Robert Nicholso

I was in the UK recently when that real estate broker got stabbed for his car and the
media was going on about all the mobile phone muggings and that black kid's killers
were on trial with that "star witness"

I'm British and Australia and the only reason I'd not consider living in the UK today
is similar it has become much too violent a nation. Australia has a bad areas good
but the UK is far more violent than Australia.

"Purrrrr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > Absolutely Right Sopia. Live your Life! It can be so short. And, Dotty girl, THIS
    > is reality!
    >
    >
    > "sophia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Russell, I really don't blame you for moving away from Leeds, it really is
    > > getting frightnening, I just found out a pregnant woman was attacked on Albion
    > > Street (VV busy street in City Centre) and beaten to a pulp and passers-by did
    > > just that (pass-by) and left her lying there losing her baby. I tell you it's
    > > blooming sick!!!
    > >
    > > Don't get me wrong, as I said before, Britain has a lot of wonderful points, but
    > > sadly they are WAY outweighed by the bad! I can't wait to get my family away from
    > > it all.
    > >
    > > Claudia, your sentiments are mine too, that was another of the many reasons for
    > > leaving England. The rat race and keeping up with the Joneses is just not for me
    > > anymore.
    > >
    > > I used to have a high flying executive PA position within a blue chip firm and
    > > was very career driven, however, I've had my life put right into perspective as I
    > > got diagnosed with Breast Cancer whilst 8 months pregnant with my son. Luckily
    > > I'm nearly two years down the line and have finished all my awful treatments
    > > (chemo and radiotherapy), but the thing I've learnt is that cancers can be caused
    > > by stress (and believe me, my job was stressful!!) and I believe that doing my
    > > job certainly contributed to my illness although I don't think it was THE cause
    > > of it. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that life is way too short and you don't
    > > know when your number is up so get out there and grab what you can, cos you're a
    > > long time dead!!
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > sophia
    > >
    > > sophia
    > >
    > > sophia
    > >
    > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

dotty

I guess as I am living in Australia I must have been dreaming when the following happened.

The Granmothers who were raped in their 70's and 80's. The murder of several little girls and one suspected rape of a 21 months old. The constant attacks on nurses as they leave Brisbane Hospital to get to their cars. The syringe hold ups are so common now they hardly make the news anymore. The disappearance of about a dozen young women in brisbane, women usually going by car in the early evening. The constant bank and serice station hold ups. The 300% rise in crime in the centre of Brisbane. The rape and murder of two little girls on a Queensland beach in the middle of a sunday afternoon. The ba shing of the elderly targeted in their own homes. Drugs are here too by the way in a big big way, cheap too from what the school tells us.

We have had gun massacres too, in Tasmania and you cant get much more beautiful and quiet than that. Perth has wonderful Bikie gangland wars. I can assume from the papers that Sydney and Melbourne are equally as bad probably from the media I would assume worse. the sunday paper just ran a report on a housing estate in Melbourne that would certainly match the horror of any in Leeds London or probably Harlem. Race gangs
too unless the papers are lying.


I just dont get why the place in which I live is being toted as crime free. By the way we do not live in a slum area we live in a very upmarket suburb, and two days ago amazingly my husbands work vehicle was broken into again. Friends in country towns have exactly the same problems. I am just very very curious where all these crime free towns are.

Where on earth does this information that we are so clean of crime come from. Some of this stuff on here makes Australia sound like something out of the Boys Home Journal, or Edith Blyton "Famous Five have a jolly good time in Australia". Good show chaps but its 2002 not 1948.

dotty

Re: Lifesaving Some of the schools in Queensland have the Grade 12 kids do Lifesaving as part of PE. If they want to pass that section they have to do 2 shifts on the beach. No shifts no Pass. Up here you can be swept out in KNEE high water, the rips are that strong. 25 went out to sea from Alexandra Headland in waist height water. Also the water depth is inconsistent, gutters can dump you from 2 foot of water into 10 foot in a couple of footsteps. Some very intelligent kids in Queensland are out there every school holiday just trying to pass their exams. My daughter did her shifts on the beach and got some lovely bluebottle stings to prove it, but she passed and is now in University training to be a teacher, so I hope shes not too stupid!! No offence taken Chris. Cheers Dotty. As for me I stick to the pool.

