A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
Aug 30th 2010, 9:18 am
#1
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A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
Following on from the announcement of a possible skilled trade shortage down here I thought I would offer my two cents on the subject, as (which ever government we will end up with) if they are going to sort out the shortage with home grown apprentices then its going to a be long wait.
Was working as a mature age plumbing apprentice last year until laid off through lack of work and found pretty much the whole system catered for school leavers along with many of the incentives for employers. Nothing wrong with this you might say however many of the youngsters fall foul of the system by being laid off at the drop of a hat and/or quitting after not completing the required years. Trust me there are a lot of useless bosses out there who simply want to use the cheap labour provided by apprentices whilst not training them at all.
Although many of the trades eg plumbing, chippy, boilermaker are all competency based if attending the TAFE training colleges (the quicker you show satisfactory performance the quicker you progress), this does however mean nothing as it all comes down to your boss signing you off into your next year. As I found out this also means them increasing your wage which they maybe unable to afford (given that certain trades are vulnerable to downturns especailly builders), so again you are at the whim of your immediate boss in actually qualifying or progressing through the apprenticeship wether you are competent or not.
The fact that you have to be 'employed as an apprentice' before you can complete these competencies at TAFE is where the system falls down in Australia. In the UK you can enrol on a City and Guilds course at a registered training centre independant of an employer and learn the theory before going out as semi trained tradesperson and then get your experience on the job. This is far better for mature age apprentices who are more likely to make a serious go of their respective trade and complete the course and for the school leavers (especially if they've paid money for it). I realise that alot of tradies both expat and native will scream in horror at this idea, but there in lies the problem especially with the Unions who have a vice like grip on the trades down here and seem to hate any change to the status quo.
To any expat parents of sons & daughters and/or potential mature age apprentices who are wanting start an apprenticeship down under consider these points first:
1.Try for a larger and well established company, make sure the boss and company are reputable and are not going to use them as cheap labour!
2. Make sure that boss/company has you always enrolled for the next TAFE module (which btw is way underfunded and never has enough places available, hence the need for more de regulation).
3. If still in the UK before coming over, time and money permitting try a City and Gulids course in the respective trade as this can go towards some recognition of prior learning and on the the recomendation of skillstech/tafe you can potentially qualify sooner rather than having to do a full 4 years. This website can offer more info:
apprenticeship.http://www.skillstech.tafe.qld.gov.au/
4. If you are NOT a permanent resident then you will NOT qualify for any of the incentives such as tools for trade or the wages uplift
5. If you are trying to find an employer to take you on as an apprentice hand your CV's in to a trade supply shop eg for plumbing Reece, Tradelink (Dont even bother looking on seek or careerone)
Lastly BE WARNED some of the tradies down under think this is still the nineteenth century in the way they speak to and treat school leavers and as I've seen myself especially if the younger apprentice has a pommie accent expect to cop alot of it! (Did not cop it myself being older and uglier, although one idiot did try and regretted it!) Obviously this comes with the territory and depends which trade you are learning but if you're a good tradie it doesn’t mean you are a good teacher also. However if you can overcome these minus points then it is worth it especially if you're wanting to be sparkie (they CAN make the most money) and there are some decent Aussie tradies out there some where.....
Was working as a mature age plumbing apprentice last year until laid off through lack of work and found pretty much the whole system catered for school leavers along with many of the incentives for employers. Nothing wrong with this you might say however many of the youngsters fall foul of the system by being laid off at the drop of a hat and/or quitting after not completing the required years. Trust me there are a lot of useless bosses out there who simply want to use the cheap labour provided by apprentices whilst not training them at all.
Although many of the trades eg plumbing, chippy, boilermaker are all competency based if attending the TAFE training colleges (the quicker you show satisfactory performance the quicker you progress), this does however mean nothing as it all comes down to your boss signing you off into your next year. As I found out this also means them increasing your wage which they maybe unable to afford (given that certain trades are vulnerable to downturns especailly builders), so again you are at the whim of your immediate boss in actually qualifying or progressing through the apprenticeship wether you are competent or not.
The fact that you have to be 'employed as an apprentice' before you can complete these competencies at TAFE is where the system falls down in Australia. In the UK you can enrol on a City and Guilds course at a registered training centre independant of an employer and learn the theory before going out as semi trained tradesperson and then get your experience on the job. This is far better for mature age apprentices who are more likely to make a serious go of their respective trade and complete the course and for the school leavers (especially if they've paid money for it). I realise that alot of tradies both expat and native will scream in horror at this idea, but there in lies the problem especially with the Unions who have a vice like grip on the trades down here and seem to hate any change to the status quo.
