Megalania

Its true that they were unfortunate in their choice of birthplace. Obviously trying to compensate since. So if they are not Aussie what hope for Immos?

jayr

Well, to go off subject for a bit and get a bit serious (sorry I know this is neither the time nor the place), what is it that makes our nationality, other than the legal niceties? I feel British due to chance of birth and upbringing but also feel a sense of what being Australian means, even if in a recent immigrant sort of way. I've never been a huge fan of the idea of national boundaries and identities anyway, freedom of movement of trade and labour seems much more sensible. Whatever, I still can't think of too many internationally renowned Australian born current residents of Australia and haven't heard of half the famous Australians that those four year olds know - this may be my own ignorance (by definition) but illustrates the lack of well know Australians.

Sorry, I'll get onto more trivial matters in later posts.

Megalania

To my taste, the wrong people become famous anyway.

THE QUIET AUSTRALIANS PROJECT

Ceri

What is considered Australian? Actually define any nationality. Blood or is it where you were born, or is it heritage, or where you've been brought up? It is interesting - I would say it's a bit of all the above.

I consider myself Welsh due to where I was born and brought up, but technically speaking by blood I'm more Irish than Welsh. If I had been brought up in Ireland I would have considered myself more Irish than Welsh. (I have an Irish mother born and bred and all Irish ancestry before her. A Welsh Father; his fore fathers go back for centuries in Wales, but his mothers side is Irish - hence by blood I actually have more Irish linage than Welsh)
So for me - I take my nationality from where I was schooled and brought up - which is Welsh. .


But saying all that;One of my friends he is a Brit (Welsh), married to an Asian national (Philippine) - been in Aus thirty years, have kids who were born here - and he considers them as Welsh/Brits and half Philippine - not Aussies. Why? Because he and his wife have put their own values on the children ie a welsh Philippine upbringing. Must say if I had kids born in Aus;I would consider them Welsh too and not Aussies, because of the upbringing/values from both parents.

Funny old world.
Cheers

Megalania

There are many immigrant families whose parents tried to bring up their kids as British, Italian, Greek, Lebonese etc. Often they simply ended up with confused kids who grew up to be Aussie. In turn, their kids often found nurishment in their grand parents culture.

jayr

My heritage is I believe East European, athough I don't know how far back but find it interesting and would like to know more one day. My young Brtish kids I expect to grow up as Australians, at least in accent if nothing else. I expect I'll still remind them that lunch is eaten at midday (not dinner) and dinner is an evening meal (not tea) however.


http://www.pastornet.net.au/alt/oct96/featoct96.html

Ceri

Here's one for you - a boy goes to Singapore at the age of 8 months old. Parents are British expats. He is brought up and schooled in Singapore, has Asian and "white" friends. He has never been to Britain, but yet holds a Brit passport. He is not a Singapore citizen. He goes to Britain at the age of 21 - does not fit in, it's alien to him,. but yet he is considered British and not Singaporean.

True story by the way.
This Kid is actually very mixed up - he got into real "trouble" a few times.

jah4reds

"Home is where the heart is" - a bit corney maybe but I think it's pretty true. It can't always be defined simply by where you're born, where you grow up, or where you spend most of your life. It's where you feel most comfortable which could be any of those.

Personally my family tree is a litle complicated. I am white and was born in Jamaica, WI - my father was a British emigrant to Jamaica, my mother was a white jamaican. On my mothers side, my grandfathers family was Welsh, my grandmothers family was white Jamaican (originally from Scotland). On my fathers side, both grandparents were English - but my surname name is ultimately from Ireland (Irish emigrants to England in the 18th century).

My wife's was born in England - both her parents are eastern european (Polish).

My children are born in Australia.

So what does that make them??

Perhaps Australian/English/Jamaican/Polish/Welsh/Scotish/Irish.

I'll let them decide - they'll probably move to Canada or somewhere else anyway!

AndyH.

Ceri

You will probably find that their accent changes depending on who they are talking to at the time. (know a few kids like this)

In the house they will talk like you, with their aussie mates they will switch accent. Not intentionally! .

I do the same myself - and can hear my accent change but can't stop it

When I talk to my gran or mum on the phone I have a weird Irish accent (and when I get annoyed! much to hubbys amusement!) - when I talk to my dad or friends back in Wales - I hear this welsh accent coming out.

Hubby phoned his mum the other night - I talked to her for about five minutes (that was enough mother in laws!) she said "god you sound aussie" . Can't see it myself.

What I'm trying to say - you find your accent switches depending on who you are talking to - and there is nothing you can do to stop it, you can hear yourself doing it - but can't stop it. I just know when I meet welsh people I find myself saying "in it? " lol - I can't stop myself! And I think "did I just say that? oh my gawd"> and when talking to mum or gran I change again


cheers

Ceri

Agree - it is where the heart is - it's in the heart and what you know and where you feel you belong - too hard to explain... I always cry at the welsh national anthem... heart, so very hard to explain I know.

You say you were born in Jamaica - were you brought up there? I do think it gets complicated, but I think what defines us the most is "the early years" basically it's where you were brought up governs us the most.


cheers

jayr

I think the English are struggling to define themselves with devolution of Scotland and Wales. The English seemed to always think British and English had little to distinguish between them, I suspect this was less felt by the Scots and Welsh. In recent years, the resurgence of the St George flag in use for World cup and other events was quite pleasant to see, as though the English had reclaimed it from those who used it and displayed it for rather more dubious 'nationalistic' purposes. There seemed to be a run of months during the World Cup and Golden Anniversary thing when many places were adorned with both the St George and Union flags.

Ceri

I never say "I'm British", for one reason - don't attack me! (this is my feeling) , but it's because English people have seemed to annex the word. My Grandfather (who was Irish) fought for the British army (it was his career - - he joined up before the war - fought the 2 war and continued to say in the army until retirement) - But he hated the English. He was proud to be a Brit. I'm not explaining myself very well I know. My welsh grandftaher fought in the war too - for what???? His country is not on the union flag.

Ever wonder why the Welsh despite being next to England have kept their own language? about 25% of us can speak it. I'm still not explaining myself really.

What get's up some peoples noses is the English word turns to Brit. It's like on this forum uk this, uk that - and they are talking about London, England etc.

Until the day England wakes up to itself and accept the other three countries, the true bretons - is the day "we" stop disliking England.- (by the way Welsh is one of the oldest languages in Europe - and as for the flag - it's one of the oldest in the world which is still in use today)

I will never ever fly that Union Jack - one reason - Wales is not on there, and yet ancestors shed blood for britain same as the English.

I would be proud to be a Brit - if England wasn't so Up itself and Wales was on the flag. Actually I do think England and Australia have very much in commom... like "aren't we the best ever" not good game , good game.


I have no feeling for the union jack, sorry to say.


cheers

jah4reds

I was born and lived there until I was sixteen. But the Jamaica I grew up in no longer exists. True I'd probably feel most comfortable going back in a time machine to this version of 'Jamaica' - but 'Time marches on'.

So now I just try to enjoy whereever I am to the best of my ability. Nowhere is perfect - to me it's just where you feel most relaxed and happy. Currently this is Australia for me (& family) - next year I could feel different.

Vive la difference!

AndyH.

jayr

How about this?

Ceri

Ps

Don't get me wrong and cast me as some "English hater' . Some of my best, closest, dearest friends are English. It's just I find that England needs to accept other people, and also at the same time be proud of herself without being derogatory to Welsh , Irish, or Scottish. Be proud of who you are, without "putting others down"


cheers