Chris

"dotty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I guess as I am living in Australia I must have been dreaming when the following
    > happened.
    >
    > The Granmothers who were raped in their 70's and 80's.

Are you saying this doesn't happen anywhere else?

    > The murder of several little girls and one suspected rape of a 21 months
old.

There have been younger than that, unfortunately.

    > The constant attacks on nurses as they leave Brisbane Hospital to get to their
    > cars. The syringe hold ups are so common now they hardly make the news anymore.

You mean, the syringe hold ups aren't happening anymore so obviously there is less to
report. These crimes spiked at one stage, but they seem to have largely disappeared.

    > The disappearance of about a dozen young women in brisbane, women usually going by
    > car in the early evening.

Specifics? I can think of one.

    > The constant bank and serice station hold ups. The 300% rise in crime in the centre
    > of Brisbane.

What kind of crime? You mean the paint sniffing idiots?

    > The rape and murder of two little girls on a Queensland beach in the middle of a
    > sunday afternoon.

When did that happen?

    > The ba shing of the elderly targeted in their own homes. Drugs are here
too by the way in a big big
    > way, cheap too from what the school tells us.

This is not a uniquely Australian problem, and I suggest we have it better than some.
Break and enters (non-violent) are a problem which we have more of than other
countries.

    > I just dont get why the place in which I live is being toted as crime free.

Because compared to a lot of other places, it has significantly lower crime rates in
many areas.

    > By the way we do not live in a slum area we live in a very upmarket suburb, and two
    > days ago amazingly my husbands work vehicle was broken into again. Friends in
    > country towns have exactly the same problems. I am just very very curious where all
    > these crime free towns are.

Which suburb do you live in?

Chris

    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Chris

"dotty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Re: Lifesaving Some of the schools in Queensland have the Grade 12 kids do
    > Lifesaving as part of PE. If they want to pass that section they have to do 2
    > shifts on the beach. No shifts no Pass.

Then they should hardly complain, if they are interested in PE!

    > Up here you can be swept out in KNEE high water, the rips are that strong.

That sounds HIGHLY unbelievable. I've been to the beaches quite a bit at Coolum,
Noosa, Alex. Headland, and Maroochydore and I can safely say there have never been
any more dangerous waters than what we get down here at Main Beach, Kurrawa, Mermaid,
Nobby's or Kingscliff. *If* what you say is true, then I suspect the person who got
dragged out at knee high depth had a blood alcohol level of 1.00 LOL!

    > 25 went out to sea from Alexandra Headland in waist height water. Also the water
    > depth is inconsistent, gutters can dump you from 2 foot of water into 10 foot in a
    > couple of footsteps.

2 foot to 3-4 foot, yes... 10 foot, no. Not in a couple of steps. I've been to
beaches all my life, and I've never encountered drastic ditches like that, so I just
can't really believe that.

    > Some very intelligent kids in Queensland are out there every school holiday just
    > trying to pass their exams. My daughter did her shifts on the beach and got some
    > lovely bluebottle stings to prove it, but she passed and is now in University
    > training to be a teacher, so I hope shes not too stupid!

Did she have to actually save anyone? Usually the senio/full time lifeguards do most
of the work around here. The school kids keep a look out, do drills, and swim out
amongst the crowd to keep people from venturing out of the flags.

    > No offence taken Chris. Cheers Dotty. As for me I stick to the pool.

If you stick to the pool, how do you know about the 10 foot dips?

Chris

    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

sophia

Well argued Chris!

Dotty, no-one is disputing the fact that Australia has it's problems, I think most of us have a pretty good idea of what we are letting ourselves in for; what we are all trying to get away from is the constant crime in the UK. And with all due respect, you have absolutely no idea just how bad it is in the UK-I very much doubt that Australia is even in the same ball park.

I don't want to get into a dispute about whose crime is worst (as I KNOW that the UK will win hands down).