To any expat parents of sons & daughters and/or potential mature age apprentices who are wanting start an apprenticeship down under consider these points first:
1.Try for a larger and well established company, make sure the boss and company are reputable and are not going to use them as cheap labour!
2. Make sure that boss/company has you always enrolled for the next TAFE module (which btw is way underfunded and never has enough places available, hence the need for more de regulation).
3. If still in the UK before coming over, time and money permitting try a City and Gulids course in the respective trade as this can go towards some recognition of prior learning and on the the recomendation of skillstech/tafe you can potentially qualify sooner rather than having to do a full 4 years. This website can offer more info:
apprenticeship.http://www.skillstech.tafe.qld.gov.au/
4. If you are NOT a permanent resident then you will NOT qualify for any of the incentives such as tools for trade or the wages uplift
5. If you are trying to find an employer to take you on as an apprentice hand your CV's in to a trade supply shop eg for plumbing Reece, Tradelink (Dont even bother looking on seek or careerone)
Lastly BE WARNED some of the tradies down under think this is still the nineteenth century in the way they speak to and treat school leavers and as I've seen myself especially if the younger apprentice has a pommie accent expect to cop alot of it! (Did not cop it myself being older and uglier, although one idiot did try and regretted it!) Obviously this comes with the territory and depends which trade you are learning but if you're a good tradie it doesn’t mean you are a good teacher also. However if you can overcome these minus points then it is worth it especially if you're wanting to be sparkie (they CAN make the most money) and there are some decent Aussie tradies out there some where.....
Aug 31st 2010, 12:02 pm
#2
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
Good post. Seems you are onto something 
What you are talking about sounds a little like a Gillard proposal:
Meanwhile, Prime Minster Julia Gillard has unveiled the first major policy designed to tackle Australia's skills crisis, announcing that her Government would introduce a national trade cadetships program to help secondary students make the transition from school to an apprenticeship.
Under the $3 million program, secondary students who do not plan to pursue a university degree will be able to enter the national trade cadetships program while still at school.
Gillard says the qualification earned via the program will be recognised as part of a standard apprenticeship training program.
"It's an important step forward because it makes it easier for kids who want to get a qualification that is recognised," Gillard told reporters this morning.
She said the program would stand alongside the Government's current vocational skills programs, which currently involve more than 220,000 school students. However, Gillard says many of these vocational student training programs are not recognised outside the schools system.
(http://www.smartcompany.com.au/polit...adetships.html)
What you are talking about sounds a little like a Gillard proposal:Meanwhile, Prime Minster Julia Gillard has unveiled the first major policy designed to tackle Australia's skills crisis, announcing that her Government would introduce a national trade cadetships program to help secondary students make the transition from school to an apprenticeship.
Under the $3 million program, secondary students who do not plan to pursue a university degree will be able to enter the national trade cadetships program while still at school.
Gillard says the qualification earned via the program will be recognised as part of a standard apprenticeship training program.
"It's an important step forward because it makes it easier for kids who want to get a qualification that is recognised," Gillard told reporters this morning.
She said the program would stand alongside the Government's current vocational skills programs, which currently involve more than 220,000 school students. However, Gillard says many of these vocational student training programs are not recognised outside the schools system.
(http://www.smartcompany.com.au/polit...adetships.html)
Sep 1st 2010, 8:00 am
#3
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Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
Good post. Seems you are onto something What you are talking about sounds a little like a Gillard proposal:
Meanwhile, Prime Minster Julia Gillard has unveiled the first major policy designed to tackle Australia's skills crisis, announcing that her Government would introduce a national trade cadetships program to help secondary students make the transition from school to an apprenticeship.
Under the $3 million program, secondary students who do not plan to pursue a university degree will be able to enter the national trade cadetships program while still at school.
Gillard says the qualification earned via the program will be recognised as part of a standard apprenticeship training program.
"It's an important step forward because it makes it easier for kids who want to get a qualification that is recognised," Gillard told reporters this morning.
She said the program would stand alongside the Government's current vocational skills programs, which currently involve more than 220,000 school students. However, Gillard says many of these vocational student training programs are not recognised outside the schools system.
