Very Cold feet

Old Sep 3rd 2006, 7:08 pm
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Default Very Cold feet

I’ve got very cold feet right now.

Since early 1998 I’ve been a computer consultant in a very niche and very well paid marketplace, my work has taken me away from home most of the time and in 1999 we moved house to be relatively near to the in laws, so that I wouldn’t have to worry too much about my family. In 2002 I got tired of this life, and we decided to migrate to Australia for a few years, where there isn’t so much of a travel scene. We duly went to Adelaide in late 2004 where I had been offered a job with a consulting firm.

It all went wrong after three weeks, my mil cried on the phone to my wife and that was effectively that, my wife then refused to settle in any way shape or form and spent most of her time moping about at the house, and obviously the kids didn’t integrate as well as they could have. The main crisis point was when the rental on the property we had left in the UK was due for renewal, and I basically had to decide to not renew it and return home with three months notice. After the decision had been made my wife then fell pregnant, we now have a boy who’s just turned one. She and the other two kids went home in January 2005, and I came home in March.

I was totally devastated, in many ways I feel like I had been totally betrayed and I did find I Australia all the things I was looking for, I worked locally apart from one night away, and the rest of 2005 was complete hell and we came very close to splitting up in September, we just weren’t getting along at all. I am prepared to accept 50% of the blame, but was up against someone who for six months told me to leave every time there was an argument. I went to counselling to try and resolve matters in my own head and was very depressed although the doctor refused to give me anything for it. In the mean time work had pretty much dried up and I was running out of money, so eventually was forced to take a three month contract 200 miles from home. This contract unfortunately extended to ten months and has only just finished and has been the most stressful client I have ever worked at. I was offered a permanent position, but saw immediately the place would eat me alive, so declined it. Getting a perm replacement for me was the reason I ended up there for ten months, people with my skills are hard to come by.

After the major crisis in September when I tried to walk out but couldn’t (I don’t believe men should walk out on their children if they can possibly avoid it), I had a solicitor lined up and simply couldn’t do it. The scenes were highly emotional but a boil was lanced in a way. Things were better thereafter, not brilliant, but liveable, my wife had a complete attitude shift towards me and things were far more workable.

In early 2006 my wife then out of the blue suddenly suggested going back to Australia. I, as you can imagine, couldn’t believe it. She suggested going to the Gold Coast and selling the house any everything. I didn’t really do anything about it for several months; I just kept asking why she would want to do it. The answers were various including the fact that I am very unhappy and stressed, that she would always regret not seeing it through but hated Adelaide and that it would give the children great opportunities in life, including decent schools.

We therefore went on a recce trip over Easter and, as you always do in Aus on holiday, had a brilliant time. In the meantime I had contacted my old employer in Adelaide and to cut a long story short they offered me a job in Brisbane, no problem at all. It’s open and they are being totally flexible on start dates, time off to get things sorted etc.

About 8 weeks ago we decided to sell the house, expecting it to take until Christmas to shift, instead it went in a week and we are moving to a rental property this week. We had provisionally decided to go to Australia in January so that my wife wouldn’t have the long summer holiday alone with the kids.

So now comes the crunch, we’ve sold the house, work has dried up in the UK, it looks like the next place I’ll be is in Poland, all of my contemporaries are leaving the business or indeed the country, one went to Dubai a couple of months ago and another couple are working in France.

I’ve been at home for three weeks and seen just how much my wife rotates her life around her parents, sister and grandmother. I don’t usually see it and I’m now terrified that it’s all going to go wrong if we go again. She hasn’t been able to guarantee that it won’t which is honest, but not much help. My mother things I’m mental to even think about it (wife and mother don’t get along for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the hurt my mother has seen me go through). My wife also doesn’t see it as a permanent move.

Its effectively crunch time, I need to confirm school places in Aus in the next week as well as confirming details with my employer. One plan is to ship most stuff out in October, for me to work in Adelaide for 4 weeks, come back to the UK then back out to Brisbane and line up a rental house etc whilst working then return to the UK for Christmas and all fly out in January. There is also a major deadline of January next year to get my eldest daughter sorted with a decent secondary school.

