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Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Old Aug 14th 2011, 4:26 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

The Aussie version of 'The Good, The Bad & The Ugly' is 'The Good, The Very Good and The Excellent.'
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Old Aug 15th 2011, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Originally Posted by folic View Post
As always, I'm in agreement with Quoll, who has repeat personal experience to back her comments, considering she's lived in Oz for years and at the same time revisits the UK frequently. Of all the comments to be found in this forum, Quoll's are best to be relied upon for the pure, unvarnished truth, imo

When we were kids (brought to Oz by parents seeking 'adventure and better life for themselves and family) our intrepid adventurer parents insisted we have a 'better quality of life' and experience first hand ' Oz's great outdoors and superior climate' lol

We camped, biked, drove, motelled and caravaned and walked. And it was an ordeal, most of the time. Only thing which made it bearable were the kids we met and formed temporary friendships with

Nowadays, I watch the superb production ' Coast ' -- only to see what TRULY superior 'great outdoors' and 'quality of life' is all about ! It's in Britain !. And it doesn't take dozens of hours stuck in the back of a car, passing hundreds of miles of monotonous Aussie scenery consisting of washed-out scrub interspersed with more washed out scrub !

Take the journey to Queensland's Far North. We imagined it would be tropical - Hawaiian looking - with tall tuffed palms and lower down the sort of rich, tropical greenery you find in expensive garden nurseries. No. It was more washed-out scrub and still more -- even up to Port Douglas and around Trinity Beach

Going south to Bega in southern NSW - not much there either - nothing you wouldn't see anywhere in the world -- some grass, some cows, some old farmhouses

Go west, to Kingaroy, Biloela, Proston, Gayandah --- yep, more washed out scrub and miles of empty, lonely road with a farmhouse off in the distance. And those farmhouses are nothing spectacular - nothing heritage listed - nothing scenic - nothing you'd remember

Head to Toowoomba. Yes, you're getting the picture -- more washed out scrub and lonely, lonely roads. And when you get there, what do you find ? A mock English structure, the university (surrounded by not much at all)

So what's all this we keep hearing about re: 'quality of life' and 'magnificent climate and scenery' in Oz ? It rains here. It gets very cold and also very hot and very dry and very wet here. Rare to find double-glazing. People with their heads to the ground, weighed down by worry, unemployment, mortgage pressures, rising costs, racial tensions, massive immigration, ever rising energy prices, expensive across the board, jobs being shipped overseas, crippling welfare existences for young and old unable to find work

Better quality of life ? Great outdoors ? Great climate ? They've been telling porkies about Australia since they decided to utilize it as a penal colony

And despite well over a decade of repeated requests by academics and public alike, the Oz government continues to refuse to make public the number of Aussies who leave Oz permanently each year. Oh -- and let's not forget the official number of Aussies who travelled OUT of Australia last year in preference to holidaying in Oz's supposed 'superior climate, great outdoors and scenery'. The official number of Aussies who'd had enough of Oz and wanted to go somewhere nice for a change -- numbered over 6 million ! A quarter of Oz's entire population ! Even in these difficult financial times. So ponder that ...

Then you look at Britain, that treasure trove of unspoiled scenery - with its astonishing variety - with its abundant means of transport - with its history, its charm, its uniqueness - with its innumberable islands, each with history, mystery, and so within reach. Its coves, bays, harbours, inlets - all with their unique charm. Its beaches, its marshes, its lakes and rivers, tumbling streams, waterfalls, magical pasts

Sure, come to Australia, by all means. The Aussie government will paint a rich tapestry of supposed delights for those stricken with 'grass is greener' syndrome. But here's a hint: put the money for your return fare in a very safe place -- for when you accept you've been unable to find much in Oz that you didn't have a better version of, right under your nose in the UK
Weathers shite in the UK. Thats the main difference. I know what your getting at though that its not all sweetness and light here

You must have had a bad childhood. Sorry
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Old Aug 15th 2011, 4:36 pm
  #63  
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

The Australian Government REFUSES to make public the figures for emigration/immigration? I pulled these from one simple five minute Google search.

You are obviously someone who never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.

I suppose the phrase below 'Fact Sheet' should really read 'Fiction Sheet' because the Australian Government, unlike HMG, NEVER tells the truth?

