Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Australia
Reload this Page >

UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Old Apr 11th 2013, 1:49 pm
  #91  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 15
new-leaf is just really nicenew-leaf is just really nicenew-leaf is just really nicenew-leaf is just really nicenew-leaf is just really nicenew-leaf is just really nicenew-leaf is just really nicenew-leaf is just really nice
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts View Post
If it was left to six year olds to decide for themselves whether they want to learn or play in the sandpit well guess what..
Its a good thing that they aren't left alone then.

It is all these crackpot ideas about education, like letting children "choose to learn" that has led to the deterioration of standards in recent decades.
Sorry, i couldn't leave this bit alone.

First off, just because something isn't "normal" in your opinion doesn't make it crazy or crackpot.

As Albert Einstein said

Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
The deterioration of standards have come in the form of the UK league tables.

"Juking the stats" is what its called and the video link below describes what I've seen in UK schools from teachers whether its them talking about it during breaks or actively in the classroom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ogxZxu6cjM

Last edited by new-leaf; Apr 11th 2013 at 2:18 pm.
new-leaf is offline  
Old Apr 11th 2013, 9:07 pm
  #92  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Bermudashorts's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 14,284
Bermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
It depends on the student. For those who prefer to be taught by rote and find they achieve more that way, then chances are they are a formal learner. If the preferred method is more "hands on", and learning in a more "organic" rather than organised way then chances are they are an informal learner.

Personally, I lean more towards informal learning and lessons by rote would be a nightmare for me - and indeed were for those classes at school that went that way.

Neither way is right or wrong by themselves, they're just right or wrong for particular people. Unfortunately school is often a "one size fits all" approach, and this can be very unhelpful.
And history has shown that old methods work best on the whole and lead to a better educated general population. Now we have falling standards, school leavers that cannot add up and young teachers that cannot even spell, probably because they never did spelling tests or never had their spelling corrected.

No need to rip up old methods because a minority don't like structure or tests or whatever. Exams have also been shown time and time again to be an excellent indication of understanding. In my years od academia I do not recall a single time when the best results at exams were not achieved by those that demonstrated the best understanding of the topics during the course of the year.
Bermudashorts is offline  
Old Apr 11th 2013, 9:10 pm
  #93  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Bermudashorts's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 14,284
Bermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by new-leaf View Post
Its a good thing that they aren't left alone then.



Sorry, i couldn't leave this bit alone.

First off, just because something isn't "normal" in your opinion doesn't make it crazy or crackpot.

Well first off I haven't said it was crackpot because it is not "normal" in my opinion. I just said it was crackpot.

Oh and I didn't say anything about children being left alone either, I said children being left to decide for themselves.

If you want a debate, you really are going to have to comment on what I have said, not make things up.

Last edited by Bermudashorts; Apr 11th 2013 at 9:18 pm.
Bermudashorts is offline  
Old Apr 11th 2013, 9:17 pm
  #94  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,396
roaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts View Post
No need to rip up old methods because a minority don't like structure or tests or whatever.
It's nothing to do with a "minority not liking structure or tests", it's to do with how different people learn in different ways.
roaringmouse is offline  
Old Apr 11th 2013, 11:42 pm
  #95  
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Zen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Must say I'm with BS on this one. There has been a demonstrable, clear drop in standards over the last 30 odd years, exactly corresponding to innovations in education methods.

In the 1950s, FE students in English learnt Chaucer, Byron, Wordsworth, Hardy, Bacon, Milton, Marlowe, Shakespeare and many others. By the 1990s university lecturers were complaining that English students were arriving without having read any literature pre-20th century except for a couple of Shakespeare plays.

You only have to read older literature to see the decay. I am reading Jane Austen at the moment, on my wife's recommendation (you guessed it, my comprehensive never taught me anything like this), and I am astonished at the articulacy. Contemporary writing is very childish in comparison, even by respected authors.
Zen10 is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 12:34 am
  #96  
Newlywed
 
Dorothy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,933
Dorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
Must say I'm with BS on this one. There has been a demonstrable, clear drop in standards over the last 30 odd years, exactly corresponding to innovations in education methods.

In the 1950s, FE students in English learnt Chaucer, Byron, Wordsworth, Hardy, Bacon, Milton, Marlowe, Shakespeare and many others. By the 1990s university lecturers were complaining that English students were arriving without having read any literature pre-20th century except for a couple of Shakespeare plays.

You only have to read older literature to see the decay. I am reading Jane Austen at the moment, on my wife's recommendation (you guessed it, my comprehensive never taught me anything like this), and I am astonished at the articulacy. Contemporary writing is very childish in comparison, even by respected authors.
You're right, Zen. Look at the number of posters on here, native English speakers, who can't understand simple grammar. The amount of apostrophe abuse by people is appalling. I actually had to correct one of my university lecturers on this not long ago. One of the questions in a tutorial was a medication calculation..."If Sandra take's 150 mg of aspirin per day and she has a prescription for 50 100 mg tablets, how many day's will her prescription last?"