All the stress of the last two years has given me high blood pressure, sleepless nights and nightmares; I also have most of the symptoms of burnout. Change HAS to come, it’s not an option any more and not just for me.

It boils down to two choices:

1) Do I risk Australia, I love the place as do the kids, I’ve got a job with prospects and training lined up and can afford decent schools etc. But if it goes wrong it will be horrendous, not just financially, but I’m sure our marriage will end, we will lose most of our savings and the kids will be badly affected. It’s also a very stressful thing to do at the best of times.

2) We both agree that we need to move from where we are now; the only decent secondary school doesn’t take kids from my estate any more, so it time to move on. So do I move even closer to the inlaws and change career taking the stress and huge paycut that will go with it. I live in Kent which is a bit of backwater IT wise. Another alternative is going back where we were in 1999, somewhere West of London and again taking a career change.

Anyone got any advice? And sorry this is such a long post…
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 7:18 pm
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

good to get it off your chest and there are many similarities with my own situation ...although havent been working out there yet!

I think if you dont go.....it will always be a case of.....what might have been...to be honest if you dont try going back...it could result in you effectively resenting your wife for making you miss the opportunity!

Personally I think you have nothing to lose by giving it another go - why not agree to give it at least two years...it may be difficult for the first six months for your OH but things should get better!

In fact come to think of it your situation is very similar to mine!

All the best in whatever you decide
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 7:21 pm
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

This is a really honest, brave, well written and candid post.

I can't give you advice as advice is only ever another person's opinion.

It sounds like its crunch time for you and I am very sorry that you feel pushed to make such a decision.

Feel free to PM me if you want a more personal conversation.

BB
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 7:23 pm
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

Originally Posted by BouncingBack
I’ve got very cold feet right now.

Since early 1998 I’ve been a computer consultant in a very niche and very well paid marketplace, my work has taken me away from home most of the time and in 1999 we moved house to be relatively near to the in laws, so that I wouldn’t have to worry too much about my family. In 2002 I got tired of this life, and we decided to migrate to Australia for a few years, where there isn’t so much of a travel scene. We duly went to Adelaide in late 2004 where I had been offered a job with a consulting firm.

It all went wrong after three weeks, my mil cried on the phone to my wife and that was effectively that, my wife then refused to settle in any way shape or form and spent most of her time moping about at the house, and obviously the kids didn’t integrate as well as they could have. The main crisis point was when the rental on the property we had left in the UK was due for renewal, and I basically had to decide to not renew it and return home with three months notice. After the decision had been made my wife then fell pregnant, we now have a boy who’s just turned one. She and the other two kids went home in January 2005, and I came home in March.

I was totally devastated, in many ways I feel like I had been totally betrayed and I did find I Australia all the things I was looking for, I worked locally apart from one night away, and the rest of 2005 was complete hell and we came very close to splitting up in September, we just weren’t getting along at all. I am prepared to accept 50% of the blame, but was up against someone who for six months told me to leave every time there was an argument. I went to counselling to try and resolve matters in my own head and was very depressed although the doctor refused to give me anything for it. In the mean time work had pretty much dried up and I was running out of money, so eventually was forced to take a three month contract 200 miles from home. This contract unfortunately extended to ten months and has only just finished and has been the most stressful client I have ever worked at. I was offered a permanent position, but saw immediately the place would eat me alive, so declined it. Getting a perm replacement for me was the reason I ended up there for ten months, people with my skills are hard to come by.

After the major crisis in September when I tried to walk out but couldn’t (I don’t believe men should walk out on their children if they can possibly avoid it), I had a solicitor lined up and simply couldn’t do it. The scenes were highly emotional but a boil was lanced in a way. Things were better thereafter, not brilliant, but liveable, my wife had a complete attitude shift towards me and things were far more workable.