Australians are well known as adventurous and enthusiastic travellers but most of them come back.

Look at the table below and note the difference between emigration and immigration which perhaps explains why Australia's population is over 22 million and rising.

Fact Sheet – Permanent Arrivals and Departures from Australia, 1979–80 to 2008–09
Permanent arrivals Permanent departure – Australian born Permanent departure – overseas born Total permanent departure Permanent departure/ permanent arrival Net permanent gain
1979–80 80 748 6 986 15 031 22 017 27.30% 58 731
1980–81 110 689 5 942 13 554 19 496 17.60% 91 193
1981–82 118 031 5 809 15 076 20 885 17.70% 97 146
1982–83 93 011 5 984 18 846 24 830 26.70% 68 181
1983–84 68 813 6 492 17 812 24 304 35.30% 44 509
1984–85 77 508 6 051 14 327 20 378 26.30% 57 130
1985–86 92 590 5 600 12 500 18 100 19.50% 74 490
1986–87 113 541 6 099 13 829 19 928 17.60% 93 613
1987–88 143 466 6 762 13 709 20 471 14.30% 122 995
1988–89 145 316 6 560 15 087 21 647 14.90% 123 669
1989–90 121 227 8 399 19 458 27 857 23.00% 93 370
1990–91 121 688 9 490 21 640 31 130 25.60% 90 558
1991–92 107 391 9 178 19 944 29 122 27.10% 78 269
1992–93 76 330 9 803 18 102 27 905 36.60% 48 425
1993–94 69 768 9 927 17 353 27 280 39.10% 42 488
1994–95 87 428 10 092 16 856 26 948 30.80% 60 480
1995–96 99 139 11 005 17 665 28 670 28.90% 70 469
1996–97 85 752 11 698 18 159 29 857 34.80% 55 895
1997–98 77 327 12 771 19 214 31 985 41.40% 45 342
1998–99 84 143 17 250 17 931 35 181 41.80% 48 962
1999–2000 92 272 20 234 20 844 41 078 44.50% 51 194
2000–01 107 366 23 081 23 440 46 521 43.30% 60 845
2001–02 88 900 24 146 24 095 48 241 54.30% 40 659
2002–03 93 914 25 578 24 885 50 463 53.70% 43 451
2003–04 111 590 29 140 29 938 59 078 52.94% 52 512
2004–05 123 424 31 027 31 579 62 606 50.72% 60 818
2005–06 131 593 34 284 33 569 67 853 51.56% 63 740
2006–07 140 148 36 882 35 221 72 103 51.44% 68 045
2007–08 149 365 39 144 37 779 76 923 51.50% 72 442
2008–09 158 021 41 249 39 769 81 018 51.27% 77 003

Terms
Permanent arrivals
Travellers who hold migrant visas (regardless of the stated intended period of stay), New Zealand citizens who indicate an intention to settle and those who are otherwise eligible to settle.
Example: Overseas-born children of Australian citizens.

Permanent departures
Australian residents (including former settlers) who on departure state that they intend to settle permanently in another country.

Return to Fact Sheet 5
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Old Aug 15th 2011, 4:50 pm
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Here's another interesting 'fact' I found in the Daily Telegraph (the Pommy one!)

Why Britain's brightest and best are emigrating

12:01AM GMT 21 Feb 2008
112 Comments
We already knew, courtesy of the Office for National Statistics, that emigration from this country is running at higher levels than at any time since before the First World War, with 200,000 British citizens a year departing these shores.

Biggest brain drain from UK in 50 years
Your view: How can we halt the brain drain?
We now learn from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) that we lead the world in exporting talent, with a higher proportion of highly skilled professionals emigrating from this country than from any other (except Mexico).

The OECD estimates that 1.1 million highly skilled Britons - more than one in ten of the total - are now living overseas. That 1960s phenomenon, the Brain Drain, is back.

Should we worry? The urge to wander the globe has been in the DNA of the British for centuries; it produced an empire and gave the world a universal language.

Pushed by poverty or oppression at home and pulled by the lure of fortunes to be made overseas, we have proved a footloose nation. But the current burst of wanderlust is motivated by something rather different.

We are the world's sixth biggest economy - few places offer better financial prospects for the talented and industrious. So why the exodus? Scratch an expat in any of the 100-plus countries that have sizeable British communities and you will rapidly find out.

