What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
#46
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Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
A lot of people feel that these people will then get refugee status here very quickly.
They then become entitled to government benefits that even Australian Citizens can't get, let alone bypassing the 2 year wait that those using the normal channels have to wait.
The burning boat theory is based on similar previous events, where they hope to avoid being towed back out of Australian waters.
Although not yet confirmed, and may never be confirmed, it does seem to be a feasible action.
I wonder why they didn't stay in Indonesia, as they had got that far ?
If they were true refugees from their own country, then Indonesia would be better than where they were originally. But obviously not as good as Australia.
Australia takes in a certain number of Refugees each year. These refugees are selected by "I have no idea, but I did look".
Each illegal refugee takes away a place for a genuine refugee. So effectively this is queue jumping, and only harms other, maybe more genuine, refugees.
It has no other real effect on Australians as the total number will stay about the same.
Some people who may have been waiting for urgent hospital admission, and now get told that their case is delayed, may well be unhappy due to circumstances that 'may' be self inflicted.
They then become entitled to government benefits that even Australian Citizens can't get, let alone bypassing the 2 year wait that those using the normal channels have to wait.
The burning boat theory is based on similar previous events, where they hope to avoid being towed back out of Australian waters.
Although not yet confirmed, and may never be confirmed, it does seem to be a feasible action.
I wonder why they didn't stay in Indonesia, as they had got that far ?
If they were true refugees from their own country, then Indonesia would be better than where they were originally. But obviously not as good as Australia.
Australia takes in a certain number of Refugees each year. These refugees are selected by "I have no idea, but I did look".
Each illegal refugee takes away a place for a genuine refugee. So effectively this is queue jumping, and only harms other, maybe more genuine, refugees.
It has no other real effect on Australians as the total number will stay about the same.
Some people who may have been waiting for urgent hospital admission, and now get told that their case is delayed, may well be unhappy due to circumstances that 'may' be self inflicted.
It is somehat ambigerous to state who are real refugees when those that arrive will be required to fullfill the same criteria as those off shore to pass muster.Also those selected overseas fill a quota and are not necessary any more genuine nor needy.
Admission to hospital is based on need and long may this remain the case .There are hundreds admitted to our hospitals every month due to self inflected causes...from self harm..to drink related accidents....
#47
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Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
The reason for this is a number of nations are not signatory to the United Nations Convention on Refugees which was conducted after World War 2 when a lot of developing world countries had yet to gain independence from their colonal masters so played no part in the original pact which at the time was looking at finding homes for the massive number of stateless people as a result of the recently finished war.
#48
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Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
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Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Excellent post & reasons why no one country can sort out the worlds problems. Idealistically every safe country saves every persecuted person. Realistically no one country can do this which is why there is/should be a system to adhere to.
These people skip the process putting their own lives and others at risk as well as a strain on already limited infrastructure. Allowing them to get away with it encourages more of the same behavior. There's no easy answer
These people skip the process putting their own lives and others at risk as well as a strain on already limited infrastructure. Allowing them to get away with it encourages more of the same behavior. There's no easy answer
The only solution can be a global one.
#49
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Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
The whole thing is a complete scam. Young men living in a third world country somehow save up $10,000!!!! How is this done legally, given that they are supposed to be under oppression?
Then having saved up $10,000, they bribe a people smuggler and fly off to Asia and are then put up at hotels until they join a boat for the final leg to Australia. Do they just rock on up to the departure lounge at Kabul airport? How are they able to get smuggled out of their countries where they are under all this oppression. How come its OK to leave their wife(s) and kids behind being oppressed while they sail off around the world, cherry picking the best destinations on the globe. Why dont they settle in Indonesia which is the world's biggest Muslim country?
Here is a new flash. If my wife and kids were in danger, I would not run away and leave them to be raped and oppressed while I wander the globe checking out the country with the most generous social welfare benefits.
I would get my family out of danger and to the nearest safe destination that had a similar culture to the one that I belonged to.
The whole refugee game is a totally illegal business operation that is being used to make fortunes for some and allow others to jump the queue to a better economic life.
I have a lot of sympathy for some of the British readers of this forum who are going through all the correct channels, paying out good money in fees and yet will probably miss out on their dream of coming to Australia because of the economic downturn, but will get to watch in amazement as opportunistic criminals who will never contribute anything to Australia will jump the queue to the good life down under.