I know I sound like my parents, but back in my day () spelling and grammar were taught in primary school and reinforced throughout high school.
Dorothy is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 12:42 am
  #97  
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Zen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
You're right, Zen. Look at the number of posters on here, native English speakers, who can't understand simple grammar. The amount of apostrophe abuse by people is appalling. I actually had to correct one of my university lecturers on this not long ago. One of the questions in a tutorial was a medication calculation..."If Sandra take's 150 mg of aspirin per day and she has a prescription for 50 100 mg tablets, how many day's will her prescription last?"

I know I sound like my parents, but back in my day () spelling and grammar were taught in primary school and reinforced throughout high school.
I quite agree, Dorothy. Your example of the university tutorial is pretty shocking. I saw a similar error on a sign advertising a high school here in Adelaide - advertising a high school! When I first starting marking university papers, many years ago now, I asked if I should mark down for mistakes in grammar and spelling, and I was told "no", not unless they were absolutely appalling and throughout the whole piece. So you're right to say these things are not enforced any more.
Zen10 is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:01 am
  #98  
has lost The Game
 
Swerv-o's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Chippendale, Sydney
Posts: 8,734
Swerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
You're right, Zen. Look at the number of posters on here, native English speakers, who can't understand simple grammar. The amount of apostrophe abuse by people is appalling. I actually had to correct one of my university lecturers on this not long ago. One of the questions in a tutorial was a medication calculation..."If Sandra take's 150 mg of aspirin per day and she has a prescription for 50 100 mg tablets, how many day's will her prescription last?"

I know I sound like my parents, but back in my day () spelling and grammar were taught in primary school and reinforced throughout high school.

This is very true - The number of people who think that 'being' and 'been' are interchangeable is definitely on the rise. The same with confusion over 'there' and 'their'.


S
Swerv-o is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:06 am
  #99  
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Zen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Swerv-o View Post
This is very true - The number of people who think that 'being' and 'been' are interchangeable is definitely on the rise. The same with confusion over 'there' and 'their'.


S
It's not impossible to make these mistakes in writing even if you well know the difference. When I proof-read something I have written I often find howlers in there, but that's because you write fast and "in your mind". The failure of a poor education is not being able to know you have made these errors and correct them when you read through your work, rather than never making them in the first place.

The evidence for me is in the way I was taught modern languages. French was taught by a strict woman, absolutely no-nonsense at all, rote, and today I can speak French quite well, read novels, etc. The woman who taught German was more of a "whatever floats your boat" kind, with no control over the class. My parents had to hire a private tutor to get me through the exam, and today I can only say a few basic sentences.
Zen10 is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:12 am
  #100  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Sally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Rote learning definitely has its place.

I was very shocked by my kids' poor grasp of times tables and French verbs. I can call them to mind instantly after 35-odd years while they're going derr...derr...

I am a qualified FE lecturer and fully agree that everyone learns in different ways, and like to see a variety of methods used. However, declining standards in the basics do horrify me.
Sally Redux is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:23 am
  #101  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,396
roaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
Must say I'm with BS on this one. There has been a demonstrable, clear drop in standards over the last 30 odd years, exactly corresponding to innovations in education methods.
There are also other factors to consider for that time period.
roaringmouse is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:25 am
  #102  
has lost The Game
 
Swerv-o's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Chippendale, Sydney
Posts: 8,734
Swerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond reputeSwerv-o has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
It's not impossible to make these mistakes in writing even if you well know the difference. When I proof-read something I have written I often find howlers in there, but that's because you write fast and "in your mind". The failure of a poor education is not being able to know you have made these errors and correct them when you read through your work, rather than never making them in the first place.

The evidence for me is in the way I was taught modern languages. French was taught by a strict woman, absolutely no-nonsense at all, rote, and today I can speak French quite well, read novels, etc. The woman who taught German was more of a "whatever floats your boat" kind, with no control over the class. My parents had to hire a private tutor to get me through the exam, and today I can only say a few basic sentences.

Sorry that's what I meant - people who are unable to identify the difference between these words - who think that they swap them around at will.


S
Swerv-o is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:28 am
  #103  
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Zen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
Rote learning definitely has its place.

I was very shocked by my kids' poor grasp of times tables and French verbs. I can call them to mind instantly after 35-odd years while they're going derr...derr...

I am a qualified FE lecturer and fully agree that everyone learns in different ways, and like to see a variety of methods used. However, declining standards in the basics do horrify me.
I was never taught the times-table and I struggle with it to this day. I'm not too bad at algebra, if I sit down and think about it, and I can do long division but that is because I taught myself how to do it. My mother can beat me on any multiplication because she knows the times table, taught by rote.

So I vote for rote!
Zen10 is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:30 am
  #104  
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Zen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Swerv-o View Post
Sorry that's what I meant - people who are unable to identify the difference between these words - who think that they swap them around at will.


S
Oh sure - they're, there, their. I've even seen theyr'e a few times. It's its. Formerly, formally.
Zen10 is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:41 am
  #105  
Proudly Deplorable
 
Amazulu's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 23,935
Amazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Rote learning has it's place - especially for the basics. My son's school are big on it.

Many Asian countries use rote learning (recently read stuff about India) for everything. That's not a good idea.
Amazulu is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.