I suspect your idea and the UK people's ideas of how bad crime can be is worlds apart. However, you are very welcome to come and stay here in Leeds with me for a while (as long as you come over before we leave!!) just to compare, you understand.

love sophia x

fiona

Dotty, i want to say that many peole want to move into Australia for many different reasons. My hubby and myself wish for more space to move around in what we hope to be affordable housing, we are cramped in like battary hens and kids need space. I do, like many others see you point in many aspects, i feel sad that u've nothing much in the way of positive things to say about the country your living in, why? and more that u are so unhappy with ur little lot. Your child is educated well i feel, i hope she had a better time of it than my children are having now. If we could all send our children to private schools then we would, but we cant, so i will break a limb to try and give them that space to streach their minds in ways that this rat race in the uk can not...

Vladimir Menkov

In article <[email protected]>, dotty
<[email protected]> wrote:
    >... Up here you can be swept out in KNEE high water, the rips are that strong. 25
    >went out to sea from Alexandra Headland in waist height water. Also the water depth
    >is inconsistent, gutters can dump you from 2 foot of water into 10 foot in a couple
    >of footsteps. ... .... As for me I stick to the pool.

Do you have any freshwater (or "brackish-water") beaches out there? I know there
aren't a lot of big rivers in Australia, but you have lakes here and there (mostly
artifiial reservoirs, I guess). Or are most of such lakes used for city water supply,
and thus are off-limits to swimmers?

(As an aside, it is interesting how the idea of where beaches are is different
between the USA and Canada. For an American, "going to a beach" seems to mainly mean
going to an ocean beach; you fairly really see a decent legal beach on a lake or a
river, even though they have plenty of lakes and rivers all over the country. Partly,
I guess, this is due to water pollution, partly because of private property rights,
partly because many reservoirs are reserved for city water supply and are closed
areas (as is the case with most lakes in Westechester County north of New York City);
but mostly, due to some kind of preconceptions embedded in both people's and
authorities' minds: after all, even when there is a legal beach on a lake in a state
park, it is often legally open for only two months of a year, July-August, even
though weather is often almost just as hot from May thru September.

On the other hand, we in Canada have three oceans of course, but they are mostly
cold, and places that do get warmer (like the strait between New Brunswick and Prince
Edward Island) are very out of the way for most people. So for most Canadians, "a
beach" is a lake beach.)

--Vladimir (Penticton, BC, Canada)

Doc

"fiona" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Dotty, i want to say that many peole want to move into Australia for many different
    > reasons. My hubby and myself wish for more space to move around in what we hope to
    > be affordable housing, we are cramped in like battary hens and kids need space.....

Well, I've been reading the posts here and they're pretty depressing. So here is my
contribution (which is even more depressing!!)

Most of the people who post here seem to be from the cities. They have reasons for
the things they say - good reasons!!

Unfortunately cities are always the same in every part of the world. If you move to
some areas of Aus you'll find Leeds all over again.

We are 'bushies'. We live in rural Australia, 160 kms. to nearest bank and shopping
centre etc. We don't see cars out of our windows, we see deer (we're in deer country)
and kangaroos. If we get bored there's a dam full of fish (silver perch, about 0.75
kg average) maybe 20 metres from where I'm sitting now. We are visited regularly by
possums demanding food. They'll come into the house and climb onto your knee if
there's no other way (ouch! claws!) There are Galahs, Cockatoos, Goannas, Bandicoots
Scrub Turkeys (We have one that does vulture imitations on the roof unless you bribe
him with a slice of bread) etc.etc.....

EVERYONE here is as friendly as you would wish. There is a thriving artistic
community here, choral groups, craft associations, C.W.A. (Country Woman's
Association). etc. There is a hotel ('pub') only about 20 km. away. There are school
buses (nearest small school about 20 km. A couple of small communities (about 300 -
500 people) within about a half hour drive.

We see our immediate neighbours perhaps once a month.

If this isn't heaven it's a damned good copy.

OK we have problems too. There are bushfires (the last stopped 10 metres from our
house). We keep firearms in the house because we don't raise animals for the wild
dogs to eat or vegetables as a dietary supplement for the wild pigs. Television
reception is poor to nonexistent. We collect rainwater for drinking purposes - when
it rains! The animals here aren't particularly dangerous (except the odd snake or two
and the crocs up north) but the country will kill you. We had a friend who nearly
died of thirst on his own property when his truck broke down and he'd forgotten to
take water. He has 139 square kilometres though. If the car breaks down the mechanic
will come out from town and fix it but it takes time.