In early 2006 my wife then out of the blue suddenly suggested going back to Australia. I, as you can imagine, couldn’t believe it. She suggested going to the Gold Coast and selling the house any everything. I didn’t really do anything about it for several months; I just kept asking why she would want to do it. The answers were various including the fact that I am very unhappy and stressed, that she would always regret not seeing it through but hated Adelaide and that it would give the children great opportunities in life, including decent schools.

We therefore went on a recce trip over Easter and, as you always do in Aus on holiday, had a brilliant time. In the meantime I had contacted my old employer in Adelaide and to cut a long story short they offered me a job in Brisbane, no problem at all. It’s open and they are being totally flexible on start dates, time off to get things sorted etc.

About 8 weeks ago we decided to sell the house, expecting it to take until Christmas to shift, instead it went in a week and we are moving to a rental property this week. We had provisionally decided to go to Australia in January so that my wife wouldn’t have the long summer holiday alone with the kids.

So now comes the crunch, we’ve sold the house, work has dried up in the UK, it looks like the next place I’ll be is in Poland, all of my contemporaries are leaving the business or indeed the country, one went to Dubai a couple of months ago and another couple are working in France.

I’ve been at home for three weeks and seen just how much my wife rotates her life around her parents, sister and grandmother. I don’t usually see it and I’m now terrified that it’s all going to go wrong if we go again. She hasn’t been able to guarantee that it won’t which is honest, but not much help. My mother things I’m mental to even think about it (wife and mother don’t get along for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the hurt my mother has seen me go through). My wife also doesn’t see it as a permanent move.

Its effectively crunch time, I need to confirm school places in Aus in the next week as well as confirming details with my employer. One plan is to ship most stuff out in October, for me to work in Adelaide for 4 weeks, come back to the UK then back out to Brisbane and line up a rental house etc whilst working then return to the UK for Christmas and all fly out in January. There is also a major deadline of January next year to get my eldest daughter sorted with a decent secondary school.

All the stress of the last two years has given me high blood pressure, sleepless nights and nightmares; I also have most of the symptoms of burnout. Change HAS to come, it’s not an option any more and not just for me.

It boils down to two choices:

1) Do I risk Australia, I love the place as do the kids, I’ve got a job with prospects and training lined up and can afford decent schools etc. But if it goes wrong it will be horrendous, not just financially, but I’m sure our marriage will end, we will lose most of our savings and the kids will be badly affected. It’s also a very stressful thing to do at the best of times.

2) We both agree that we need to move from where we are now; the only decent secondary school doesn’t take kids from my estate any more, so it time to move on. So do I move even closer to the inlaws and change career taking the stress and huge paycut that will go with it. I live in Kent which is a bit of backwater IT wise. Another alternative is going back where we were in 1999, somewhere West of London and again taking a career change.

Anyone got any advice? And sorry this is such a long post…

Mate i really do feel for you but if i have read it right your choices seam to be Poland or OZ, its a no brainer for me!
maybe your wife is now ready you dont know!
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 7:26 pm
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

So far in my opinion, you have done everything to please everyone else EXCEPT yourself.

You have made yourself ill over this and at the end of the day, once your health goes, you have lost more than anything else really.

You moved back to save your marriage and for your wife.

Now your wife wants to move back but admits it is only temporary and also admits that she may feel the same as before and you will be expected to go back again and step into the 'shoes' of the workplace that made you so ill.

What do YOU want? Because you sound like a man on the edge and for once, just once, you need to do something for you.

Relationships take commitment from both sides. My husband has made sacrifices for various training/jobs I have done in my life and we have discussed this, if I wanted to come back to the UK once in Oz and he doesn't, then I do so alone.

The trouble is with your situation, is you have kiddies and even if they love Australia, the whole family, the whole decision will still belong to your wife. If you are all loving the life and she decides to come back, she will take you all back.

Which means you cannot with that in mind, make plans for the future.

I reckon if your marriage is strong enough, it will survive this move and you will both work together and pull in the same direction to give Australia your full commitment.

Because unless you do give it 110 percent, you can't expect much back.