They will cite the coarsening of British society, the rudeness and the aggression on our unsafe streets, the dead hand of welfarism, hospitals that make you sick, not better - the list is long.

One thing will be mentioned more than any other: that unchecked immigration over the past decade is creating a country many Britons no longer feel comfortable in.

The Government, stung by the backlash against this in its own electoral backyard, yesterday published a Green Paper on citizenship. It is no more than window dressing, an attempt to show it is "doing something" about immigration when it has proved incapable of delivering the one thing that would actually have an impact - a strict curb on the inflow of immigrants.

While economic immigration is healthy, what the OECD figures reveal, when set alongside the half a million foreigners coming here each year (nearly four million new arrivals since 1997) is a "churn" effect that is fundamentally transforming the make-up of our society.

The highly skilled are being replaced by incomers who may be hard-working, may have trades - but are not as qualified. This has serious long-term implications, social as well as economic. Regrettably, the Government has so far shown it has not even started to grasp the significance of all this, let alone framed a serious response
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Old Aug 15th 2011, 4:58 pm
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Here's a third 'fact' from a review of a book about 'ten pound Poms'. NB the first paragraph - does not give numbers in the review BUT it does say that out of the one million plus who came out to Aussie, some came back to UK disillusioned but MOST stayed.

Ten Pound Poms: Australia's Invisible Migrants

By A James Hammerton And Alistair Thomson, Manchester: Manchester University Press, 2005, 388 pages, paperback, #14.99. Reviewed by Shirleene Robinson in the June 2005 issue.

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Between the 1940s and the 1970s, as most Australians are aware, more than a million British migrants known as 'ten pound Poms' emigrated to Australia as part of a somewhat desperate post-war strategy to fill the nation with 'white' migrants. Some returned home to Britain after their compulsory two years, disillusioned about what they had found in Australia. The majority permanently embraced life on the other side of the world. In Ten Pound Poms, A. James Hammerton and Alistair Thomson use an extraordinary volume of first-hand accounts to map the diverse experiences of this huge mass of migrants.

At first, some readers might be surprised to find that Hammerton and Thomson refer to this enormous wave of migrants as a 'forgotten' group of immigrants. After all, the sheer volume of this migration indicates that this mass movement of people inevitably had a significant impact on Australian society. What Hammerton and Thomson mean however is that in proportion to their size and influence, this group of British migrants have received surprisingly little scholarly attention. With Ten Pound Poms, Hammerton and Thomson have provided a definitive history of this migratory movement.

Quite fittingly given its subject matter, Ten Pound Poms emerged from the integration of research projects at the University of Sussex in Britain and La Trobe University in Australia. The authors have used a remarkable amount of oral history interviews with British migrants to flesh out the themes of the book and to give the 'ten pound Poms' themselves a strong voice in their history. It is clear that there were many different factors that drew these migrants to Australia and that life in Australia had the potential to be anything from wonderful to horribly disappointing.

The true strength of Ten Pound Poms is that it manages to strike an almost perfect balance between academic rigour and between being a readable and entertaining account of this wave of migration. Ten Pound Poms is a book that should not only appeal to historians and an academic audience, but is a work that should also appeal to these British migrants themselves. Both authors have worked with oral history in the past and know when to let the migrants speak for themselves and tell their own stories.

The book itself is structured and written well. It is divided into three parts. The first, entitled 'Emigration', features chapters that discuss the way that Australia was promoted as a destination within Britain, the motives that drew migrants to Australia and the way that some migrants felt stuck between two worlds upon making the decision to migrate. The second part, entitled 'Britons in postwar Australia', features a number of chapters discussing the experiences of these migrants within Australia. It is clear that there were as many negative experiences as there were positive ones and it is interesting to read how these British migrants adjusted to -- or failed to adjust to -- life in Australia. The third part, entitled 'Migration, memory and identity', deals with the national identity of these migrants and the way that this had altered over time and with passing generations.

The text itself is illustrated well. The promotional material produced by the Australian government to lure British migrants to Australia makes for interesting reading. A number of pictures from those whose stories are told in the text are featured. These serve to personalise the larger story of mass migration and allow the reader to identify with the stories that are being told.