We don't see migrants out here, but for us this is the real Australia. We wouldn't
live in a city for any reason.

It's not an easy life and it's still what would have been called a 'man's country'
before political correctness. There's ALWAYS room for a few more good people - if
they can adapt to the leisurely pace and the rather 'pioneering' lifestyle.

This is everything a city is not!

Think about it!

Helena

"Vladimir Menkov" <[email protected]> wrote
    > dotty <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >... Up here you can be swept out in KNEE high water, the rips are that strong. 25
    > >went out to sea from Alexandra Headland in waist height water. Also the water
    > >depth is inconsistent, gutters can dump you from 2 foot of water into 10 foot in a
    > >couple of footsteps. ... .... As for me I stick to the pool.
    >
    > Do you have any freshwater (or "brackish-water") beaches out there? I know there
    > aren't a lot of big rivers in Australia, but you have lakes here and there (mostly
    > artifiial reservoirs, I guess). Or are most of such lakes used for city water
    > supply, and thus are off-limits to swimmers?

Here in southern W.A., there are quite a few lakes. You can walk on many of them, or
drive on them. Not much good for swimming. Some are amazing salt pans, quite
beautiful in their own way. The ones around Perth are mostly for the birds. I don't
think I've seen anyone swim in them. Not too inviting. Many have big parks around
them for you to enjoy though.

Rivers? With a few exceptions, most would be more appropriately labelled "streams",
or "dry creek-beds". In Perth, we've got the Swan River which is quite large and many
swim in, sail on, windsurf, waterski, etc. I don't know, to me there's nothing nicer
than the ocean for swimming. I don't like brackish water, or anything that ducks or
swans poo in. I guess I'm spoiled. Most mornings the beach nearest me is like a
humungous never-ending swimming pool - calm, clear, blue, gorgeous, refreshing. The
waves start around noon. Best thing when I finish my morning run on the path that
goes along the coast, is to take my running shoes off and dunk myself in that "pool".
Aaaaaaaahhh. Heaven.

During the summer, many rivers don't run, they just sort of dribble along, and there
will be signs up telling you not to swim in them because you can pick up some awful
bacteria that flourishes in the warm water. Forgot what disease it causes,
encephalitis or something like that. And you have to be careful to properly maintain
your pool, with a higher chlorine level to avoid similar problems.

    > (As an aside, it is interesting how the idea of where beaches are is different
    > between the USA and Canada. For an American, "going to a beach" seems to mainly
    > mean going to an ocean beach; you fairly really see a decent legal beach on a lake
    > or a river, even though they have plenty of lakes and rivers all over the country.
    > Partly, I guess, this is due to water pollution, partly because of private
    > property rights,

Speaking of property rights, my father-in-law has a country place in the Laurentians
north of Montreal, and the lake edge and access is divided up amongst owners, which I
find weird. Non-owners can access the lake via a small pier but you can't go to the
lake for an afternoon with your kids and pick a spot to hang around in because all
areas around the lake "belong" to someone. And I remember seeing another lake where
the only access to it was owned, and you had to pay the owner to use it. That bothers
me. I'm glad we don't have that here.

    > partly because many reservoirs are reserved for city water supply and are
    > closed areas (as is the case with most lakes in Westechester County north of
    > New York City);

We've got weirs that are water supplies and are therefore no-go areas too.

    > On the other hand, we in Canada have three oceans of course, but they are mostly
    > cold, and places that do get warmer (like the strait between New Brunswick and
    > Prince Edward Island) are very out of the way for most people. So for most
    > Canadians, "a beach" is a lake beach.)

Vancouver's got some okay beaches. Just very cold. And the water is grey and has
logs floating around. No surf because Vancouver Island is in the way. But very
pretty nevertheless. To look at or sail on. I could never get into swimming there
though. Too cold.

Even many Americans think of a lake as a "beach", particularly those around the Great
Lakes. I remember visiting friends in Cleveland and they took me to a "beach" on Lake
Erie, which is probably nothing more than toxic soup. It was disgusting, with dead
fish floating on the top. I didn't go in because I didn't want my future offspring to
be born with two heads. I wasn't impressed with Lake Ontario either. Lake Superior
was very nice, near the top end. Cleaner but freezing, even in middle of summer. I
jumped in with my friends and thought I was going to have a heart attack and an
aneurism from the shock of the cold. Not for me.

