pommiesheila

New motto for Australia, I think.

Unfortunately, for a country which promotes itself on "giving everyone a fair go", this is the fact.

This statement applies to almost everything here, but in particular, to the most IMPORTANT things in life, i.e. healthcare, education, etc.

For me, this has been one of the biggest disappointments of coming here - I was led to believe Australia was a pretty classless society, therefore ridding us of the devisive elements of the two-tier system of health and education rampant in the UK these days. BIG MISTAKE. Its's worse here.

Is this a winge? Nope, its the truth.

Am I being negative? Nope, this is reality.

heading downunder 2002

I find it really funny that when anyone puts anything on here that indicates that things are not all rosy in Australia, its put down to homesickness or whinging.

magnetman

There is no such thing as a "classless society", anywhere, anytime. To think otherwise is naive. All men are equal, some more equal than others etc etc. There will always be some who are more successful than others, push the boundaries, innovate, make more money whatever. The challenge for society is how we take care of the truly disadvantaged, not whether we need to worry whether the better should or shouldn't be able to buy 'better' health care or education. We all make choices, at whatever level we work in society. We can choose our cars, food, houses, holidays so we should be free to choose our education and health care. In truth the latter is often delivered by the same doctors anyway, and the only differences are cosmetic - nicer hospital rooms with tv's etc. No one in their right mind in the UK would choose to be really ill in a private hospital, because you would get better care in the NHS. However in Australia the private hospitals can and do cope with sick people, and provide the full range of health care services. The differences arise through how the systems are funded and how that funding is administered. There is an excellent standard of state funded health care in both countries, we should be grateful for that.

If you had done your homework on the Australian Health system beforehand you wouldn't have been so surprised by what you found.

I would have thought that a standard of healthcare and education that is free and that surpasses what is available in most countries in the world constitutes a "fair go". Maybe thats why so many people risk life and limb to come to the UK or Australia illegally. Or maybe you ARE just a complete whinger.

Bernard

Absolutely correct - this is my biggest disappointment too.

I work in education here and its all about how wealthy the parents are.
Before I came I too thought that the UK was rather class-ridden and Australia would be classless - big mistake!
No, I'm not homesick, I've been here two years and there's lots here that I like; I'm living life to the full.
I don't have kids yet, but if/when I do I'll make sure that they are educated back in the UK where the system is higher quality and more egalitarian.

It always amazes me that those who paint the rosiest picture of Aus are posting from the UK - any negative posts from Aus residents are dismissed as whinging! At least wait till you've lived here a while, you may find that your views on how "bad" the UK is will change after a year or two.

Kath

Bernard

I've read quite a few of your posts regarding education and value your opinion - you are teaching in Australia and experiencing the education system first hand.

We have been in Perth now for 6 months, we have two children, a boy aged 7 and a girl age 4. We feel worried that we've taken our two children out of a very good UK primary school and they are now in a very average Australian school where standards are lower. We are really enjoying the whole Aussie experience and lifestyle but, mainly for education reasons, we plan to return to the UK after a few years.

Do you think, given their age, we can provide them with the extra tuition they need through extra reading, maths, puzzles, travel etc..? It's a concern for us but I do feel they will benefit from this experience.

Any comments much appreciated!

Bernard

I think that parents can do a great deal - especially through the promoting of reading etc. You really need to 'make time' to do this when the kids are not too tired.

Your children are still quite young, so you've not reached a critical stage yet.
I think the big divergence in standards comes around 11 years old (Year 6, in UK terms) when the children leave junior school and go to high school/upper school (depending on your local 'educationspeak'). The 11-13 age range high schools tend to be much better in the UK - in Aus the state schools tend to just let them 'coast'. This is the age at which they first get 'subject specialist' teahcing (i.e. different teachers for maths, English, history etc.) and it is at this age that they really make rapid progress if taught well. It is at this age that the UK system seems to work so much better. I'm talking in general, of course, there are good/bad schools in both countries, but there is a real political will to try and make things better in the UK. The Aus answer is, 'if its not good enough then pay up and go private'.

