noticed the difference after living in Hong Kong - ISTR that people there seem to have a strong sense of national pride. Cool place, isn't it?
Anya.
Apr 11th 2004, 8:38 am
#9
What's happening dudes?
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Bayside Brisbane
Posts: 20,647
Re: Disaffected Brits....
Originally posted by anya4oz
Paddy, bet you noticed the difference after living in Hong Kong - ISTR that people there seem to have a strong sense of national pride
Paddy, bet you noticed the difference after living in Hong Kong - ISTR that people there seem to have a strong sense of national pride
Apr 11th 2004, 9:04 am
#10
surfer chic from Teesside
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Halls head, WA
Posts: 1,431
Re: Disaffected Brits....
Originally posted by wmoore
Ah yes, there's another big problem in the UK. If you show any 'national pride' then you are branded a racist. Town halls aren't allowed to fly the Union Jack for fear of upsetting ethnic groups. What a load of crap
Ah yes, there's another big problem in the UK. If you show any 'national pride' then you are branded a racist. Town halls aren't allowed to fly the Union Jack for fear of upsetting ethnic groups. What a load of crap
YES. Its definately pants here.....
The weather being the main problem for me, I love the outdoor life, surfing, beaches, walking and gardening, trying to do these things here relies upon the weather, which almost always spoils it.
Another thing is the uneducated people who just dont care and litter the place up, it makes me so mad, when kids and adults are littering our streets.
Also how all of the houses are "on top of each other" shared drives and no space or land. Every bit of green gets built on sooner or later, making this pace grayer and duller day by day.
God, I feel DEPRESSED now, get me out of here!!
laura
x
Apr 11th 2004, 9:06 am
#11
surfer chic from Teesside
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Halls head, WA
Posts: 1,431
Re: Disaffected Brits....
And the list goes on, I can think of lots more reasons but I am feeling depressed enough now on this grey sunday morning so I had better not..........
have a nice day....
laura
xxxxxx
have a nice day....
laura
xxxxxx
Apr 11th 2004, 9:12 am
#12
What's happening dudes?
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Bayside Brisbane
Posts: 20,647
Re: Disaffected Brits....
Originally posted by lauralollipop
And the list goes on, I can think of lots more reasons but I am feeling depressed enough now on this grey sunday morning so I had better not..........
have a nice day....
laura
xxxxxx
And the list goes on, I can think of lots more reasons but I am feeling depressed enough now on this grey sunday morning so I had better not..........
have a nice day....
laura
xxxxxx
Well not for me anyway. Don't want to upset anyone that does have to work tomorrow......
Apr 11th 2004, 9:19 am
#13
surfer chic from Teesside
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Halls head, WA
Posts: 1,431
Re: Disaffected Brits....
Originally posted by wmoore
Cheer up Laura. At least no work tomorrow Well not for me anyway. Don't want to upset anyone that does have to work tomorrow......
Cheer up Laura. At least no work tomorrow
Well not for me anyway. Don't want to upset anyone that does have to work tomorrow......
ha,ha, nice one Wayne!
Apr 11th 2004, 9:53 am
#14
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from canned Oz
Posts: 1,833
Originally posted by wmoore
Another reason is that Brits are so insular too. How many times have you been on a foreign holiday and heard Brits complaining because you can't get a bacon buttie for breakfast or egg and chips for dinner? There is a definite air of "If's it not the same as back home, I don't want it". That's why English theme pubs do so well abroad. When I go anywhere, I go there to see a different lifestyle and sample it. :lecture:
Another reason is that Brits are so insular too. How many times have you been on a foreign holiday and heard Brits complaining because you can't get a bacon buttie for breakfast or egg and chips for dinner? There is a definite air of "If's it not the same as back home, I don't want it". That's why English theme pubs do so well abroad. When I go anywhere, I go there to see a different lifestyle and sample it. :lecture:
Apr 11th 2004, 10:04 am
#15
What's happening dudes?
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Bayside Brisbane
Posts: 20,647
Originally posted by MikeStanton
I find it ironic to read that one of the reasons for wanting to leave UK for Oz is the Brits' insularity. You're in for a big shock!
I find it ironic to read that one of the reasons for wanting to leave UK for Oz is the Brits' insularity. You're in for a big shock!
I have a good friend (English) who spent a long time in NZ and only came home because of his wife's mother. Everytime something goes wrong, he ways "well in NZ it was much better because". He's the Whinging Pom in reverse I think!