    > --Vladimir (Penticton, BC, Canada)

Aaah, the Okanagan! Well, you're probably the exception in Canada as far as decent
lake beaches. At least it gets nice and hot for you during summer. I've been swimming
there. Not bad. Very crowded though.

Good luck,

Helena

Helena

"shaunlor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > the one thing i fail to see recognised on these sites is the diffrence in climate
    > from one end of your country (hopefully my country soon) to the other. here it is
    > very very cold and wet in scotland and in sothern england where i am it is only
    > very wet and cold,

So you can appreciate the climate differences here in this vast country. The top
third of Oz is in the Tropics. Basically they have two seasons - the Wet (during
the summer), and the Dry (winter). The Wet means lots of downpours and humidity.
Hot and sticky. Cyclone season. The Dry means much less rain, more sunny days,
slightly cooler temps, quite pleasant. "Southerners" head north for winter
holidays, particularly Mexicans (what Queenslanders call Victorians). The southern
summer varies across the country, with Tasmania having the mildest temperatures,
and Perth and Adelaide having several days of crackling dry, hot temps, with
residents praying for rain. Sydney will be more humid, not as hot, with more rain.
Melbourne is all over the place - stinking hot one day (or morning), and at least
ten degrees cooler the next day or that afternoon, a bit of rain, some sun, etc.
People will say it rains a lot in Melbourne, but actually Sydney and Brisbane get
much more rain during the year.

    > my dad lives in sothern victoria and it would appear that the weather there is a
    > lot more acceptable to a pomm like me who cant handle the heat too well. yes he
    > does let me know of the ocasional days that hit the hundred, but mainly it would
    > seem the temp around his area is about 5 degrees warmer than were i am at the
    > moment (average),

My advice to you and to anyone who can't handle the heat too well - don't try to do
like many Australians and live without some basic creature comforts, such as
air-conditioning and ceiling insulation. It's the equivalent of living in some
Northern Hemisphere areas without insulation or central heating. You can do it, but
not comfortably. Many will say "oh, it doesn't get hot often enough here to warrant
insulation or aircon." I disagree. Many Aussies still view that stuff as luxuries. It
was when I was growing up here. Less people think that way now, although many still
do, thinking it's way too expensive (not). You don't have to do your whole house -
just buy a wall-mounted unit, which if positioned correctly can make a lot of your
house much more comfortable. I finally convinced my dad to get one of those and he
said that he wished he had done it years earlier. The point is to not refrigerate
your house, just to make it more pleasant. If nothing else, insulate your ceilings if
they're not already. It helps summer and winter.

My family lives outside of Melbourne. Whenever we've visited in summer, it's been
very hot. And uncomfortable. I'm from Perth and I find our heat to be more pleasant
than what I've experienced in Victoria. There it's stickier (not as humid as Brisbane
but not as dry as Perth), and there's no lovely seabreezes to take the edge off the
heat, as we have here.

My ex-Montrealer husband said the other week that Perth's weather is the best in the
world. I've always known that. Summer is not continually hot, although most years
we'll experience a heatwave of a week or two, but not this year. We get a day or two
or three of mid to high 30's, followed by a day or two or three of cooler temps, and
so on. Afternoon seabreezes kick in around 2pm, taking the edge off the heat. Most
nights are quite pleasant. More pleasant than what I've experienced during hot
Victorian nights (dead still air, not a puff of wind). It's sunny for most of the
year and doesn't rain much, mostly during winter when it's supposed to. Even many
winter days can be sunny and around 19 or 20 degrees. Beautiful weather. Nights get
chilly - all the way down to 2 sometimes but mostly around 7.

im sure i could not handle living in
    > queensland. but im sure we will be fine as far as weather is concerned down south.
    > i hope im not too far off the mark here.

You'll be fine. Lots of Poms here in Perth and they handle it fine. Some can't handle
the heat though. Everyone is different. Your first summer (if it's a hot one) could
be difficult on you. You might doubt you can ever handle it. But you get accustomed
to it. It'll be less unpleasant the next summer, and so on.