But, if your wife wants to come back and as you say, it will be the end of your marriage, then I reckon what will be will be.

You have made your sacrifices in your life, your health being one of them. Tough as it sounds, I would give Australia a try and take one day at a time.

Lay the cards on the table and tell her how you are feeling.

If your marriage is meant to last, then it will and even if you did come back to the UK because she wanted to, then you know within yourself what it will do to you.

One life, your health and very little chance to sort things out when you are too sick to do so.

Good luck.

Sam
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 7:49 pm
  #6  
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

A very interesting, candid post.

At least you recognise there are issues, and are thinking it through, and no doubt putting pen to paper like this might help, if nothing else to get it on your chest.

From looking at your situation, it looks like by moving to Oz, you would gain in many respects. You would have a good job, a good lifestyle, a better life for your kids, and it sounds like you would be happier there. The worry seems to be that your wife might feel the same way as she did before, and leave again, to return to the UK, and thus if you remained in Oz you would not only lose your wife but also your kids. It is totally reasnable for you to be having the doubts you are having, i certainly would.

My personal take on it, is that if you stay in the UK, you will have no job prospects, may have to move, you could potentially be miserable, and always be asking yourself "what if?" You are the only person who can awnser this question, but if you are having maritial difficulties, are you any more likely to be able to make it succeed by staying in the UK? It strikes me, that if you are having relationship problems, these issues will either stay with you in the UK, or travel with you to Oz, wherever you decide to go. Therefore, i personally would not turn down the oppertunity of Oz on the basis that my marriage might fall apart as a result of it, because i think that if it is likely to fall apart in Oz, it may well fall apart in the UK, Oz might just accelerate the process. At least though if it falls apart in Oz, you are in a place where you want to be, rather than in the UK where you may not want to be, having passed up an amazing oppertunity. The difficulty i would imagine you face with this, is that if the wife leaves Oz, the kids may go, then you have a real problem. I am not a parent so cannot understand parental bonds in the same way you can, but i imagine you would not want to be seperated from your kids. If you did not have kids it would probably be a much easier decision for you to make.

I think if i were in your shoes, i would be thinking along the lines that if i did decide to go back to Oz, it would be permanantly, or not at all.
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 8:17 pm
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

Originally Posted by R.Soper
The difficulty i would imagine you face with this, is that if the wife leaves Oz, the kids may go, then you have a real problem. I am not a parent so cannot understand parental bonds in the same way you can, but i imagine you would not want to be seperated from your kids. If you did not have kids it would probably be a much easier decision for you to make.
Get advice on this subject from an Australian family lawyer, but as I understand it, once the children become settled in Australia the wife would not have the right to take them back to the United Kingdom without permission of the other parent or the Australian family courts.
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 8:34 pm
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

blimey ... and ithought i had a difficult life!!

dont really know what to advise ... can only give you a kind of ''what id do'' .

so far you have both identified what the main problem with moving to aus is, and thats the home/people-sickness your wife suffers. As you so obviously want to go back to aus, and at the end of the day why not? then you need to set yourselves a time frame..a kind of 'what to do if' plan , and list what the consequences of your actions will be.
eg,
main thing; selling home in uk. a) will this give you a nice amount of cash to take with you? if so will this be enough to pay for a 6 monthly/yearly visit back to the uk for your wife and perhaps your youngest? Instead of putting down a big deposit on a house, use the money to pay for trips back home. b) will it cut the ties a bit more for your wife? ... will it make it more difficult for her to say 'lets go home' as there wont be that nest waiting for her? c) can you buy when you get to aus? allowing her to establish another home for you all may just keep her busy enough to help her settle once she has established her own home and routine it may help.
next thing; what are your options re your visa? how much longer do you have left before it expires (or whatever it is they do if you dont move within the 5 years!) what if you set yourselves a time frame to stay until you are eligable for citizenship, then return to the uk and look at returning to aus a couple of years down the line?
planning; set yourselves a realistic time frame - you need to really sit down together and work it out on paper ALL eventualities. If she says she cant guarantee she wont feel like she did, how long is she willing to give it? she needs to be aware of the consequences of wanting to go home again within the few months like last time... get her family/friends involved in the planning too - get them to give her definates on when they can come and visit, if at all. Get a date established to look at how things are going ... eg 3 months in, if shes unhappy, would going elsewhere (apart from home!) in aus be worth a try? 6 months in, if things are seriously going arse up - what will you do then? return to uk? she goes back to uk, you stay in aus? Establish how this would make YOU feel ... and what the outcomes may be - if the resentment is already seeded, it will only get worse - she may not want to risk losing her husband in a half hearted attempt at pleasing you (did that make sense?).