(http://www.smartcompany.com.au/polit...adetships.html)
What you are talking about sounds a little like a Gillard proposal:Meanwhile, Prime Minster Julia Gillard has unveiled the first major policy designed to tackle Australia's skills crisis, announcing that her Government would introduce a national trade cadetships program to help secondary students make the transition from school to an apprenticeship.
Under the $3 million program, secondary students who do not plan to pursue a university degree will be able to enter the national trade cadetships program while still at school.
Gillard says the qualification earned via the program will be recognised as part of a standard apprenticeship training program.
"It's an important step forward because it makes it easier for kids who want to get a qualification that is recognised," Gillard told reporters this morning.
She said the program would stand alongside the Government's current vocational skills programs, which currently involve more than 220,000 school students. However, Gillard says many of these vocational student training programs are not recognised outside the schools system.
(http://www.smartcompany.com.au/polit...adetships.html)
The whole system is out of date and needs changing but by the looks of it from what you're saying Labor are still going to concentrate on the school leavers!
Sep 1st 2010, 8:10 am
#4
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Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
I gotta a few English/Scottish tradie mates here..chippies,plumbers and a spark and they will only take on expat apprentices...they prefer them because they know that their familys will support them in getting to the end of their apprenticeship...so I guess the "system" is starting to correct itself a little bit
Sep 1st 2010, 8:36 am
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Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
I gotta a few English/Scottish tradie mates here..chippies,plumbers and a spark and they will only take on expat apprentices...they prefer them because they know that their familys will support them in getting to the end of their apprenticeship...so I guess the "system" is starting to correct itself a little bit
Sep 1st 2010, 1:53 pm
#6
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Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
oh im worried now! my son is currently at college (mechanic course)..our plans were for him to continue with this over there at tafe!!..this doesnt seem to be as easy as we thought, after reading your thread 
..we cant seem to find out much information...any more info would be a great help!..this is my first post!!..so far im finding this really helpful 
Sep 2nd 2010, 1:05 am
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Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
oh im worried now! my son is currently at college (mechanic course)..our plans were for him to continue with this over there at tafe!!..this doesnt seem to be as easy as we thought, after reading your thread ..we cant seem to find out much information...any more info would be a great help!..this is my first post!!..so far im finding this really helpful I found the same problems trying to research Oz apprenticeships in the UK there isn't hardly any relevent info on how to start or go about finding an apprenticeship if you are an immigrant.
Alot will depend if you are going to be granted PR (Permanent Residency) straight away. Get you're son booked in for RPL assesment as soon as you land down under this website as an example might help:
http://www.wit.tafensw.edu.au/course...nition-and-rpl
Each state has its own TAFE institute (to make matters more complicated) so the process will vary. Also get it booked ASAP as the priority is always given to Australian and NOT new arrivals sadly. Depending on what tafe say on their recommendation he will need a job placement FIRST before he can start the modules he needs to complete. This again will depend on if you are a PR and then the employer and your son will be entitled to the Benefits.
As I've said before its all (at the moment until the idiots in charge realise it needs reform)designed for home grown school leavers so dont expect any special treatment I'm afraid. It all depends on finding an employer who will sponsor your son. This site might help also:
http://getaccess.wa.gov.au/careers/p...data/OCC34.asp
Any other questions fire em my way! Good luck!
Sep 3rd 2010, 7:57 am
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Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
thanks for all your advice exsquaddie..whats a rpl assesment?..he has a australian passport/citizenship..due to decent.so it looks pretty much like nothing really can be done until we touch down in oz!..employment for him must be found first! do you think this will be a difficult thing?..at the moment he is considering staying here to finish off his mechanic course!..but still when he gets there he will have to find employment to finish off his training!!..i must again thank for the links..its western australia were looking at with hubby being a plasterer (apparently more construction work there)..anyway the tafe there seems to be quite far out!..ive google mappep it..they all seem to be 200/300k inland
so lots of travelling..were still undecided on area!..all giving me headaches 
...just looking to the fact all will be worth it!..
Sep 3rd 2010, 1:40 pm
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Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
Youre welcome tenpoundpom! It will make life so much easier for you that youre son is a true blue Aus citizen! Even if the way they way go about it down here is well out of date!
Sorry my ex-army days coming through there (hense the user name!) RPL stands for Recognition of Prior Learning so that TAFE will assess his skills that have been learn't so far and then give a recommendation as to how many competences he has completed.
Good Luck any way!
Any other questions fire em my way have got lots of experience with apprenticeships down here by learning the hard way!
PS there are some other fishy smelling ex-British servicemen on BE who make use of acronyms so BEAWARE!