Things are different again in the University sector, of course. The UK stands head and shoulders above Aus in this respect - no doubt at all. Access, funding, standards, are all vastly better. You would be a mug to go through the Aus system if you could get the kids into a UK university (even if it means sending kids to stay with relatives in the UK, or some other 'wangle').

Sandra

I am posting from Aus

Two children 10 and 12 - and I am very happy at this point with my childrens public education in NSW, Sydney. I am a complete bitch when it comes to education, no choice too small to ensure my children get the best for them (not money orientated). I moved my children in the UK, cause there are crap schools in every state/county, country, I was lucky I had the 'money' intelligence' 'insight'????

I believe that if you seriously move to any country for education you really better have researched to the nth degree. I did mine, and have planned for later opportunity for my children if they wish to take it.

And I have question for pommiesheila - I never believed in a better life coming to aus - I do not see anything different here in aus than the UK, money talks, so do intelligent parents who care. So my question - What made you think different - who 'led' you to think differently?

Cheers Sandra

magnetman

Does anyone have experience of living in Aus/sending kids to Univ in UK? Do you know if you have to pay 'overseas' (ie full) fees or the GBP1100 whatever it is?

magnetman

Could it be that those who arrive, settle and have a great life don't bother to post? If you look at the huge number of members since 2000/2001 or trawl the archives and compare with the number of resident Australia posters on this forum then most of them must have stopped posting. Why?

pommiesheila

I was led to believe differently because of all the hype which Australia promotes itself with, coupled with an extremely biased father-in-law whose brother moved over here in the 60's. Said father-in-law constantly quoted his brother's family - 3 kids, got good jobs, fantastic lifestyle, very happy etc. and F-I-L had many trips over here and kept on and on and on about how our children would be better off over here.

OK, I was a fool. I own up.

Still, hindsight is a marvellous thing.

A question for you - if you never believed in a better life coming to Aus, what made you come? Was it job-related? Interested to hear your comments. BTW, I do think, speaking to people in both Brisbane and Sydney, that NSW has a better education system than Queensland - and is probably a more "together" state generally. Unfortunately, we couldn't afford to live there.

anzen12

The trouble is every time one of us talks highly of our experiences, Pommiebloodybastard or twofingerI'msoangrysalute, chimes in with an aggressive response. I'm reasonably new on this board - with the real intention of trying to see if I could pass on any help. If I give a positive opinion it usually turns into an argument, often based on the other person using newspaper or internet quotes. Eventually you must get tired of having to defend every opinion.

I miss so much about England, but all in all I love living here - as do my wife and 14 year old son. I don't have to pretend this. I love living here.

sophia

HAHA!! ME too ANZEN!! We are having a wonderful time in this new country of ours, but if we say anything good, then we haven't been here long enough blah blah blah blah blah blah!! Even though I was born here and spent my early childhood here (and have family here), I was basically brought up in West Yorkshire (hooray for yorkshire!!) there is a lot you miss, but the differences between the two countries are what makes it a fascinating place to live.

Its like 'Dukes of Hazzard'country where I live and we love it!! We have also just found a spot in Safety Bay where the dolphins come right into the bay to play....haven't seen any yet, but we've only checked it out for the first time today...

Would love to help anyone with anything but PM me so that I don't get 'done' by the usual suspects for lying through my teeth to you about everything!

love sophia xx

Ceri

Hi,
Having been a public patient here in Hospital for a major incident, I basically nearly lost my leg. I can comment that the treatment at the public hospital which I was in and it was far from being adequate care. It had nothing do with TV's and nice rooms as someone else tried to suggest, but a lack of doctors and nurses and a lack of hospital equipment. Had I gone Private I would have had access to the equipment which may or may not have improved my health at a faster rate (a decompression chamber/oxygen.. used in hospitals for healing of wounds.. it's similar to what the divers use if they have the bends)
This I know, because the doctors tried to get me booked into a certain machine because my leg was not healing , the machine was at use at a close by private hospital.. no go.

