the troubadour

Massive automation will cross many areas in the coming years that will make many jobs redundant.

Be it in banking, finance, caring, accounts, office, industrial and what have the world is about to under go a shake up.

Human redundancy is already upon us. It will only accelerate over the coming years. What are we supposed to do?

To what benefit to Australia's longer term interest is it to run immigration at close to record highs although now in slight decline, taking into consideration future poor employment demand and prospects?

Not forgetting the recent several years large intact will age thirty years down the track putting further pressure on care resources at that point.

Smaller population countries can surely distribute the cake easier than bigger countries can't they?

Less stress on infrastructure and generally higher living standards.

Beoz

Put more bods into the research and development of automation. Use its brain power and existing education infrastructure to develop this. No point fighting it. Best to jump on board it.

GarryP

Worth remembering it's supposed to be skilled migration, thus if you do it right the skill/IQ level of your workforce should go up.

They are also the people with the get up and go to have got up and gone.

Maybe the better question is how you encourage your unemployable non-immigrants to go elsewhere?

the troubadour

Although as noted many of the so called skilled positions will have little need for workers in the coming years.

Being called The Second Machine Age, will have extensive impact on the job front.

Just how skilled a number on 457's are is highly questionable. Same as shortages being listed that are not really in need and migrant forced into other means of making a living. Far below the original qualification to which they qualified on.

GarryP

457 isn't permanent. And yes, there are other problems about the employment/business culture and lack of strategic vision in Oz. As I said,

the troubadour

It is well developed and going ahead regardless. Thing being what to do with the human fallout. A very large p[art of society will find itself redundant and surplus to requirements.

Good for business and increasing profit hardly good for society. Doesn't answer the question either why import record numbers of people in an age of such uncertainty.

the troubadour

A good percentage do go on and get permanency though. But not a guarantee. Some are well peeved off by reading such forums when it didn't work out as such.

Beoz

What human fallout? Get it done right, push the population into the right areas, structure it correctly and you have a good thing.

In regard to immigration, well if the locals don't want to jump on board, get people who will. If people don't want to think outside the box then too bad. There's too many who do want to move on to be held back by those who don't.

the troubadour

The human fall out being the loss of many millions of jobs. Advanced technology is soon to make many redundant. I've read a figure of fifty million in the western world. Not a question of locals not wanting to jump on board anything as so many of the jobs will be redundant.

Hence I question the need of rapid population growth in our cities as adding to the problem rather than solving much. Of course allowing high numbers of people will grow GDP and keep at bay recession and house price rapid declines, but at what cost?

I agree though more structured population in say country centres would allow survival of these towns with growth in population.

ozzieeagle

We'll never get decent infrastructure in this country in other words, as the only way it will come in my view is with a very large population of at least 50 mill plus and their taxable incomes. I'm talking the much needed water network along the east coast Brisbane through to Adelaide and the same Train link, only that should go further.

I cant see that infrastructure happening any other way, So I hope your wrong about the populace not shifting onto other kinds of employ. There must be a mass growth in growth industries with the ageing population and Tourism with the emerging Asian market coming this way surely... then there's Aus as a food bowl... which cant happen properly without that Eastern Water network link.

People have got these employment projections wrong before... remember the 30 hour week we where all meant to be looking forwards to as projected in the 80's because of computers etc. Hopefully this is the same case, or it's bye bye proper development and structural improvement here.

Beoz

Technology has seen some great increases in the past 30 years already. Its created jobs in other areas. So where in the 80's you may have become a tech guy that fixes TV's and Radios, today if they break you throw them out and buy another. That creates jobs in retail and distribution. Think about all the technology jobs in banks which didn't exist 30 years ago. Or the truck driver who was earning $100,000+ care of the mining boom.

Rather than looking at change with doom and gloom you look at it positively and help people adapt.

the troubadour

It has been suggested that a lot of those born in the eighties will have problems adopting to the technological change. Little to do with computers or It we are talking Robots . Bank jobs will increasingly disappear.

Beoz

Those damn Terminators hey. Evil things.

We will just see a shift. Where the factory floor was full of people 50 years ago those people will end up designing, building, selling, distributing and maintaining the 'bots.

GarryP

The problem concerns the type of jobs. In essence things that are repeatable and where you can/have to learn how to do them, can often be automated.

So, your truck driver, along with the taxi drivers, etc. get automated by driverless vehicles. And even if it's only at the margins, maybe 3% of the jobs each year, the bottom drops out of the wages.

And as we already know, most office jobs are rote moving of paper that don't need to exist if you were a bit smarter.

Most sales staff are a net negative to the store.

And 90% of doctors are replaceable.

Hell, even hairdressers.

What's left requires creative, imaginative, non-rote input - and there aren't many of those jobs in this cog biased world - and even less that have the required spark of intellect to do them. What do you do with the rest that are ... unemployable?

If we continue with the economic model we have now, the oligarchs taking all the profit, then the wheels come off and the whole thing falls apart. You NEED to change the model, but climate change has shown how the oligarchs fight any change, even when it threatens the species, if it means they have one less zero in their bank balance.

History says we will sleepwalk into a revolution.

Bix

It's been a bit of a pet topic of mine for several years now but I still think the worlds numero uno concern should be population control.

It affects the bottom line of all other things eg climate change, food supply, standard of living, exhaustion of resources.

Why does the world need growth? Isn't it something introduced by salesmen? The creation of consumerism has been very speedy.

Why is growth always attributed to needing more people to buy and consume more?

Is it not possible to exist and improve without growth?