Good luck,

Helena

dotty

It is Sad that Chris can't believe what I have written.

For starters the two little girls murdered at Kawana on a sunday afternoon, well one of them was my daughters classmate at the time.... I cannot even imagine what standards a person would have to have to make that up, that is a very sick suggestion.

Sorry mate but I just dont have the time to sit here and Lie.

If people are planning to move here and think it is a crime free dreamland paradise, i image they will be in for one hell of a shock when they arrive why dont they have the right to know we have crime etc? I'm sure I'd rather base my decisions on fact then a fairy story, especially if I was giving up my job, family and home. Sorry but I live in the real world.

By the way Australia has not given me a sad little life. I worked 80 hours a week and have that Big house you all rave about. So what, I cannot believe anyone thinks a bit of brick and a few plastic posessions make up for a Family. Does having Big rooms make up for not seeing your family? well it doesn't for me just a bit on the shallow side I think.

Base your decisions on FACTS and like many you will do well, but leave the rose tinted glassed at home we are a real country with real poblems. I think this country needs many more immigrants but they must be aware of the real way of life here not the storybook image or it wont work out for them.

Jaj

Dotty I've been following this thread with interest, although not replied up to now.

To an extent I think you've done people a service, in pointing out that Australia has
problems of it's own, and is *not* for everybody.

But for those who are looking simply for sunshine and space, then Australia will suit
*provided* they are prepared to adapt and be flexible. And I don't think most people
come to Australia with the vision of a dreamland paradise, especially if they've
taken the trouble to go to Australia on a holiday in advance (with with the mindset
of viewing Australia as a place to live, not a holiday destination).

Leaving family behind is of course a problem with migration. It always has been,
although now phone calls (with discount providers) are cheap, email is possible, and
travel costs much lower in relation to wages than they were for previous generations
of migrants. But you are right that the issue needs to be well thought through in
advance by anyone planning to migrate.

What you've not said is whether the UK or Australia offers a better life.

Jeremy

    >On 8 Mar 2002 23:02:57 -0600, dotty <[email protected]> wrote:

    >It is Sad that Chris can't believe what I have written.
    >
    >For starters the two little girls murdered at Kawana on a sunday afternoon, well one
    >of them was my daughters classmate at the time.... I cannot even imagine what
    >standards a person would have to have to make that up, that is a very sick
    >suggestion.
    >
    >Sorry mate but I just dont have the time to sit here and Lie.
    >
    >If people are planning to move here and think it is a crime free dreamland paradise,
    >i image they will be in for one hell of a shock when they arrive why dont they have
    >the right to know we have crime etc? I'm sure I'd rather base my decisions on fact
    >then a fairy story, especially if I was giving up my job, family and home. Sorry but
    >I live in the real world.
    >
    >By the way Australia has not given me a sad little life. I worked 80 hours a week
    >and have that Big house you all rave about. So what, I cannot believe anyone thinks
    >a bit of brick and a few plastic posessions make up for a Family. Does having Big
    >rooms make up for not seeing your family? well it doesn't for me just a bit on the
    >shallow side I think.
    >
    >Base your decisions on FACTS and like many you will do well, but leave the rose
    >tinted glassed at home we are a real country with real poblems. I think this country
    >needs many more immigrants but they must be aware of the real way of life here not
    >the storybook image or it wont work out for them.
    >
    >
    >
    >--
    >Posted via http://britishexpats.com

dotty

Sophia, thank you for your offer. but we spent 6 months in the uk in late 2000. manchester and Yorkshire and shortly in London. My mum was Sick so we went over. Before anybody asks why we came back here it was only for the usual reason. The dollar, we are stuck till it rises (if it rises). How long since you have been in OZ it sounds like quite a while.

Chris, it is wonderful how patriotic you are, hopefully tho it will still allow you to feel others can print their experiences here without you denying everything they say. Surely a forum has room for more than one opinion.

Chris

"dotty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > It is Sad that Chris can't believe what I have written.

I do not believe your *exaggerations* about the dangers at the beach, especially when
you said yourself you don't even use the beach. I also do not believe your doom &
gloom attitude to crime here. Comparatively, we have it pretty good, no matter what
sicko crimes you can dig up. Also, seeing as you continue to totally snip the
previous post, it makes it kind of hard to see what you are replying to.