I'm not whinging either pommieshelia, but probably will get accused of it The public hospital I was in was not good care. I made the mistake of not taking out Private when I first got here believing their public system was as good as Britain's (and before anyone suggests public in Britain is worse.. sorry, my father had a bypass last year, no waiting list.. very good care and my father in law had a stroke a couple of years ago.. same with him very good care).

Anyway,this experience with me occurred 2 years after I got to Aus. I would never ever go public again in Australia. Actually, my first choice would be to fly back home (which wasn't possible last time.. too dangerous, a danger of blood clotting in my injured leg), my second choice would be to fly to Singapore and pay to be hospitalised there, which is expensive, but I'd rather pay for good care.Singapore hospitals are far better than the Aussie ones in my opinion and from personal experience. Last choice would be to stay here and pay private, but never would I go public again in Australia. I found the care sub standard, and dreadful. I had a woman in the next bed to me ( she was about 6 stone/really skinny) don't know what she had, but she was a long term patient/terminal. One night she pulled a tube out of her throat, spurting blood everywhere.. the nurse who was on duty at the time rang the bell for help as she was trying to stop the blood flow, no one came (lack of staff)... in the end she shouted at another women in an opposite bed to me (a patient) can you walk? .. just about she said, so this other patient had to basically limp/drag herself out of her bed to look for some of the other nurses to help this poor girl who was spurting blood, and the one nurse who was trying to stem the flow in the next bed to me! .. Absolutely dreadful! Lack of staff and care.

No you're not whinging, your question was a sensible one. Perhaps I had a bad experience with one hospital, but my opinion is the care I had is rubbish compared to the care in the UK.

I for one would never go into an Australian Public Hospital again, but I would in Britain. I have first hand experience of being a patient here for a major incident nearly losing my limb.. never again.

cheers

Kath

Bernard, Many thanks for your feedback.

Your comments (i.e. state schools allow children to 'coast') reflect what happens in our area, many people choose state schools for their children's primary education then move their children to 'private' high school.

I don't have experience of state high schools but it's a worry when so many of the able children 'opt' out at this age.

Sandra

Hi there Pommiesheila

We did not have anyone hyping Aus to us, we have been to a quite a few places in the world, including me working in the States for a few months.

Andy and I had very good jobs in the UK, nice 4 bed, cars, kids in great local state schools - all that at 36 at the time and we wanted some more to challenge us. Lucky for us we had an opportunty with my work to come here on a temp business visa and some other opportunities. We are now going to sell the house in the UK to put a few more roots down here at least till with have citizenship and the children are a little older.

Everyone has different views and experiences and I have been lucky to be able to make this move with the guarantee of a decent job. I did not think Australia was the complete answer because of financial/health/education and other areas that I researched but did believe it was our family opportunity to do something different. We already spent lots of time camping, travelling as a family - regardless of weather in the UK and abroad and my personal opinion is if you didn't do those things before don't believe for one sec the sun shining will make you do more! Andy and I work as a team with our children and we are enjoying the personal time as a group, also the beach, surfing, swimming, travel, new experiences and more. We do love all our family and miss them dreadfully - the distance is awsome from the UK and very bloody expensive, especially on Aus money!!!

I cannot tell you we love everything Aus and hate all UK things just not true we are making the best (we try!) I have a great moan about lots of things here - banking charges, crappy wooden house and no double glazing (rental thank goodness) low wages, anti female attitudes...and on and on.......pros and cons on all sides.

I am going to enjoy the now, make plans for the next couple of years and then hopefully make choices for the future from then. I do not believe anything is irreversible - bloody hard maybe though!

Very very sorry if I sound preachy - I have had hard time here in the last seven months, tears etc. I would love to chat with you more pommieshelia, maybe swopping emails we can have a bitch together (I have some horror stories too!) and find the fun.

I do understand family pressure, very very hard.

Cheers and Best Christmas Wishes