but think of yourself ... its your life too. and your childrens...she has to consider what it is doing to them to keep pingponging to aus with her getting so distraught at being away from her family.

At the end of the day, only you know if your marriage is strong enough to survive this ... and i dont envy you one bit.
good luck ... follow your heart and your head on this one.

sue x
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 8:35 pm
  #9  
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

BB, I agree completely with everything Professional Princess said so I'm afraid I've no furter pearls of wisdom for you. Just wanted to send you a cyber hug. Sounds like you need it.

Just a thought - might be useful if your wife were to read this.

I sincerely hope for all your sakes that you work out what's best.

Gill
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 8:42 pm
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

Gosh, for anyone who's gone through the husband travelling all the time scenario, which I did, and the subsequent divorce, your post made very painful reading, and I really feel for you. The one question I'd ask you is, if you ended up alone after all this, where would you rather be? Then go for that option, and try and make it work as if you are going to all stay together. With all due respect, your wife needs to focus more now on you and the family you have, not her birth family. If she genuinely has goodwill about giving you a chance and making up for what has happened, I hope she will be able to do this, and reassure you that you and your wellbeing are important to her.

Lots of luck
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 9:23 pm
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

What an honest and genuine post. It is the biggest dilema and there is only you who can decide what to do. I seriously hope that whatever you choose brings the happiness that you deserve.
J x
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 9:33 pm
  #12  
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

Originally Posted by BouncingBack
I’ve got very cold feet right now.

Since early 1998 I’ve been a computer consultant in a very niche and very well paid marketplace, my work has taken me away from home most of the time and in 1999 we moved house to be relatively near to the in laws, so that I wouldn’t have to worry too much about my family...


It boils down to two choices:

1) Do I risk Australia, I love the place as do the kids, I’ve got a job with prospects and training lined up and can afford decent schools etc. But if it goes wrong it will be horrendous, not just financially, but I’m sure our marriage will end, we will lose most of our savings and the kids will be badly affected. It’s also a very stressful thing to do at the best of times.

2) We both agree that we need to move from where we are now; the only decent secondary school doesn’t take kids from my estate any more, so it time to move on. So do I move even closer to the inlaws and change career taking the stress and huge paycut that will go with it. I live in Kent which is a bit of backwater IT wise. Another alternative is going back where we were in 1999, somewhere West of London and again taking a career change.

Anyone got any advice? And sorry this is such a long post…
Neither. You need option 3) try and get your relationship sorted out.

The only person who seems to know what they are talking about in your email is your mother.

If you believe that going to Oz is a viable option while your relationship is in its current shaky state you are deluding yourself. I'm hardly surprised that you have such a shaky relationship, given the amount of time that you have spent away from home in the past. And you wish to add to the stress by (potentially) replaying what happened in 2004/05? And this action based on a very short stay in Adelaide and a trip to the Gold Coast?

Have you lost control of your senses?


Part of your email is unconvincing. Especially the part about the "contract unfortunately extended to ten months". The way you word it suggests that you had little say in the issue; you didn't. You could have finished after 3 months.

As for Brisbane or Adelaide; they are hardly epicentres of IT demand. Your job with the consultancy company could immediately go in a downturn. And most consultancy companies expect you to be willing to travel - and remember Oz is ~30 times larger than England.