Then having saved up $10,000, they bribe a people smuggler and fly off to Asia and are then put up at hotels until they join a boat for the final leg to Australia. Do they just rock on up to the departure lounge at Kabul airport? How are they able to get smuggled out of their countries where they are under all this oppression. How come its OK to leave their wife(s) and kids behind being oppressed while they sail off around the world, cherry picking the best destinations on the globe. Why dont they settle in Indonesia which is the world's biggest Muslim country?
Here is a new flash. If my wife and kids were in danger, I would not run away and leave them to be raped and oppressed while I wander the globe checking out the country with the most generous social welfare benefits.
I would get my family out of danger and to the nearest safe destination that had a similar culture to the one that I belonged to.
The whole refugee game is a totally illegal business operation that is being used to make fortunes for some and allow others to jump the queue to a better economic life.
I have a lot of sympathy for some of the British readers of this forum who are going through all the correct channels, paying out good money in fees and yet will probably miss out on their dream of coming to Australia because of the economic downturn, but will get to watch in amazement as opportunistic criminals who will never contribute anything to Australia will jump the queue to the good life down under.
Refugees have commited and contributed a lot in the past to this country as they have to others including Britain and am sure will continue to do so.
#50
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Location: Perth
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Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
I do not feel sorry for these criminals at all, in fact I'd be in favour of the Australian Navy blowing the boats up themselves as the are entering Australian waters illegally.
There are plenty of countries these people could go to but they are deliberately coming to countries like Australia and the UK to 'steal' the benefits that are on offer in our soft-touch societies.
They are no different to the other refugees that cross half a dozen safe Western countries to try and sneak into the UK through the channel tunnel.
No doubt some will express horror at my attitude, but these people are deliberate in their criminal actions - not genuine refugees.
There are plenty of countries these people could go to but they are deliberately coming to countries like Australia and the UK to 'steal' the benefits that are on offer in our soft-touch societies.
They are no different to the other refugees that cross half a dozen safe Western countries to try and sneak into the UK through the channel tunnel.
No doubt some will express horror at my attitude, but these people are deliberate in their criminal actions - not genuine refugees.
#51
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Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Could say the same but a different destination to some of our open minded tolerent and all round compassionate human beings who hail from the United Kingdom who some how washed up upon these shores.
#52
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Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Camberwell, Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 781
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
And, the person gets a nice flight back to their country.
They know what they are doing is illegal and they hope things work out. That's their choice.
What we do not know is how many other boats landed here on a beach one night and dropped off 30 or 40 or xx number of illegals and they are now roaming the country...
I'd guess for every boat we know about, there are 5-10 that we do not...
#53
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Very few people would dispute the desperation illegal immigrants feel when they put their lives at risk to make an illegal entry into any country. The point is, whilst every country would like to take in every person who is desperate unfortunately this is not possible. There are legal entry rules to follow otherwise we may just as well open up to everyone, and as much as this is idealistic it's not realistic.
#54
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
If someone claiming to be a refugee deliberately passing through several safe countries without claiming asylum because he wants to apply in another country 15,000km away, I have to question his motivation.
The infamous Bakhtiyari fiasco is a case in point.
#55
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Nope, same topic. I work with young people who have major addictions, serious self harm and unwanted pregnancies purely to escape the realism of their current situation, so you could argue that they deliberately choose this way of life.
They don't need to flee a country but they generally need to flee their fxxxed up families and lives and come into a hospital as a place of safety and refuge - maybe even taking up a bed that may be just as genuinely needed by another patient.
Just as well that most of the people in my profession are not so judgemental as some on here.
They don't need to flee a country but they generally need to flee their fxxxed up families and lives and come into a hospital as a place of safety and refuge - maybe even taking up a bed that may be just as genuinely needed by another patient.
Just as well that most of the people in my profession are not so judgemental as some on here.
I don't know about WA, but here in NSW the health services are near collapse, with low morale, inability to get trained doctors in anywhere but the major cities, nurses on occasion buying standard equipment out of their own pockets, suppliers not being paid for months on end (and in some cases going bust because of it) and deteriorating hospitals.
Yet the emergency units spend a considerable proportion of their time tending to addicts and alcoholics as well as a stream of semiconcious teenagers who vomit their loads of alcohol over the floor. Many are serial "customers".