Ten Pound Poms captures the multifaceted nature of migration to Australia very well. Some people tend to assume that 'ten pound Poms' were wholeheartedly embraced by the wider population upon migrating to Australia and that their adjustment was easy due to the fact that they were English-speaking migrants to a society that still considered itself intrinsically British in nature. Hammerton and Thomson, however, do effectively manage to point out and capture the distress and adjustment problems that some migrants did experience. Problems such as dislocation, racism, and even difficulties adjusting to the Australian weather and environment, haunted a large number of these British migrants.

Overall, it is hard to find fault with Ten Pound Poms. Personally, I was quite interested in the way that British migrants interacted with non-British migrants to Australia during this time period. I would have liked to have read a little more about this topic. This was a matter that was dealt with briefly in the text, but was really outside the scope of concern of this book.

This is a book that thoroughly charts one of the most important migratory movements in Australian history. It is well-written, interesting and personal. It should not only appeal to those who have an association with these British migrants, but those who have a general interest in twentieth century Australian history. I recommend it thoroughly.

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Old Aug 16th 2011, 2:55 am
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

There are no doubt some would believe that.

Originally Posted by saveme View Post
The Aussie version of 'The Good, The Bad & The Ugly' is 'The Good, The Very Good and The Excellent.'
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 3:00 am
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

There are the FACTS for those who have enjoyed it, and the STORY for the ones who haven't?
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 3:10 am
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Originally Posted by itxrd View Post
Weathers shite in the UK. Thats the main difference. I know what your getting at though that its not all sweetness and light here

You must have had a bad childhood. Sorry
No such thing as 'shite weather', just the wrong clothes.

I'd rather have a cool UK winter's day over a stifling Brisbane summer one.

Talking of which, time to make the most of the cooler conditions
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 8:56 am
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Yes that's a very good point, I was outside for a few hours the other day and it made me remember just how uncomfortable and oppressive summers up here can be. I much prefer the winter up here and have never been bothered by the cold.

Originally Posted by DeadVim View Post
No such thing as 'shite weather', just the wrong clothes.

I'd rather have a cool UK winter's day over a stifling Brisbane summer one.

Talking of which, time to make the most of the cooler conditions
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 9:27 am
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Originally Posted by DeadVim View Post
No such thing as 'shite weather', just the wrong clothes.

I'd rather have a cool UK winter's day over a stifling Brisbane summer one.

Talking of which, time to make the most of the cooler conditions
Don't really like anything over 35, but would rather have it too hot than too cold.

Last November in the UK was awful when they had that snow. My brother has one of those token meters, and it kept running out (10 pound every 2 days he was putting in!)...I was freezing! couldn't wait to get home
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 9:49 am
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

I would sooner it was 20 every day but I handle the cold better than the heat, I can always put a jumper on but when I get down to skin that really is it.
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 10:08 am
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Originally Posted by Wendy View Post
Don't really like anything over 35, but would rather have it too hot than too cold.

Last November in the UK was awful when they had that snow. My brother has one of those token meters, and it kept running out (10 pound every 2 days he was putting in!)...I was freezing! couldn't wait to get home
It could have been worse, it could have been 5 pounds a day.

I just got my Winter electric bill today, $1,232.57
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 10:10 am
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus View Post
It could have been worse, it could have been 5 pounds a day.

I just got my Winter electric bill today, $1,232.57
I'm tired and ill...that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

Also, he didn't buy a 5 pound token every day, he bought a 10 pound one every two days
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 11:28 am
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

When I get old the last place I want to be is somewhere cold. the UK can be freezing - literally. You want about 20 degrees all yr round and sydney's around that most of the year. Yes some days are 35 and some 10 but not that often.

Uk's gone to pot anyway - check out the riots. The British look at people rioting in Lebanon, Africa, Afghanistan and call them 3rd world countries. Is the UK any better? Its up to the eyeballs in scum.

Yes you guys are right Aussies do see things through rose tinted spectacles and its a rip off but if you have young kids its a no brainer where to bring them up. People won't like it but the UK doesn't have much going for it right now.
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Old Aug 16th 2011, 11:59 am
  #75  
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Default Re: Whether to do the move or not- oz the good bad and ugly needed!

Originally Posted by Wendy View Post
Also, he didn't buy a 5 pound token every day, he bought a 10 pound one every two days
yah.. that's kinda what he was saying!! I would prefer to pay £2.50 every half a day.
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