Sorry my ex-army days coming through there (hense the user name!) RPL stands for Recognition of Prior Learning so that TAFE will assess his skills that have been learn't so far and then give a recommendation as to how many competences he has completed.
Good Luck any way!
Any other questions fire em my way have got lots of experience with apprenticeships down here by learning the hard way!PS there are some other fishy smelling ex-British servicemen on BE who make use of acronyms so BEAWARE!
Sep 3rd 2010, 3:33 pm
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Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
thanks again you have been most helpful Youre welcome tenpoundpom! It will make life so much easier for you that youre son is a true blue Aus citizen! Even if the way they way go about it down here is well out of date!
Sorry my ex-army days coming through there (hense the user name!) RPL stands for Recognition of Prior Learning so that TAFE will assess his skills that have been learn't so far and then give a recommendation as to how many competences he has completed.
Good Luck any way! Any other questions fire em my way have got lots of experience with apprenticeships down here by learning the hard way!
PS there are some other fishy smelling ex-British servicemen on BE who make use of acronyms so BEAWARE!
Sorry my ex-army days coming through there (hense the user name!) RPL stands for Recognition of Prior Learning so that TAFE will assess his skills that have been learn't so far and then give a recommendation as to how many competences he has completed.
Good Luck any way!
Any other questions fire em my way have got lots of experience with apprenticeships down here by learning the hard way!PS there are some other fishy smelling ex-British servicemen on BE who make use of acronyms so BEAWARE!
Sep 3rd 2010, 5:47 pm
#11
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Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide, somewhere
Posts: 14,180
Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
Youre welcome tenpoundpom! It will make life so much easier for you that youre son is a true blue Aus citizen! Even if the way they way go about it down here is well out of date!
Sorry my ex-army days coming through there (hense the user name!) RPL stands for Recognition of Prior Learning so that TAFE will assess his skills that have been learn't so far and then give a recommendation as to how many competences he has completed.
Good Luck any way! Any other questions fire em my way have got lots of experience with apprenticeships down here by learning the hard way!
PS there are some other fishy smelling ex-British servicemen on BE who make use of acronyms so BEAWARE!
Sorry my ex-army days coming through there (hense the user name!) RPL stands for Recognition of Prior Learning so that TAFE will assess his skills that have been learn't so far and then give a recommendation as to how many competences he has completed.
Good Luck any way!
Any other questions fire em my way have got lots of experience with apprenticeships down here by learning the hard way!PS there are some other fishy smelling ex-British servicemen on BE who make use of acronyms so BEAWARE!
20 months to go so definitely RDP so DSMSMR
Sep 4th 2010, 1:40 am
#13
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Location: Brisbane
Posts: 121
Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
Youre welcome tenpoundpom! It will make life so much easier for you that youre son is a true blue Aus citizen! Even if the way they way go about it down here is well out of date!
Sorry my ex-army days coming through there (hense the user name!) RPL stands for Recognition of Prior Learning so that TAFE will assess his skills that have been learn't so far and then give a recommendation as to how many competences he has completed.
Good Luck any way! Any other questions fire em my way have got lots of experience with apprenticeships down here by learning the hard way!
PS there are some other fishy smelling ex-British servicemen on BE who make use of acronyms so BEAWARE!
Sorry my ex-army days coming through there (hense the user name!) RPL stands for Recognition of Prior Learning so that TAFE will assess his skills that have been learn't so far and then give a recommendation as to how many competences he has completed.
Good Luck any way!
Any other questions fire em my way have got lots of experience with apprenticeships down here by learning the hard way!PS there are some other fishy smelling ex-British servicemen on BE who make use of acronyms so BEAWARE!
Alternately we can compare & contrast the constructivist approach to teaching verses the teacher centred approach with a little of Gardners multiple intelligence's thrown in for good measure...
Sep 4th 2010, 6:56 am
#14
Shiny Arse Know All
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide, somewhere
Posts: 14,180
Sep 5th 2010, 12:21 pm
#15
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Posts: 120
Re: A view and some advice on the Australian apprenticeship system
Knew it would'nt take long before my bait was taken! 20months to go? Are you sure there will still be an RN after the SDR? At least as I read they scrapped the idea of sharing aircraft carriers with the French!Mon dieu c'est ridicule! Not the old enemy!!!!!!
Definitely got me that last one....????
Oh well back to the ISTAR via the NAFFII and the LUP past the FRV