Time for you to be a man, buddy.

It's simple. Concentrate on getting your relationship sorted first or kiss it goodbye - either here or 11,000 miles away.
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 10:15 pm
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

Why does your wife want to go back to OZ when she hated it the first time?
Even if she likes Brisbane more then Adelaide won't she still get homesick again and miss her mother and friends. Just hope she does'nt tell you she wants to move back to the UK again after only a few months in Brisbane.
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 10:15 pm
  #14  
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

Originally Posted by MikeStanton
Neither. You need option 3) try and get your relationship sorted out.


It's simple. Concentrate on getting your relationship sorted first or kiss it goodbye - either here or 11,000 miles away.

I'm with Mike on this one.
Unless you try to sort this out with your wife you are in a no win situation in terms of where you end up living/settling. The stress of wherever you decide to move to will put intolerable strain on what is an already fragile relationship. Would she go to couple counselling with you ? You need to discuss what you have written in your original post with her, and be open and honest about your fears and worries.
Good luck - I hope you can find some kind of peace within yourself
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Old Sep 3rd 2006, 10:20 pm
  #15  
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Default Re: Very Cold feet

Dear all, many thanks for all of your replies. It gives me something to think about.

Interesting post from MikeStanton, Its pretty much the same conclusions I've come to myself, except, I have do option 1 or 2 or run out of time and or money, there are issues beyond me and the missus here, if there weren't it would be easy! There are deadlines in life:

1) Got to get my daughter sorted in a decent school by Jan 07 for a start in Sep 07.
2) Got to be out of the rental property by Feb 26 07, although this can probably be extended.
3) The babies visa needs to be validated by May 07
4) Got to confirm the school placement in Aus by the 13th September, including payment, its $800, so will probably pay that to be safe.

Had quite a frank discussion with the wife this evening, it hasn't really got as far as a conclusion, but its a start. Its in a kind of catch 22 situation, I don't have a 100% trust that she is going to see it through, and all the time I don't trust her she ain't gonna go. I think both points are equally valid.

A quick couple of points:

"contract unfortunately extended to ten months". The way you word it suggests that you had little say in the issue; you didn't. You could have finished after 3 months.

Sadly no, my business is incredibly niche, everyone pretty much knows everyone else. You drop a client in the s&*e, which is what I would have been doing, word gets around very fast and any reputation is in tatters. Bad reptuation = no work. You kind of get locked in.

I freely admit that Brisbane and Adelaide are not exactly consulting hothouses and that travel is always a part of the game, but in Australia the game is slightly different, the distances are indeed vast, but generally speaking most activity takes place in very small areas. A quite radical difference to Europe, of the 1.5 million people who live in SA, 1 million are in Adelaide. In the six months I was there, out of my team of four people, I spent one night away near Sydney, another guy spent two weeks in Queensland and another guy did a week on a Pacific Island. There are many many Aussie consultants I know, and generally speaking they confirm this, if you are based in Brisbane, 90% of what you do is in Brisbane. It is for exactly that reason that my former employer has opened a branch office with 17 consultants in Brisbane, theres another in Melbourne and soon will be others in Sydney and Perth. 70%-80% of the time we were working remotely.

Here's where it gets complicated. I work on a product called JD Edwards EnterpriseOne. I do the technical stuff in lifecycle implementations. Most people even in IT haven't got the faintest idea what I do, like I said, its niche. JD Edwards was purchased by Peoplesoft who were then subject to a hostile takeover bid from Oracle. Oracle, for reasons best known to themselves are not selling JDE in the UK. Elsewhere its a different story, the product IS coming to the end of its life, but the product is still being actively sold around the world, particularly in the US and Australia where it has always been popular. My prospective employer will be training me to be a technical project manager, something that I can easily transfer elsewhere in the UK. I thought that my skills were readily transferable for reasonable money now, but a number of applications for jobs last year proved me wrong, out of about 6 not one even came back to me.

Last edited by BouncingBack; Sep 3rd 2006 at 10:22 pm.
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