    > For starters the two little girls murdered at Kawana on a sunday afternoon, well
    > one of them was my daughters classmate at the time.... I cannot even imagine what
    > standards a person would have to have to make that up, that is a very sick
    > suggestion.

Did I say you made any of those crimes up? Perhaps you could quote me on that. I
asked you to cite some cases. Previously, you did not. If you've got some now, great,
let us hear them. The problem I have with your "analysis" of crime around here is
that you seem to be taking a good 5-10 years of crime and wrapping it up into the
present, as if they are all ongoing. "Granny rapes" happen now and then... usually
many are done by the one sick individual. When that person's caught, that kind of
crime doesn't show up again for years.

    > Sorry mate but I just dont have the time to sit here and Lie.

No, but your retelling of crime seems to be largely exaggerated by the use of vague
plurals rather than specifics or any real facts.

    > If people are planning to move here and think it is a crime free dreamland
    > paradise, i image they will be in for one hell of a shock when they arrive why dont
    > they have the right to know we have crime etc? I'm sure I'd rather base my
    > decisions on fact then a fairy story, especially if I was giving up my job, family
    > and home. Sorry but I live in the real world.

If you wanted to give them facts, why not give them some websites to look at so that
they can see the real crime rates? The move here for them is very important, and if
they decide to give up on it because they listened to your version of events, I think
that would be a tremendous shame. Give them real evidence. Instead what you did say
was far closer to a fairy tale:

"The Granmothers who were raped in their 70's and 80's."

How many? Be specific? Was it two or three, or 400?

"The murder of several little girls and one suspected rape of a 21 months old."

Above you said "two" little girls, but previously we see you said "several". If
you're referring to other cases, be a bit more specific.

"The constant attacks on nurses as they leave Brisbane Hospital to get to
their cars."

How constant? Everyday? How many nurses have *really* been attacked?

"The syringe hold ups are so common now they hardly make the news anymore."

This one is absolute garbage. If they were as common as this, there would be Sunday
paper lift outs on them. This kind of news sells papers!

"The disappearance of about a dozen young women in brisbane, women usually going by
car in the early evening."

A dozen? As I said, I can only remember one or two... perhaps you could enlighten me
to the other ten cases?

"The constant bank and serice station hold ups."

Are they more constant than in the UK?

"The 300% rise in crime in the centre of Brisbane."

Is this a real figure or an "about that" figure you concoted by reading the paper?
300% rise since when?

"The rape and murder of two little girls on a Queensland beach in the middle of a
sunday afternoon."

This is better, because you've actually narrowed it down to an incident.

"The bashing of the elderly targeted in their own homes."

Break and enters are more frequent here than the US, but that is the only section of
crime I believe this country is falling behind in controlling, compared with other
modernised nations.

"Drugs are here too by the way in a big big way, cheap too from what the school
tells us."

This one is not surprising. Drugs are not a foreign force in the UK either.

    > By the way Australia has not given me a sad little life. I worked 80 hours a week
    > and have that Big house you all rave about. So what, I cannot believe anyone thinks
    > a bit of brick and a few plastic posessions make up for a Family. Does having Big
    > rooms make up for not seeing your family? well it doesn't for me just a bit on the
    > shallow side I think.

Well you're the one who worked 80 hours a week to get the house, so who are you
calling shallow? You chose work over family... what does this have to do with other
people coming here to live? Surely they can make their own choices about balancing
work and possessions. Many of them also seem to be on above average incomes (avg.
income is just over $36,000 AUD), so it may not be as difficult as it was for you.

    > Base your decisions on FACTS and like many you will do well, but leave the rose
    > tinted glassed at home we are a real country with real poblems. I think this
    > country needs many more immigrants but they must be aware of the real way of life
    > here not the storybook image or it wont work out for them.

I understand what you're trying to say, but unfortunately I think you've taken it too
far, to the point you look like you're trying to scare people off. If you really want
to provide them with the truth on crime rates, send them to the ABS
(http://www.abs.com.au) and at least cite your cases from a reliable source.

Chris

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