It would be nice and cuddly to imagine that everyone has to "be given a chance" but the reality is that there are always going to be financial constraints and it sickens me to see the way that ordinary, hardworking people with limited funds have to put up with long waiting lists and decrepit facilities when so much money is thrown at selfabusers.
Society needs to grow up and realise that the "community" cannot take responsibility for anyone who can't accept it him/herself.
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Not everyone can be treated as it is, even without criminals pushing to the front.
There are many people on medical waiting lists all around the country. And some of these will have to be put back further, due to the time and resources being spent on these criminals.
All the doctors and nurses being used for these cases, have had to drop what they were doing, change surgery schedules etc., delay other operations etc...
If it was your son/daughter/mother that had waited for ages for an urgent operation, but was sidelined because because a criminal stuffed up and criminals got hurt, would you be happy ? or would you be like I suggested in my original post and feel that it is a bit unfair ?
Only a Saint would be happy for their innocent relative to be sidelined so a criminal can be looked after in priority.
If we lived in Utopia, with unlimited financial and medical staff resources, and everyone could be treated it may be different, but we don't. We have financial and staff resource restrictions.
#57
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
We need to be very careful that we separate out the two main aspects of this thread.
1. There is an increase in boat people coming to Australia since the Labour government relaxed the laws. (The relaxing of the laws may have had nothing to do with the increase, but it is a fact that the numbers have increased since the laws were changed).
2. There are some refugees with horrific injuries that need treatment.
Its important that we dont let the bleeding heart PC brigade hijack the debate about point one by beating us up about point 2.
I will not argue about treatment of the refugees injuries. That has to happen without question.
But we need to be very careful what signals we are sending out to the millions of people that want to leave third world hell holes and start a new life of luxury on social welfare in Australia.
Its only a few boats now, but that is probably what the Aborigines thought when the first fleet sailed into Botany Bay.
Australia needs to make a rational decision about what the demographic and social makeup of the country will be in the future to avoid any repeats of the Cronulla Riots.
Some of the recent violence in Sydney gives us some clues as to what lays in store if we keep binging in people that dont fit into our society.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-r...0328-9eri.html
1. There is an increase in boat people coming to Australia since the Labour government relaxed the laws. (The relaxing of the laws may have had nothing to do with the increase, but it is a fact that the numbers have increased since the laws were changed).
2. There are some refugees with horrific injuries that need treatment.
Its important that we dont let the bleeding heart PC brigade hijack the debate about point one by beating us up about point 2.
I will not argue about treatment of the refugees injuries. That has to happen without question.
But we need to be very careful what signals we are sending out to the millions of people that want to leave third world hell holes and start a new life of luxury on social welfare in Australia.
Its only a few boats now, but that is probably what the Aborigines thought when the first fleet sailed into Botany Bay.
Australia needs to make a rational decision about what the demographic and social makeup of the country will be in the future to avoid any repeats of the Cronulla Riots.
Some of the recent violence in Sydney gives us some clues as to what lays in store if we keep binging in people that dont fit into our society.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-r...0328-9eri.html
The rise and rise of new gangs
* Les Kennedy
* March 29, 2009
THEY call themselves MBM - the Muslim Brotherhood Movement - a gang of 600 men who boast they are the toughest and best young street fighters of Middle Eastern descent in
* Les Kennedy
* March 29, 2009
THEY call themselves MBM - the Muslim Brotherhood Movement - a gang of 600 men who boast they are the toughest and best young street fighters of Middle Eastern descent in
Even hardened private security guards have expressed concern to police about the indiscriminate "punch and run" tactics of MBM members who, in the past two weeks, have arrived in large numbers at city nightclub venues and who walk the streets in intimidating mobs. But the objectives of MBM - its emblem features two crossed pistols and a hand grenade - and its leadership remain unclear to officers of both the Organised Crime and Gang Squad and Middle Eastern Organised Crime Squad.
Police say that a fortnight ago MBM members embarked upon a campaign of random assaults on men who crossed the path of a mob of about 100 toughs stalking Darlinghurst and Kings Cross during the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras.
A week ago about 30 MBM members intimidated private security guards at government car auctions at Smithfield.
A week ago about 30 MBM members intimidated private security guards at government car auctions at Smithfield.
Police say BFL - with a logo featuring crossed machine-guns - is not dissimilar to MBM in its extremist views, but membership numbers are unknown. Police describe Asesinoz, comprising teenagers of Middle Eastern decent, as "tough kids" who use the video-sharing website YouTube to promote Islamic extremism and anti-Australian actions such as flag burning.
The group, which recently changed its name from the Parra Boyz, has more than 40 members, some of whom are known to police for committing acts of violence and vandalism.
The group, which recently changed its name from the Parra Boyz, has more than 40 members, some of whom are known to police for committing acts of violence and vandalism.
#58
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Unfortunately there are budget constraints, not unlimited financial resources.
Not everyone can be treated as it is, even without criminals pushing to the front.
There are many people on medical waiting lists all around the country. And some of these will have to be put back further, due to the time and resources being spent on these criminals.
All the doctors and nurses being used for these cases, have had to drop what they were doing, change surgery schedules etc., delay other operations etc...
If it was your son/daughter/mother that had waited for ages for an urgent operation, but was sidelined because because a criminal stuffed up and criminals got hurt, would you be happy ? or would you be like I suggested in my original post and feel that it is a bit unfair ?
Only a Saint would be happy for their innocent relative to be sidelined so a criminal can be looked after in priority.
If we lived in Utopia, with unlimited financial and medical staff resources, and everyone could be treated it may be different, but we don't. We have financial and staff resource restrictions.
Not everyone can be treated as it is, even without criminals pushing to the front.
There are many people on medical waiting lists all around the country. And some of these will have to be put back further, due to the time and resources being spent on these criminals.
All the doctors and nurses being used for these cases, have had to drop what they were doing, change surgery schedules etc., delay other operations etc...
If it was your son/daughter/mother that had waited for ages for an urgent operation, but was sidelined because because a criminal stuffed up and criminals got hurt, would you be happy ? or would you be like I suggested in my original post and feel that it is a bit unfair ?
Only a Saint would be happy for their innocent relative to be sidelined so a criminal can be looked after in priority.
If we lived in Utopia, with unlimited financial and medical staff resources, and everyone could be treated it may be different, but we don't. We have financial and staff resource restrictions.
#59
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
We need to be very careful that we separate out the two main aspects of this thread.
1. There is an increase in boat people coming to Australia since the Labour government relaxed the laws. (The relaxing of the laws may have had nothing to do with the increase, but it is a fact that the numbers have increased since the laws were changed).
2. There are some refugees with horrific injuries that need treatment.
Its important that we dont let the bleeding heart PC brigade hijack the debate about point one by beating us up about point 2.
I will not argue about treatment of the refugees injuries. That has to happen without question.
But we need to be very careful what signals we are sending out to the millions of people that want to leave third world hell holes and start a new life of luxury on social welfare in Australia.
Its only a few boats now, but that is probably what the Aborigines thought when the first fleet sailed into Botany Bay.
Australia needs to make a rational decision about what the demographic and social makeup of the country will be in the future to avoid any repeats of the Cronulla Riots.
Some of the recent violence in Sydney gives us some clues as to what lays in store if we keep binging in people that dont fit into our society.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-r...0328-9eri.html
1. There is an increase in boat people coming to Australia since the Labour government relaxed the laws. (The relaxing of the laws may have had nothing to do with the increase, but it is a fact that the numbers have increased since the laws were changed).
2. There are some refugees with horrific injuries that need treatment.
Its important that we dont let the bleeding heart PC brigade hijack the debate about point one by beating us up about point 2.
I will not argue about treatment of the refugees injuries. That has to happen without question.
But we need to be very careful what signals we are sending out to the millions of people that want to leave third world hell holes and start a new life of luxury on social welfare in Australia.
Its only a few boats now, but that is probably what the Aborigines thought when the first fleet sailed into Botany Bay.
Australia needs to make a rational decision about what the demographic and social makeup of the country will be in the future to avoid any repeats of the Cronulla Riots.
Some of the recent violence in Sydney gives us some clues as to what lays in store if we keep binging in people that dont fit into our society.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-r...0328-9eri.html
The point of the thread was to illustrate the heartless pricks putting a value on a human life.
As I said in the original post, treat them and let DIMA sort them out, it WAS NOT about illegal immigration.
If that turns me into a "bleeding heart PC brigade person" then fine.
This thread has shown several people up for what they are.